winninguglyin83 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 And in my opinion, they were much, much too nice. Thoughts? I like the idea of pursuing Varitek. Not so much the idea of playing Everett in RF next year. September 14, 2004 Prospectus Triple Play Chicago White Sox, Oakland Athletics, Philadelphia Phillies Baseball Prospectus Printer- friendly Chicago White Sox Wait Till Next Year: For the third straight year, it looks like the White Sox will finish second behind the Twins, once again out of the race well before the season wraps up Is 2005 the year that the Sox finally get over the Twin Cities hump? Looking ahead to the likely starting roster is a good way to find out. C: Having swapped out young and developing Miguel Olivo in the Freddy Garcia deal, the White Sox are left to choose between the not-as-young and inadequate Ben Davis and picking up the old and inadequate Sandy Alomar's option for 2005. Neither choice is terribly appealing and, aside from passable options Jason Varitek and Damian Miller, nor is the free-agent market. With no players in the farm system who could reasonably be considered, the Sox should consider making a small trade for a high-risk, high-reward player or letting capable backup Jamie Burke take the full-time job. 1B: Paul Konerko has been the best first baseman in the AL this year and, despite concerns over his slump last year, there's no reason to think he won't be very good next year as well. Given the size of the checks he will be cashing, that's a good thing. 2B: Some might call Juan Uribe a revelation. Some might call him a fluke. The truth lies, as it does so often, in between. Uribe's .274/.319/.491 season has been highlighted by 19 home runs and 34 doubles and triples, but his walk rate is still very low and he's cooled significantly after his hot start to the season. With four years' experience, he will head to arbitration where his power output will massively inflate his bargain basement $350,000 salary. With very few better options available to the White Sox (Roberto Alomar notwithstanding), bringing Uribe back for another year to see if he can prove he is not a fluke is a risk worth taking. He is still just 25 years old. SS: Here at Baseball Prospectus, we often point out players whose value is largely tied to their batting average; we also like to point to the high volatility of batting average from year to year. In Jose Valentin's case, however, these lessons do not apply. While Valentin may look somewhat unlucky, posting a .214/.284/.464 line with a solid .250 isolated power, his batting average has declined every year he's been with the White Sox, and it didn't start out all that high. A career .244 hitter with a .321 OBP, Valentin's value is entirely tied up in his power numbers, and at a month shy of 35, he is likely at the tail end of his career. A free agent, the White Sox would be wise to let him sign elsewhere, perhaps picking up one of the many younger options on the market. We would have recommended a one-year stopgap solution while prospect Michael Morse develops, but he was dealt to Seattle in the Garcia deal. Stop us when you sense a pattern. 3B: Third base has become one of the most talent-rich positions in the AL over the past few years. With players like Alex Rodriguez, Eric Chavez, Melvin Mora, Hank Blalock, Bill Mueller and what's left of Troy Glaus manning hot corners around the league, the standard for third basemen has risen. Joe Crede has not. The owner of a .303 career OBP and lacking much power, Crede will be heading to arbitration. His service time and lack of performance will likely keep his salary low, but that still doesn't solve the problem of his being a player who can't hit. LF: Carlos Lee is currently third in VORP for AL left fielders after being fourth and fifth the previous two years. He is locked up for next year at $8 million; while that is not a bargain, it is certainly a good investment in a younger player who's proved himself for several years. CF: Aaron Rowand has been a pleasant surprise for the Sox this season, hitting a robust .320/.373/.559 in his age-27 season. Headed to arbitration, he'll likely command a passable salary that will accommodate both him and Sox. Though a slight downturn from his batting average-induced stardom is likely, Rowand will be a good player in center field next year. RF: With Carl Everett signed for next year at $4 million, the Sox already have a solid option in right as well as capable backups in Joe Borchard and Ross Gload. However, this is another position in which the Sox had a solid in-house option in BP's #2 prospect Jeremy Reed. While much of Reed's value in 2003 was in his ridiculous batting average, he was still a cheap, legitimate option in right that would have given the Sox $4 million to use elsewhere. DH: Frank Thomas is still one of the best pure hitters in the game and still virtually the definition of designated hitter. The Sox's biggest questions, at least in the hitting department, are shortstop, second base and catcher. While the pickings are slim at catcher for free agents, the Sox should be able to scrape up a decent shortstop and wouldn't be terribly ill-advised to stick with Uribe at second base for one more well-priced year. Could picking up a free-agent catcher like Varitek finally put the Sox over the top? Given how little production they've gotten from the position the past three years, that seems like one good way to improve the offense. 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Hatchetman Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I saw that and I agree with most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I enjoy the article. Points out the obvious weaknesses and what a lot of us think. Hopefully we are players for a few good FA's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 The forgot about Willie Harris. They are too stupid to realiaze that SS is Juan Uribe's next year and Willie Harris is the second basemen. So called expects my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 The forgot about Willie Harris. They are too stupid to realiaze that SS is Juan Uribe's next year and Willie Harris is the second basemen. So called expects my ass. That may be what you want, but I seriously doubt it will happen that way (Uribe fulltime at SS and Harris at 2B). Are you not listening to Guillen criticizing Harris' deficiencies and inconsistencies, and Guillen stating that Uribe is not ready to be a full time SS? He's made statements on both players several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 we need upgrades at every infield position outside of Konerko. The clock is running out on Crede's slow bat. I'd be willing to give Uribe a chance. Harris isn't the answer. We need to find a mid-priced free agent who can fill a gap until we have somebody ready at third (Fields or Schnurstein) or second (?????). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 With 14 million due from Magglio leaving, Varitek wouldn't be a bad pickup at roughly 8.5 million a year. But will 5.5 million buy yourself a good pitcher? Very doubtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 we need upgrades at every infield position outside of Konerko. The clock is running out on Crede's slow bat. I'd be willing to give Uribe a chance. Harris isn't the answer. We need to find a mid-priced free agent who can fill a gap until we have somebody ready at third (Fields or Schnurstein) or second (?????). The Sox could always steal away the Twins left side of the infield. I think Guzman could be an option at SS(although I would rather try and trade for Furcal). The Sox could also sign Koskie for say 2 years(maybe with an option for a 3rd). While I would love to get Varitek, the price is going to be too high. He is by far the best catcher on the market, which means most big market teams will be after him. The Sox need to realize that you don't need an AS at every position. Besides, I like what I have seen from Davis and Burke in the 2nd half so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 The Red Sox first order of business is going to resign Varitek. Dealing Nomar helped that. Varitek is the heart of that franchise. He IS Boston...like Trot Nixon and Kevin Millar. Pedro is too volatile and Manny will always be a Yankee. We aren't getting Varitek. If we do, I'll eat this thread... :puke Don't want Guzman, but I like the idea of Furcal. I'll take Koskie, but only if he doesn't get hurt. So work on that Corey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 With 14 million due from Magglio leaving, Varitek wouldn't be a bad pickup at roughly 8.5 million a year. But will 5.5 million buy yourself a good pitcher? Very doubtful. Depends on who you consider a good pitcher. It wouldn't surprise me if that got us Radke or Ortiz, to be honest. With the depth of starting pitchers this year in the FA market, there will be several who feel they get short-changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 We don't need an expensive catcher at the plate in fact we don't even need a good team to win this division. Just solid pitching and scrappy players. P.S. Baseball prospectus doesn't sound like it likes Kenny Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Joe Borchard a "capable replacement." GMAFB. Huge loss in credibility points with me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I also didn't really like them talking about our catcher spot, but I don't really have a beef with anything else in the article. They called Ben Davis, compared to Miguel Olivo, 'inadequate and not-as-young'. Isn't Davis only one year older than Olivo? And, Davis is known as calling a better game than Olivo, yet I don't know if stats could back me up on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 With 14 million due from Magglio leaving, Varitek wouldn't be a bad pickup at roughly 8.5 million a year. But will 5.5 million buy yourself a good pitcher? Very doubtful. I think we have already spent the magglio money on garcia, theres not going to be enough for a great catcher. You can get a decent middle infielder though with the money left over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 don't forget the Jose, Jose, Jose money. And it's a shame we don't have the Carl Everett money to spend. Or one of the five prospects we paid for him. That's why Baseball Prospectus thinks KW is the village idiot I heard KW took batting practice last night. Maybe he's coming back to play RF. He could probably hit better than Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I also didn't really like them talking about our catcher spot, but I don't really have a beef with anything else in the article. They called Ben Davis, compared to Miguel Olivo, 'inadequate and not-as-young'. Isn't Davis only one year older than Olivo? And, Davis is known as calling a better game than Olivo, yet I don't know if stats could back me up on that. While no one else was watching Ben Davis has slumped considerably back towards earth. Are we still feeling as secure about our catching position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 With 14 million due from Magglio leaving, Varitek wouldn't be a bad pickup at roughly 8.5 million a year. But will 5.5 million buy yourself a good pitcher? Very doubtful. Agreed, while Varitek would certainly be a nice addition, Boston will do everything they can to hold onto him, he's the so called "glue" that holds that team together. I can easily put up with Ben Davis and Jamie Burke rotating at catcher for next season, while we put the money where it's more needed in the rotation, the bullpen, and the SS and 3B positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 I just remember how valuable Carlton Fisk was to have around. I can't see Varitek coming to Chicago. But it would be nice if we have a Top 10 catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 While no one else was watching Ben Davis has slumped considerably back towards earth. Are we still feeling as secure about our catching position? While I don't feel that are catching position is much better than average, there aren't many options via the free agent market that I'd like to persue (Varitek being the only one, but I don't feel that he's worth the six-eight million he could get). I feel Davis/Burke can hit .250 or so for this team, and both are well liked by the pitchers; plus, both call a good game and are solid behind the plate. I'll say this - if we're relying on catcher for our offense, we're going to be in a lot of trouble next season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I also didn't really like them talking about our catcher spot, but I don't really have a beef with anything else in the article. They called Ben Davis, compared to Miguel Olivo, 'inadequate and not-as-young'. Isn't Davis only one year older than Olivo? And, Davis is known as calling a better game than Olivo, yet I don't know if stats could back me up on that. They don't. This season's catchers ERA from White Sox Game Notes: _Era Catcher 4.90 Alomar 4.62 Burke 5.39 Davis 4.66 Olivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I heard KW took batting practice last night. Maybe he's coming back to play RF. He could probably hit better than Borchard. KW was a career .218 hitter... Borchard is a career .170 hitter... I guess we know what kenny see's in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 anyone notice the "paul konerko best 1b in the league"? WHY TRADE HIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 anyone notice the "paul konerko best 1b in the league"? WHY TRADE HIM? Because he's a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Because he's a DH. Paul Konerko has a fantasic glove at 1B. What about that makes him a DH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Paul Konerko has a fantasic glove at 1B. What about that makes him a DH? I highly doubt Konerko has every recieved a Gold Glove Vote from anyone other than his mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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