beck72 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I had always eliminated Beltran from consideration for him signing with the Sox this offseason. I figured the sox had too many holes to fill, and not enough cash to sign him [Probably, 5 yrs, $80 million minimum [$16 mill. a yr]. Yet the Ken Rosenthal piece from the Sporting News saying the Sox might go after Beltran if they didn't resign Maggs and traded either Lee or PK [both probabilities], piqued my interest. Doing some checking, it doesn't sound that unrealistic for the Sox to get Beltran, provided they gave him an offer near what other teams will be offering. *1st, his personality is a match for the Sox. I looked at an article on Beltran from my old Sports Illustrated from 6-28-04. Here are some comments from him: "I pray to God I can be a great player, but I want to keep my life... I don't want to be hiding from people. It would be difficult to be recognized everywhere, so that I couldn't do things ordinary people do. I love to go to the grocery store or the movies or go to the mall and just be an ordinary person. In Kansas City they don't know who I am. Same thing when I'm home in Puerto Rico. I like that". Does that sound like a guy who'd want to go to the yankees or red sox? Beltran could blend in a city like Chi, giving him the freedom and space to move around pretty much unnoticed. *2nd, the two prerequisites for signing Beltran: the team be a contender and Beltran remain in CF. People will say he'll eat too much of the Sox total salary. Maybe. Yet the Sox don't have a position player to build a team around. The Sox are building up the pitching, which they should. But a complete young player like Beltran could be the start of things. Seeing how KW and Ozzie are building up the team anew, look at two teams each admires. KW drools over the A's, who have pitching and one star, Eric Chavez. FLA won with pitching, defense and one star, Ivan Rodriguez. I did a rough estimate of signed Sox players for 2005 [i included Garland with a $3 mill arb. salary] and I came up with a $65.38 mill. team salary with these players: SP- Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia + Garland Bullpen-Marte, Shingo, Politte Lee, Frank, Everett, Beltran. *Rowand, Uribe, Crede, and Davis could fill spots for a few million. Add in $4 mill for Vizquel at SS, and the Sox could get a bullpen arm and a SP for about $80 mill. A few other options to make signing Beltran doable: *The Sox could trade Garland and his $3 mill salary and put it toward a FA like Odalis Perez [$7, 8 mill a yr] and fill the 5th spot with someone like Grilli, Cotts, Diaz, B-Mac or a ST non rostered SP. *The sox trade Lee as well as PK. It give them flexibility to fill other holes, by keeping Garland and still getting a top SP. It also helps rebuild the Sox by getting young impact type prospects. I've learned that when the Sox are mentioned in pursuing big names, there's usually some truth to the rumors. Yet we'll all know this offseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 when analyzing players and game situations, i go by the numbers. when analyzing owners and general managers, i go by the numbers too. the odds of the sox signing beltran are about the same as the odds that willie harris will hit a home run in any given AB. not impossible, but not likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 when analyzing players and game situations, i go by the numbers. when analyzing owners and general managers, i go by the numbers too. the odds of the sox signing beltran are about the same as the odds that willie harris will hit a home run in any given AB. not impossible, but not likely. Seeing how the sox don't have a position player to build their team around, who can steal 37 bases, play gold glove defense, can hit for avg and power as a switch hitter, I see it as more possible than unlikely. Few teams will trade away guys like Beltran. Seeing how both Ozzie and KW aren't the most patient guys, and want to win now and future years, the FA route is the best way to get better fast. Beltran is the only real impact player who fits all the Sox needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 i'd love to see it happen, so long as they also sign some quality bullpen guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 when analyzing players and game situations, i go by the numbers. when analyzing owners and general managers, i go by the numbers too. the odds of the sox signing beltran are about the same as the odds that willie harris will hit a home run in any given AB. not impossible, but not likely. but in all honestly, if I would want one big FA pickup this offseason, he would be mine. I think he is the perfect player to build this team around. He doesnt need to be the vocal player on this team, because Ozzie does enough talking for everyone. PLus he plays the game the way it should be played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 What about Everett? Sox are likely stuck with his 6 million dollar raise because Williams was desperate to salvage this season. Another OF (even one at the capabilities of Beltran) creates a log jam/headache for Guillen. As evident with Koch, Sox management won't allow Guillen to bench a 6 million dollar man unless poor performance dictates it. KW's ego forbids anything less. So what would consist of the 2005 outfield if Sox were to sign Beltran? LF: Lee/ CF: Beltran/ RF: Everett LF: Everett / CF: Beltran/ RF: Rowand LF Lee/ CF: Beltran/ RF: Rowand. Everett is the odd man out in every situation. With Thomas' likely return to DH we're stuck with a poor defensive, injury prone OF. Beltrans signing any surfaces this problem and leads myself to believe Lee would be traded. While I wouldn't mind signing Beltran, the possibility of an albatross contract and black holes in the infield would suggest the money is better suited elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 What about Everett? Sox are likely stuck with his 6 million dollar raise because Williams was desperate to salvage this season. Another OF (even one at the capabilities of Beltran) creates a log jam/headache for Guillen. As evident with Koch, Sox management won't allow Guillen to bench a 6 million dollar man unless poor performance dictates it. KW's ego forbids anything less. So what would consist of the 2005 outfield if Sox were to sign Beltran? LF: Lee/ CF: Beltran/ RF: Everett LF: Everett / CF: Beltran/ RF: Rowand LF Lee/ CF: Beltran/ RF: Rowand. Everett is the odd man out in every situation. With Thomas' likely return to DH we're stuck with a poor defensive, injury prone OF. Beltrans signing any surfaces this problem and leads myself to believe Lee would be traded. While I wouldn't mind signing Beltran, the possibility of an albatross contract and black holes in the infield would suggest the money is better suited elsewhere. I disagree. This year with KW paying Koch's salary to just go away proves they won't just keep guys who aren't producing. If Everett performs, he'll play. If he can't he won't. EVen if it means paying another team to take him. KW is really on the spot. He needs a great offseason to remake this club. And it starts with pitching, "grinders" and an impact type player. that's why moving Lee could be a possibility as well. I don't think he's someone to build a team around. With Rowand in LF or RF, the other OF spot could be filled by a number of players, Everett included. Also, Andres Torres, Escobar, Brian Anderson, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 It's unlikely cause Reinsdork is too damn Cheap that's why. I would sign Beltran over Maggs anyday. Rowand can play nicely in right. Beltran will replace Maggs' numbers, and Rowand could be a solid .280 hitter adding 20-25 homers and 85 -95 RBI's plus 20 steals. Add good Defense to Rowand too. Sox get 2 guys who don't clog the bases. Leadoff Rowand Beltran Frank Konerko Lee Crede/FA Davis/Burke Uribe/ss-2B Not bad a lineup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 It's unlikely cause Reinsdork is too damn Cheap that's why. I would sign Beltran over Maggs anyday. Rowand can play nicely in right. Beltran will replace Maggs' numbers, and Rowand could be a solid .280 hitter adding 20-25 homers and 85 -95 RBI's plus 20 steals. Add good Defense to Rowand too. Sox get 2 guys who don't clog the bases. Leadoff Rowand Beltran Frank Konerko Lee Crede/FA Davis/Burke Uribe/ss-2B Not bad a lineup what's the scouting report on this leadoff guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 None, I don't got a clue who the Sox could get, that why i just put Leadoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Honestly Beltran is a long shot... I know I'll get mocked here pretty badly but why don't we go after Griffey Jr. The guy hasn't had really any serious injuries. They might take a trade of say Paulie and Cotts and then eat up maybe a 1/3 of his remaining salary. I think he can come back strong and really help us out. Not only that he could easily have a 40 HR season at the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Honestly Beltran is a long shot... I know I'll get mocked here pretty badly but why don't we go after Griffey Jr. The guy hasn't had really any serious injuries. They might take a trade of say Paulie and Cotts and then eat up maybe a 1/3 of his remaining salary. I think he can come back strong and really help us out. Not only that he could easily have a 40 HR season at the Cell. Please. Have you seen who the Reds have at 1B? No way they're even remotely interested in Konerko. Plus, Griffey's ongoing hamstring issues are so bad, the Reds are talking about putting him at 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Please. Have you seen who the Reds have at 1B? No way they're even remotely interested in Konerko. Plus, Griffey's ongoing hamstring issues are so bad, the Reds are talking about putting him at 1B. Add to that - the Reds, so five years ago, had so much talent stocked at 1B that they traded one PK to the Sox... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Add to that - the Reds, so five years ago, had so much talent stocked at 1B that they traded one PK to the Sox... They had Paulie Playing left Field. Jeckle, Griffey has been Injured for about 4 years now. Maybe not Major, but Nagging injuries that keep comming back. Nagging injuries are worse than Major Injuries. Say No to Griffey. Plus He's a darn Cancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 They had Paulie Playing left Field. Jeckle, Griffey has been Injured for about 4 years now. Maybe not Major, but Nagging injuries that keep comming back. Nagging injuries are worse than Major Injuries. Say No to Griffey. Plus He's a darn Cancer That's right, thanks Josh, cause I had forgotten about that. Same reason applies, though because they had so much stocked in their system at 1b. They have always had a great lock on that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Honestly Beltran is a long shot... I know I'll get mocked here pretty badly but why don't we go after Griffey Jr. The guy hasn't had really any serious injuries. They might take a trade of say Paulie and Cotts and then eat up maybe a 1/3 of his remaining salary. I think he can come back strong and really help us out. Not only that he could easily have a 40 HR season at the Cell. The suggestion to get Griffey and the picture you have of that guy banging his head on the keyboard could not go together any more perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Whatever budget a team settles on, it doesn't seem wise to invest 1/5 of that in one player. A lot of players have to pan out well for this scenario to work next year, plus a big deal hamstrings you for many years in the future. I don't think the Sox should sign anyone for more than $12 mil per year, or about 1/6 of the total budget. And then, it should only be for a healthy player. Beltran's an awfully good player, but unless he turns into Barry Bonds he's not worth $16 mil (which does seem like a fair guess at what he'll get). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 They had Paulie Playing left Field. Jeckle, Griffey has been Injured for about 4 years now. Maybe not Major, but Nagging injuries that keep comming back. Nagging injuries are worse than Major Injuries. Say No to Griffey. Plus He's a darn Cancer he hasnt played a full season every year he has been in cinci, I hope you are kidding. he is as helpful to the reds as maggs was to us this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 well, with mags gone, we'll need a new excuse for not winning next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 well, with mags gone, we'll need a new excuse for not winning next year. True that, I was hoping they could keep Crede around so I could just blame it all on his emergency swing :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I agree that Beltran is a longshot to end up here, but I also agree that he will probably be a good fit in center. He has the speed we want and is also an excellent defender. Here's one thing to consider though, he's hitting about .267 this year. While most of that is due to the .257 in the NL, it is still something to be worried about if you are going to give him that much money. That's quite a dropoff from what Maggs was providing(somewhere between .300 and .310 when healthy). He's somewhat inconsistent, meaning he'll hit absolutely nothing and then go on a tear for a couple of weeks, much like C Lee. We need to find a consistent hitter of a decent talent level, although I know it is hard to do. However, depending on what kind of contract is actually offered(I'll be interested to see how much is Boras BS and how much is actual interest) I'd certainly take a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 What about Everett? Sox are likely stuck with his 6 million dollar raise because Williams was desperate to salvage this season. Everett's option is for 4 million dollars next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 They might take a trade of say Paulie and Cotts and then eat up maybe a 1/3 of his remaining salary. :dips*** That was an April fool's prank by the Score. Plus they have Sean Casey to play first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I agree that Beltran is a longshot to end up here, but I also agree that he will probably be a good fit in center. He has the speed we want and is also an excellent defender. Here's one thing to consider though, he's hitting about .267 this year. While most of that is due to the .257 in the NL, it is still something to be worried about if you are going to give him that much money. That's quite a dropoff from what Maggs was providing(somewhere between .300 and .310 when healthy). He's somewhat inconsistent, meaning he'll hit absolutely nothing and then go on a tear for a couple of weeks, much like C Lee. We need to find a consistent hitter of a decent talent level, although I know it is hard to do. However, depending on what kind of contract is actually offered(I'll be interested to see how much is Boras BS and how much is actual interest) I'd certainly take a shot. there is more to a player than batting average. This is a reason why he is one of the top fantasy players as well. He is so well rounded. His OBP is better than maggs, he plays better defense, and can steal bases with the best of them. Sounds good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 well, with mags gone, we'll need a new excuse for not winning next year. You never know...sometimes subtraction is better than addition. Maybe a lineup like this would work: Harris Rowand Thomas C Lee Konerko Everett Uribe Crede Davis/Burke If Willie, Uribe and Crede work hard over the winter, this isn't a bad lineup. I know that is all based on potential, but look at the players that took a few years to get it going...Beltre, Pavano, Jose Guillen, etc. At some point we are going to have to give up on players not pulling their weight, but, next year the Sox won't be looked at as a contender anyway because of getting b****slapped by the Twinkees for the last three years. With less pressure, maybe some of the underachievers can relax and just play baseball. Dammit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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