southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Yes he does have 8 wins in 15 starts but in those 15 starts he has an era of 4.78 that is 4th to 5th starter territory. So i would not be too sure that he will not have an era of 4.87 next year. A flyball pitcher in a our stadium does not go well. Also why get cabrera when we basically have the same exact player in uribe for about 4 million a year cheaper? and who might that be? Uribe? Fine with me, but I would rather have Cabrera at SS and Uribe at 2nd, but that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Out of curiosity, what would his ERA be minus the few starts he had while pitching pretty banged up. Heck, I still think he's pitching hurt because his velocity is way down compared to his first few starts with the team. great point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Crede won't bring anything by himself at this point. The only way he goes is if it is in a bigger deal. Book it. Some options I could see: Crede and Marte (Ozzie doesn't seem too thrilled with Marte, but at 1.25 mill, I think you'd have to get a pretty good deal to move Marte). Crede and Garland - I think a deal like this could work for a team still a year to two from competing, but has a player or two that may not fit into their plans, but are still good to very good. When talking with Danman earlier today, he suggested that the Braves should go after Garland and use him as a reclamation project (like they do with so many guys). Crede and Konerko or Lee - Teams would be interested, but I think most likely would be Crede/Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Maybe not, but we have to get at least one of them I think and then get someone else of high quality defensively at the other position. We can't have the type of pitching staff we currently have and have the type of defensive players we currently have. It just hasn't worked out well and it won't work out well. Looking for an open-minded answer here....... open to all. Is Uribe good enough defensively to play SS full time. I have reservations that he can be the man at SS offensively, but I haven't seen enough of him defensively. Honest, unbiased opinions please........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Some options I could see: Crede and Marte (Ozzie doesn't seem too thrilled with Marte, but at 1.25 mill, I think you'd have to get a pretty good deal to move Marte). Crede and Garland - I think a deal like this could work for a team still a year to two from competing, but has a player or two that may not fit into their plans, but are still good to very good. When talking with Danman earlier today, he suggested that the Braves should go after Garland and use him as a reclamation project (like they do with so many guys). Crede and Konerko or Lee - Teams would be interested, but I think most likely would be Crede/Garland. Aren't most of the Braves reclamation projects veteran guys, though? I was thinking about that before so I am not asking directly because of your post. It just sparked a previous thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looking for an open-minded answer here....... open to all. Is Uribe good enough defensively to play SS full time. I have reservations that he can be the man at SS offensively, but I haven't seen enough of him defensively. Honest, unbiased opinions please........ Uribe is good enough to play SS defensively no doubt. From what I've heard, he's got good range, and a good arm. His versatility only helps as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looking for an open-minded answer here....... open to all. Is Uribe good enough defensively to play SS full time. I have reservations that he can be the man at SS offensively, but I haven't seen enough of him defensively. Honest, unbiased opinions please........ Yes, because he has excellent range quick release and a cannon for an arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looking for an open-minded answer here....... open to all. Is Uribe good enough defensively to play SS full time. I have reservations that he can be the man at SS offensively, but I haven't seen enough of him defensively. Honest, unbiased opinions please........ I think he has shown some flashes of playing SS at a high level defensively, but I don't believe he is in the same caliber of a Cabrera. At 2B I think he is outstanding. Cabrera and Uribe would make a great duo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looking for an open-minded answer here....... open to all. Is Uribe good enough defensively to play SS full time. I have reservations that he can be the man at SS offensively, but I haven't seen enough of him defensively. Honest, unbiased opinions please........ Uribe is legit at shortstop. Ozzie has made a couple refernces to him being smarter, but from what I can tell he is usually heads up. I saw him make two mental mistakes all year off the top of my head (i'm sure there were more though). He has good range, not amazing, but good. More importantly when he uses his range he is able to get to the ball and throw the guy out. He isn't one of those shortstops that makes the diving stop but when he throws it, can't get enough on it and therefor the runner ends up beating the play out (still a nice defensive play...just not a finished one). I don't think he's a gold glover, but just a notch below. With time I'd say he could be a top 6 defensive shortstop. His arm and how accurate it is really is amazing and he's good with the glove (doesn't seem to butcher many balls). Of course I'm comparing him to watching Jose. Then again I see Itzuris and Eck play a lot and while I love Itz, I'd say Juan has the ability to be better...although he isn't better defensively at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Aren't most of the Braves reclamation projects veteran guys, though? I was thinking about that before so I am not asking directly because of your post. It just sparked a previous thought. For someone who knows who is the braves really good 3rd base prospect isn't it marte something? Andy marte maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Aren't most of the Braves reclamation projects veteran guys, though? I was thinking about that before so I am not asking directly because of your post. It just sparked a previous thought. Ya, Wright would be that guy this year. But then again, they did take Cruz from the Cubs and he's been pitching very well this year. That was just an absolute steal. I still don't get why the hell the cubs gave up on him so quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Aren't most of the Braves reclamation projects veteran guys, though? I was thinking about that before so I am not asking directly because of your post. It just sparked a previous thought. well Jaret Wright was one this year, although I guess he could be considered a veteran guy at 28 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I think he has shown some flashes of playing SS at a high level defensively, but I don't believe he is in the same caliber of a Cabrera. At 2B I think he is outstanding. Cabrera and Uribe would make a great duo. Agree with you at that, if he is at 2nd base all year, he will have a shot at the gold glove..no doubt in my mind at that either. For cripes sakes Adam Kennedy is supposedly the favorite. He's solid and all, but holy s***, Uribe makes him look like nothing from what I've seen from him at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I think he has shown some flashes of playing SS at a high level defensively, but I don't believe he is in the same caliber of a Cabrera. At 2B I think he is outstanding. Cabrera and Uribe would make a great duo. You do understand that cabrera is basically the same player as valentin right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 For someone who knows who is the braves really good 3rd base prospect isn't it marte something? Andy marte maybe? Yep, Andy Marte. Seen him play a few times and he's really good. Braves also have Franconeour who is an outfielder. Saw him before I even knew he was a good prospect and remember writing down his name in my notebook (i bring one to the minor league games i see) and was just impressed by his ability. Then i get home and see him rated pretty highly by BA. The next year he's even higher (this year he's one of their top few prospects). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 You do understand that cabrera is basically the same player as valentin right? BA HA HA HA HA!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 You do understand that cabrera is basically the same player as valentin right? You mean offensively or defensively? I have never seen enough of Cabrera but I know he has offensive potential, but wasn't he a gold glove guy last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Ya, Wright would be that guy this year. But then again, they did take Cruz from the Cubs and he's been pitching very well this year. That was just an absolute steal. I still don't get why the hell the cubs gave up on him so quick. Remember Nuke LaLoosh?? Million dollar arm, five cent head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Remember Nuke LaLoosh?? Million dollar arm, five cent head! Name rings a bell...but I dont' have much of a memory on his hype and what not. But I'm assuming he would compare to Bobby Jenks. God if he stayed healthy and had anywhat of a brain he would be unbelievable. I've never seen sicker stuff from a guy his age (well back when I saw him about a year and a half ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 You mean offensively or defensively? I have never seen enough of Cabrera but I know he has offensive potential, but wasn't he a gold glove guy last year? In a good offense and a good team Cabrera is an outstanding #2 hitter. He was the runner up the last two years to Renteria as the SS gold glove. I believe he won it in 2001, I could be wrong. He is not the same player as Jose Valentin. In fact it is not even a fair comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 You mean offensively or defensively? I have never seen enough of Cabrera but I know he has offensive potential, but wasn't he a gold glove guy last year? The only knock I have ever heard on Cabrera is he has a tendency to be lazy and not hustle. My guess is he is like a lot of latin players that play hard if you keep them interested, but once you start losing or things don't go well for them, their effort drops or becomes inconsistent. That knock came from within the Expos, so it seems to fit, because I don't think Boston is complaining about him right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 BA HA HA HA HA!!!! He has a worse career obp. Valentin has better range ffactor and zone rating by alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Name rings a bell...but I dont' have much of a memory on his hype and what not. But I'm assuming he would compare to Bobby Jenks. God if he stayed healthy and had anywhat of a brain he would be unbelievable. I've never seen sicker stuff from a guy his age (well back when I saw him about a year and a half ago). Jason, Jason Jason........ what the hell am I going to do with you kids??? Nuke LaLoosh is the pitcher in Bull Durham, played by Tim Robbins. Work with me here!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 The only knock I have ever heard on Cabrera is he has a tendency to be lazy and not hustle. My guess is he is like a lot of latin players that play hard if you keep them interested, but once you start losing or things don't go well for them, their effort drops or becomes inconsistent. That knock came from within the Expos, so it seems to fit, because I don't think Boston is complaining about him right now. Yep, Gammons has done nothing but tout those deals Epstein made and how much it improved the BoSox defense. I remember Derek Lowe actually went on a hot streak following the deal. But Nomar was brutal defensively. Cabrerra is supposed to be awesome. Offensively he's had a few really good years and a few not so good years. If I'd compare him to anyone it would be Renteria. Renteria is obviously much more advanced, but I also think he's older and obviously more experienced, meaning that Cabrera has a shot to break out like Edgar did a few years back. Rent was always solid, but he definately took his game to another level about two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 You mean offensively or defensively? I have never seen enough of Cabrera but I know he has offensive potential, but wasn't he a gold glove guy last year? His defense is not as good as valentin's outside of errors. Valentin blows him away in range factor and zone rating. Offensively they are pretty equal except strikeouts and valentin hits more home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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