santo=dorf Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oD...v=tsn&type=lgns The White Sox likely will pursue Beltran if they lose RF Magglio Ordonez as a free agent, but would need to move LF Carlos Lee or 1B Paul Konerko to create enough flexibility to address other needs. The Phillies, who also covet Beltran, want to re-sign Milton and add another starting pitcher, plus address their bullpen. . . . Isn't Carlos changing agents this offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oD...v=tsn&type=lgns Isn't Carlos changing agents this offseason? I thought I saw he was dumping Borass somewhere? Anyone still got a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 As much as I would like this to happen...I just don't see it. It only solves one problem and handcuffs KW to do much more, i.e. another SP, closer, SS, etc. NOw, if the BoSox wanted him, we could trade for unfrozen caveman center fielder Johnny Damon and maybe a Kevin Youkilis or Bill Mueller...one never knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I remember reading that about his agent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 New York Post reported earlier this month that hey may switch agents, from Boras to Alan Nero. He also met with Boras a week or so ago to talk about his free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 As much as I would like this to happen...I just don't see it. It only solves one problem and handcuffs KW to do much more, i.e. another SP, closer, SS, etc. NOw, if the BoSox wanted him, we could trade for unfrozen caveman center fielder Johnny Damon and maybe a Kevin Youkilis or Bill Mueller...one never knows. Getting Damon and Mueller is too much to even dream about. I know some folks here don't like Damon too much, but I'd like VERY much to have him leading off. He's worth moving Aaron to RF for, IMO. And Mueller is WAY better than Crede, he's a true KW-style "grinder". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valponick Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 As much as I would like this to happen...I just don't see it. It only solves one problem and handcuffs KW to do much more, i.e. another SP, closer, SS, etc. NOw, if the BoSox wanted him, we could trade for unfrozen caveman center fielder Johnny Damon and maybe a Kevin Youkilis or Bill Mueller...one never knows. I disagree. I think getting Beltran solves more than just one problem. It gives us the HR production we would lose by trading PK, it gives us a guaranteed 40 SB and a gold glove caliber CF. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to sign Beltran and still go after a frontline starter but I think you have to at least make a play for him because it is unlikely any of the top starters are going to want to pitch at the Cell. Could you imagine an outfield of Lee, Beltran and Rowand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I disagree. I think getting Beltran solves more than just one problem. It gives us the HR production we would lose by trading PK, it gives us a guaranteed 40 SB and a gold glove caliber CF. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to sign Beltran and still go after a frontline starter but I think you have to at least make a play for him because it is unlikely any of the top starters are going to want to pitch at the Cell. Could you imagine an outfield of Lee, Beltran and Rowand? Pitching, Pitching, and more pitching. Go after the pitching first like you said we don't have enough money to get Carlos and a topline starter. Go after the front of the rotation starter before we go after anything else. We also probably need two bullpen arms. Fill the pitching through fa and add maybe a vizquel and then fill in the offense with trades, atleast that's what I think we should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valponick Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Pitching, Pitching, and more pitching. Go after the pitching first like you said we don't have enough money to get Carlos and a topline starter. Go after the front of the rotation starter before we go after anything else. We also probably need two bullpen arms. Fill the pitching through fa and add maybe a vizquel and then fill in the offense with trades, atleast that's what I think we should do. I have never liked the idea of going after Vizquel, I'd rather just give Uribe his shot there, especially for the price tag. I understand the hesitation that goes along with going after a guy like Beltran but its not that often you get a chance to acquire the most complete player in the game, and like I said I doubt any of the top starters are going to want to pitch here anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Let it be known that offense is just as important, if not more important, then a good starting rotation in the regular season. You look at the Cubs and Marlins of this year, and while they have had some very, very solid starting rotations, their offenses have either been inconsistent, or not good at all, and that has kept them out of the postseason. The Dodgers had the best pitching staff in the majors last year, yet still did not make the postseason, due to their weak offense. Adding Beltran would be a good move, assuming that it would not limit the team's spending on pitching. If we could still get a decent starter, adding Beltran could end up being the type of move that puts us over the top. Now, I am not at all suggesting we just sign Beltran for whatever price he wants. I'm suggesting that if we could get him at a reasonable price, it would probably end up being worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 If they get beltran, I could live with our rotation. We have three quality starters, and some ok back of rotation players. With beltran, this would make our outfield one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous in our division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 If they get beltran, I could live with our rotation. We have three quality starters, and some ok back of rotation players. With beltran, this would make our outfield one of the most dangerous, if not the most dangerous in our division. Division? I can't think of many outfields PERIOD that would be better then that(there are some...but not many) We do need pitching however...probably a good reliever if possible, plus a starter...however, what people are not considering is that those can be brought in via trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valponick Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Division? I can't think of many outfields PERIOD that would be better then that(there are some...but not many) We do need pitching however...probably a good reliever if possible, plus a starter...however, what people are not considering is that those can be brought in via trade. I agree. I think with the exception of Guillen/Anderson/Guerrero we'd have the most dangerous Offensive lineup and an even better defensive outfield. I am not saying pitching is not important, but like I said earlier, it's not often you get a chance to acquire the best YOUNG all around player in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I agree. I think with the exception of Guillen/Anderson/Guerrero we'd have the most dangerous Offensive lineup and an even better defensive outfield. I am not saying pitching is not important, but like I said earlier, it's not often you get a chance to acquire the best YOUNG all around player in baseball. Anaheim's is the one that is very easily much better then ours would be...and I'm sure if you broke these things down statistically, there are others better then us too(New York, perhaps, and even an outside chance that Boston could too...and one could argue that the depth of Minnesota's outfield makes them better too) But ours would be unbelieveable, regardless of what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWatcher Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Unless Reinsdorf is willing to open up his wallet and really spend big, I don't think the Sox can afford the 5-year $65 million contract that it will probably take to land Beltran. People keep talking about the supposed $14 million that the Sox will be "saving" by losing Ordonez in the offseason. What they fail to realize is that most of that "savings" will be eaten up by the raises that many Sox players will get by virtue of their contracts or arbitration. Let's look at the 2005 salaries of some of the more expensive Sox players: Konerko - $8.75 million Thomas - $8 million (if he exercises his player option) Marte - $1.25 million Everett - $4 million (if he exercises his player option) Garcia - $8 million Buehrle - $ 5.75 million Lee - $8 million Takatsu - $2.5 million (if the Sox exercise their option on him) Contreras - $6 million TOTAL - $52.25 million That is for only NINE players. Add Beltran to that and you've got about $65 million and you still have FIFTEEN other players to find money for. How much do you think Reinsdorf is willing to spend? Sure, the Sox could trade Konerko or Lee, but they'll have to pay the players they get in return, and that won't provide much of a net savings, unless they trade them away for mere prospects. Bottom line: I don't think Jerry can afford Carlos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Here would be my dream offseason. Trade Konerko 1B to Atlanta for Furcal SS Trade Garland RP, Crede 3B, prospect to Seattle for Guardado LP and Winn LF Sign Beltran Sign Koskie Sign SP(in 4-5M range) Lineup Furcal SS Winn LF Thomas DH Beltran CF Lee 1B Koskie 3B Rowand RF Uribe 2B Davis/Burke C Rotation Garcia Buehrle FA Contreras youngster Bullpen Guardado Takatsu Marte Politte Cotts cheap FA I would love that lineup. You have 2 very good top of the order hitters. You have great balance(lefty-righty). You don't lose any power, but you add significant speed(Furcal, Winn, and Beltran all have at least 20 SB, plus Koskie is on his way to his 4th straight double digit SB season). You add BA(Furcal has never hit below .275, Winn has hit at least .285 the past 3 seasons, Koskie is a career .280 hitter, and Beltran is a career .284 hitter). This team would also be amazing defensively. Winn, Beltran, and Rowand would be one of the best defensive outfields in the game and would cover some serious group. The infield would also be very good(although Lee will have to get use to playing 1B). The Sox would need Contreras to figure things out, and hope that a youngster can come in and give them decent outings for the starting rotation to be good. The bullpen should be better with the addition of Guardado. The one problem is this team would probably cost in the 80-85M range, which is a little too much. Its a dream, but it gives me hope for next year. Its nice to see that the Sox are being mentioned with some of the top available FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Unless Reinsdorf is willing to open up his wallet and really spend big, I don't think the Sox can afford the 5-year $65 million contract that it will probably take to land Beltran. People keep talking about the supposed $14 million that the Sox will be "saving" by losing Ordonez in the offseason. What they fail to realize is that most of that "savings" will be eaten up by the raises that many Sox players will get by virtue of their contracts or arbitration. Let's look at the 2005 salaries of some of the more expensive Sox players: Konerko - $8.75 million Thomas - $8 million (if he exercises his player option) Marte - $1.25 million Everett - $4 million (if he exercises his player option) Garcia - $8 million Buehrle - $ 5.75 million Lee - $8 million Takatsu - $2.5 million (if the Sox exercise their option on him) Contreras - $6 million TOTAL - $52.25 million That is for only NINE players. Add Beltran to that and you've got about $65 million and you still have FIFTEEN other players to find money for. How much do you think Reinsdorf is willing to spend? Sure, the Sox could trade Konerko or Lee, but they'll have to pay the players they get in return, and that won't provide much of a net savings, unless they trade them away for mere prospects. Bottom line: I don't think Jerry can afford Carlos. Also people like Burke who will be making $300,000 or in the neighborhood. There are several cheaper guys we'll have here. Crede, Harris, Uribe, Burke, Davis (should be), Adkins, Cotts, Baj., Borchard, and others. BTW, everyone is going to look into Beltran, you'd be crazy not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Here would be my dream offseason. Trade Konerko 1B to Atlanta for Furcal SS Trade Garland RP, Crede 3B, prospect to Seattle for Guardado LP and Winn LF Sign Beltran Sign Koskie Sign SP(in 4-5M range) Lineup Furcal SS Winn LF Thomas DH Beltran CF Lee 1B Koskie 3B Rowand RF Uribe 2B Davis/Burke C Rotation Garcia Buehrle FA Contreras youngster Bullpen Guardado Takatsu Marte Politte Cotts cheap FA I like your thinking too, but Guardado is out for along time, and he's not worth th 4 million he is getting paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I thought I saw he was dumping Borass somewhere? Anyone still got a link? I wrote a thread bout it in the Sports Bar a few weeks back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 exactly. If we can't afford Maggs (pre injury Maggs) how are we going to afford Beltran? And if it didn't make sense to invest 20-25 percent of our payroll in Maggs, why does it make sense to invest that much in Beltran. With our payroll we have to have more balance -- and a bunch of cheaper guys deliver. As much as we talk about spending more money, we forget that we keep getting beat by a team that doesn't have many expensive players -- namely Minnesota. Heck, the Twins jettison many of their expensive guys -- Guardado, Hawkins, Milton, A.J., Mienky -- and still kick our butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Mags and Carlos Beltran aren't exactly the same players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 no, but the point is same we can't afford to spend 25 -- 30 percent of our total salary on one guy. Don't care if it is Bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Let's wait and see if he dumps Borass first. If he does, maybe he would take the deferred salary, with interest? That would definitely help. KW and Ozzie need to do one hell of a sell job on Beltran for him to come here. And Beltran would go right to the top of the star chart in Chicago...Urlacher, Beltran, everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 My advice: Oprah will park a new Pontiac in your driveway before JR and KW sign Beltran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsSuck1 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 (edited) I'd hit it. But we'd have to get rid of Kong and most of his salary for it to be abkle to work financially. Then I'd like to see Thomas play some first along with DH, Everett as 4th OF/DH. Edited September 21, 2004 by CubsSuck1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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