qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Just where did you make that point? :rolly I don't know but i was getting there. I just think we need to let him finish out the year on a strong note. No need to f*** up one of the few things that's going good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 It was like a lightbulb went off over the kids head in the third inning of that start. I noted it on that night, and was cautiously optimistic. Now I'm convinced. Ditto. I was at that game, I remember Diaz pitching the first three innings or so, and pitching pretty poorly. He then came out in the fourth, and it looked like a totally different pitcher - to tell you the truth, he looked sort of Pedro-ish. Not in how he threw, just in how his attitude seemed on the mound. He seemed a lot more confident, almost cocky confident - kind of like, you aren't going to be able to hit what I throw. The only thing I could notice different with him was that he actually started to bust hitters up and in with his low 90s fastball, which would set up his pitches on either side of the plate. The best way to say what I'm trying to type is that he looks to be gleaming with confidence, at this point - almost to a point where Jon Garland and Jose Contreras might be the ones battling for the fifth spot, rather than the fourth spot. And yeah, I'm serious when I'm saying that, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Just where did you make that point? :rolly Give him a break, it was one of his first posts that exceeded two lines that I've ever seen. Seriously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Give him a break, it was one of his first posts that exceeded two lines that I've ever seen. Seriously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Sorry but I disagree. He is a starter so he would be doing just as well as such. It's not a case of being more comfortable out of the bullpen as it is him being more comfortable at the major league level. He put up killer numbers at AAA as a starter and IMO it was only a matter of time before he got comfortable. Jason Grilli has not been that good. I say give Felix the shot that he deserves. Have you ever heard of people being better in the bullpen then starters jeckle?? He's pitching so well out of the pen, why mess that up?? I know cheat's going to argue with me about this but Grilli has been solid, he doesn't have a qs yet but he's kept us in every game he's pitched, diaz did not, diaz has pitched awesome out of the bullpen no need to mess with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Have you ever heard of people being better in the bullpen then starters jeckle?? He's pitching so well out of the pen, why mess that up?? I know cheat's going to argue with me about this but Grilli has been solid, he doesn't have a qs yet but he's kept us in every game he's pitched, diaz did not, diaz has pitched awesome out of the bullpen no need to mess with that. I'm too lazy to find the stats right now, but I'd say that a big portion of Grilli's wins have become more because of run support. Like last night, six runs, six innings. If Diaz starts that game, I don't think he gives up that much. JMO, but you know what I'm saying. BTW - I was at that game last night, and holy f***ing hell - why the f*** do the Twins have so many guys that come up from their minors and just rake? This Jason Kubel is f***ing awesome - along with Morneau, and if he ever gets his knees Okayed, Mauer. Damn, does that organization know how to scout/draft or what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Have you ever heard of people being better in the bullpen then starters jeckle?? He's pitching so well out of the pen, why mess that up?? I know cheat's going to argue with me about this but Grilli has been solid, he doesn't have a qs yet but he's kept us in every game he's pitched, diaz did not, diaz has pitched awesome out of the bullpen no need to mess with that. Grilli has been pitching worse then garland. The only difference is that we expect alot more out of garland then grilli so that is why everyone is on garland rather than grilli. Grilli can easily have a record of 0-5,1-4, etc. But he has been really lucky with run support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Grilli has been pitching worse then garland. The only difference is that we expect alot more out of garland then grilli so that is why everyone is on garland rather than grilli. Grilli can easily have a record of 0-5,1-4, etc. But he has been really lucky with run support. Of course we expect more out of garland. Most of Grilli's starts he's went around 6 innings giving up around 4 runs, I believe last night was the first time he's given up more then 4 runs in a start(I could definitely be wrong about that), obviously that's not very good era wise, however atleast he's been keeping us in games, diaz on the other hand when starting did not keep us in games. Let Jason start and diaz pitch out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 BTW - I was at that game last night, and holy f***ing hell - why the f*** do the Twins have so many guys that come up from their minors and just rake? This Jason Kubel is f***ing awesome - along with Morneau, and if he ever gets his knees Okayed, Mauer. Damn, does that organization know how to scout/draft or what... According to 3EB people blow their minor league talent out of portion. But i don't know how he can think that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 According to 3EB people blow their minor league talent out of portion. But i don't know how he can think that. Like I said before, put me or you out there for the twins and we'd produce, they just have a great organization, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Of course we expect more out of garland. Most of Grilli's starts he's went around 6 innings giving up around 4 runs, I believe last night was the first time he's given up more then 4 runs in a start(I could definitely be wrong about that), obviously that's not very good era wise, however atleast he's been keeping us in games, diaz on the other hand when starting did not keep us in games. Let Jason start and diaz pitch out of the pen. 6 innings and four earned runs keeps us in the games i guess but i never feel that that is agood start even for a 5th starter. I mean that equals out to a 6.00 era. By the way he gave up five earned runs over 5 innings against the angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 6 innings and four earned runs keeps us in the games i guess but i never feel that that is agood start even for a 5th starter. I mean that equals out to a 6.00 era. By the way he gave up five earned runs over 5 innings against the angels. Like I said I could be wrong. It's definitely not a great era but atleast he's kept us in games, diaz didn't as a starter(am I repeating myself? ) Either way diaz has been awesome out of the pen, why mess with that, when he could be building a lot of confidence for himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Like I said I could be wrong. It's definitely not a great era but atleast he's kept us in games, diaz didn't as a starter(am I repeating myself? ) Either way diaz has been awesome out of the pen, why mess with that, when he could be building a lot of confidence for himself? Lol i agree with every thing you are saying i have already said it earlier in the thread that it would not be wise to have him start a couple games this year. I mean let him go into next year with some good confidence. Also i was just letting you know that he has given up more than four runs before yesterday. Not trying to be a smartass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Lol i agree with every thing you are saying i have already said it earlier in the thread that it would not be wise to have him start a couple games this year. I mean let him go into next year with some good confidence. Also i was just letting you know that he has given up more than four runs before yesterday. Not trying to be a smartass. I know you weren't trying to be a smartass. Well we agree but we're still arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Have you ever heard of people being better in the bullpen then starters jeckle?? He's pitching so well out of the pen, why mess that up?? I know cheat's going to argue with me about this but Grilli has been solid, he doesn't have a qs yet but he's kept us in every game he's pitched, diaz did not, diaz has pitched awesome out of the bullpen no need to mess with that. You're right, I'm gonig to argu with you... A couple of guys who thrived in the pen but not in the rotation... Gagne. Ramon Ortiz. Danny Wright. OK that last one was very brief, and really shouldn't be included. Grilli's starts have not "kept us in games" the offense had... He left with 6 runs given up in 6IP last night. That's not keeping you in a game. The offense that has been supporting GRilli is allowing you to think that he has been keeping him in games... The reality is that the offense has been keeping Grilli from getting tacked with the loss. His (expected W/L) record is 1-3 compared to his actual W/L of 2-1. I'm not going to argue with you about pulling diaz from the pen, however. I argued loud enough that he never should have been put there in the first place. The fact that he's starting to show success, when he was set up to fail, (you remember pitching in relief on 1 days rest after throwing 98pitches, On short rest vs. the best hitting team in baseball for his second start, thrown against the Cubs twice in the span of 5 days) says a lot about the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 You're right, I'm gonig to argu with you... A couple of guys who thrived in the pen but not in the rotation... Gagne. Ramon Ortiz. Danny Wright. OK that last one was very brief, and really shouldn't be included. Grilli's starts have not "kept us in games" the offense had... He left with 6 runs given up in 6IP last night. That's not keeping you in a game. The offense that has been supporting GRilli is allowing you to think that he has been keeping him in games... The reality is that the offense has been keeping Grilli from getting tacked with the loss. His (expected W/L) record is 1-3 compared to his actual W/L of 2-1. I'm not going to argue with you about pulling diaz from the pen, however. I argued loud enough that he never should have been put there in the first place. The fact that he's starting to show success, when he was set up to fail, (you remember pitching in relief on 1 days rest after throwing 98pitches, On short rest vs. the best hitting team in baseball for his second start, thrown against the Cubs twice in the span of 5 days) says a lot about the kid. Grilli should honestly not been on this team next year. There is no need for him at all i feel. He gives up too many hits and is way to wild to put in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Grilli has been pitching worse then garland. They both have been equally as bad. Grill has a 6.99 in Sepember whereas Garland is sportin a 6.41 era. (dont want to show the other stats cause there horrible.) The only difference is that we expect alot more out of garland then grilli so that is why everyone is on garland rather than grilli. Of course we expect more out of Garland. He was a first round pick, has a load of potential who we traded for, has the stuff to be a good #3 (average #2) in the league, and he is younger than Grilli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Not only are the Twins prospects awesome, but they seem even better cause the Sox prospects come to the majors, and just flat out suck. We're going to be in a lot of trouble in the future if the Twins and Indians continue to develop players as well as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Kubel is an absolute stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 You're right, I'm gonig to argu with you... A couple of guys who thrived in the pen but not in the rotation... Gagne. Ramon Ortiz. Danny Wright. OK that last one was very brief, and really shouldn't be included. Grilli's starts have not "kept us in games" the offense had... He left with 6 runs given up in 6IP last night. That's not keeping you in a game. The offense that has been supporting GRilli is allowing you to think that he has been keeping him in games... The reality is that the offense has been keeping Grilli from getting tacked with the loss. His (expected W/L) record is 1-3 compared to his actual W/L of 2-1. I'm not going to argue with you about pulling diaz from the pen, however. I argued loud enough that he never should have been put there in the first place. The fact that he's starting to show success, when he was set up to fail, (you remember pitching in relief on 1 days rest after throwing 98pitches, On short rest vs. the best hitting team in baseball for his second start, thrown against the Cubs twice in the span of 5 days) says a lot about the kid. I was being sarcastic about guys thriving out of the pen after not succeeding as starters, it happens all the time, that was my point. I like Felix a lot too, however he needs to stay in the pen maybe we've found another solid reliever for next year. I'm not trying to say that Grilli is a great starter but atleast he's kept us in ballgames most of his starts, not all of them but most of them. Either way there is no point to switch their positions right now, do you agree with that cheat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 They both have been equally as bad. Grill has a 6.99 in Sepember whereas Garland is sportin a 6.41 era. (dont want to show the other stats cause there horrible.) Of course we expect more out of Garland. He was a first round pick, has a load of potential who we traded for, has the stuff to be a good #3 (average #2) in the league, and he is younger than Grilli. While they have pitched pretty equal now i exoect over the course of the year grilli to be alot worse. Adn that is saying something. Also i feel that if garland was suppose to be so great the cubs would have not traded him for matt karchner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I was being sarcastic about guys thriving out of the pen after not succeeding as starters, it happens all the time, that was my point. I like Felix a lot too, however he needs to stay in the pen maybe we've found another solid reliever for next year. I'm not trying to say that Grilli is a great starter but atleast he's kept us in ballgames most of his starts, not all of them but most of them. Either way there is no point to switch their positions right now, do you agree with that cheat? Just asking - what's the point of keeping Diaz in the bullpen if you feel (you collective, as in you, people of the board, you, the manager, you, the organization) that he'll give you a better chance at winning the game by starting over Grilli? Plus, doesn't this organization want Diaz to be a future starter? I don't mind Grilli starting. I mind Grilli starting over Diaz, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Just asking - what's the point of keeping Diaz in the bullpen if you feel (you collective, as in you, people of the board, you, the manager, you, the organization) that he'll give you a better chance at winning the game by starting over Grilli? Plus, doesn't this organization want Diaz to be a future starter? I don't mind Grilli starting. I mind Grilli starting over Diaz, though... Right now, I don't think Diaz gives us a better shot at winning games then Grilli does starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Right now, I don't think Diaz gives us a better shot at winning games then Grilli does starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Just asking - what's the point of keeping Diaz in the bullpen if you feel (you collective, as in you, people of the board, you, the manager, you, the organization) that he'll give you a better chance at winning the game by starting over Grilli? Plus, doesn't this organization want Diaz to be a future starter? I don't mind Grilli starting. I mind Grilli starting over Diaz, though... We would just like him to finish the year in the bullpen to have some confidence going into next year. Because if he started to games in the last two weeks of the season and got rocked both times it would be like the pat few weeks never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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