CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Right now, I don't think Diaz gives us a better shot at winning games then Grilli does starting. And that's where I think the whole 'stats' thing comes into play. Guillen and Hawk, the main proprieters of not so much stats, but winning, would say that Grilli has done well, because we've won ballgames that he's started. However - more often than not, the reason we've won those ballgames is more due to an offensive explosion on that night. Diaz, meanwhile, has a mid-3 ERA in his last 20+ innings or so, and it is clearly visable to many on this board - and it should be clearly visable to Guillen and Williams - that he is a lot more confident, and is pitching better because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 We would just like him to finish the year in the bullpen to have some confidence going into next year. Because if he started to games in the last two weeks of the season and got rocked both times it would be like the pat few weeks never happened. Well, it's a risk that I'm certainly willing to take, considering: a.) How well he's pitched as of late. b.) We're no longer in any race whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 And that's where I think the whole 'stats' thing comes into play. Guillen and Hawk, the main proprieters of not so much stats, but winning, would say that Grilli has done well, because we've won ballgames that he's started. However - more often than not, the reason we've won those ballgames is more due to an offensive explosion on that night. Diaz, meanwhile, has a mid-3 ERA in his last 20+ innings or so, and it is clearly visable to many on this board - and it should be clearly visable to Guillen and Williams - that he is a lot more confident, and is pitching better because of it. It could be that he's just more effective out of the bullpen, what's the point right now to stick him in the rotation the last couple weeks of the season take that chance of him getting rocked again and losing that confidence that he's gained in the bullpen? To me it just makes more sense to leave him in the pen the rest of the year, jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Also i feel that if garland was suppose to be so great the cubs would have not traded him for matt karchner. If you remember the trade back then, you'd know that the cubs desperately needed help in the pen. Garland was actually very overrated and he was "suppose" to be the next best thing. His minor league numbers were good, but he still has been average up here. Hell, we didn't know he would be average. It was still a good trade for us. Hell, the cubs traded Willis for Alfonseca and Clement cause they needed bullpen help (which fonse had a decent year at that time.) Who would have thought that Willis is the next best thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 If you remember the trade back then, you'd know that the cubs desperately needed help in the pen. Garland was actually very overrated and he was "suppose" to be the next best thing. His minor league numbers were good, but he still has been average up here. Hell, we didn't know he would be average. It was still a good trade for us. Hell, the cubs traded Willis for Alfonseca and Clement cause they needed bullpen help (which fonse had a decent year at that time.) Who would have thought that Willis is the next best thing. Still makes no sense don't care how much you need bullpen help that you would trade a supposed ''next big thing''. Also willis was not really highly touted when the cubs traded him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Also willis was not really highly touted when the cubs traded him. Read my post again and you'd see I never said/or even stated he was. I ould have thought" He is now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Still makes no sense don't care how much you need bullpen help that you would trade a supposed ''next big thing''. Two words for them. 1908 For us. 1918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Read my post again and you'd see I never said/or even stated he was. I ould have thought" He is now though. Not saying you did say that, just stating a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Two words for them. 1908 For us. 1918 If you need bullpen help i don't think matt karchner is the guy you go to. I mean he was decent but nothing to write home about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 If you neec bullpen help i don't think matt karchner is the guy you go to. I mean he was decent but nothing to write home about. BOOOO, bad cliche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 While they have pitched pretty equal now i exoect over the course of the year grilli to be alot worse. Adn that is saying something. Also i feel that if garland was suppose to be so great the cubs would have not traded him for matt karchner. Here's an old scouting report on Diaz when we traded for him. Some fun stuff in there. This guy was definitely high on Diaz. Felix Diaz was the White Sox’s prize for dumping Kenny Lofton at the trading deadline this season. Instead of adding to the organizational depth, I think that Diaz has a real chance of displacing some of the more heralded starting pitching prospects that the White Sox have accumulated. Diaz works off of a mid-90’s fastball that just explodes on hitters, almost like Mariano Rivera’s (not the cutter). He also throws a quality slider that is devastating to right-handers, a decent curveball, and an improving changeup. His command is certainly good enough for the kind of stuff that he has, with just over 3 walks per nine over the last few seasons. Diaz certainly seems to have benefited from the leisurely pace with which the Giants have been moving him through the system. After spending three years in Rookie league ball and a year in the Sally league, Diaz appears to have developed the confidence required to succeed as a starting pitcher, and still is only 22 years old (and only a step or two away from the majors). The biggest question mark with Diaz is the ability of his slight frame to hold up to the rigors of a full season of pitching. He is already at his career high in innings for a season at 83, which is roughly half of what a franchise would require from him as a mere “five inning per start” hurler at the major league level. Like many of the “Pedro Martinez-framed” starters, his health will be as much of a factor in his success going forward as his pitching ability. According to last year’s prospect reviews, Diaz might appear to be merely some insurance for some of the more highly touted White Sox pitching prospects, but as I stated above, I believe that he will be one of their top starters in a few years. Since last season: two of the better prospects, Josh Fogg and Kip Wells, were shipped off to Pittsburgh for the shell of Todd Ritchie; Jon Garland has been a somewhat ineffective sinkerballer and Dan Wright has shown diminished velocity (and lackluster results) in the bigs; Dennis Ulacia has been awful and Corwin Malone has been wild at AA; while Jon Rauch has been relatively good at AAA and Kris Honel has been outstanding in low-A. There are a lot of good arms with quality stuff in the organization, but no one is locking up (in a present or future sense) any of the jobs that are not Mark Buehrle’s. I would safely assume that Jon Rauch will have a future spot, but Diaz could certainly be the number three (my best guess for the last two spots would be Honel and Garland). One minor downside to any expectations for Diaz is that his stuff and fragile nature are rather well suited for the bullpen compared to most of the other White Sox young pitchers. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him brought up in September to throw a bit out of the pen, but I am still hopeful that enough of the others will blow up to give Diaz a rotation spot in the long term. If he remains a starter, Ramon Ortiz is a reasonable comparison. In the bullpen, I think a Felix Rodriguez role (and comparison) would suit him well. Either way, Felix Diaz is one of the best “sleeper prospects” in baseball at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Why do we expect more from Garland than Grilli? 1997 MLB Draft 1 Detroit Tigers Matt Anderson rhp Rice University 2 Philadelphia Phillies J. D. Drew of Florida State University (did not sign; drafted again in '98) 3 Anaheim Angels Troy Glaus 3b/ss UCLA 4 San Francisco Giants Jason Grilli rhp Seton Hall University 5 Toronto Blue Jays Vernon Wells of Bowie HS - Arlington, TX (Texas signee) 6 New York Mets Geoff Goetz lhp Jesuit HS - Tampa, FL 7 Kansas City Royals Dan Reichert rhp University of the Pacific 8 Pittsburgh Pirates J. J. Davis 1b Baldwin Park HS - Pomona, CA 9 Minnesota Twins Michael Cuddyer ss Great Bridge HS - Chesapeake, VA 10 Chicago Cubs Jon Garland rhp Kennedy HS - Granada Hills, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Well.... Joel Davis was Drafted in front of Roger Clemens..... We all know how that turned out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 grilli's had major arm surgery for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Two words for them. 1908 For us. 1918 Not to nitpick, but for us it was 1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Not to nitpick, but for us it was 1917 Yeah 1918 was a curse of a different color Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 grilli's had major arm surgery for one. Yes, he has. And he's just about due to fully recover from that. Grilli could turn into one of those that you luck into. He's got the natural ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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