beck72 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 With Matt Clement seemingly out next yr for the Cubs, he's the type of SP who could do very well in the Cell, with his 1.6+ GB/ FB ratio. His stock has dropped a bit with his recent struggles. Yet he carried the Cubs early when everyone else was injured. He could be tired, hurt, who knows. but we all know how poorly Baker handles his pitchers. Him coming to the south side might be a good fit for both the sox and him. I've always liked Clement. He's more of a thinker and quiet, not like most of the fools on the cubs. While the sox are at it, why not sign Damian Miller. His defense is solid, and should be able to give the Sox an upgrade w/ his handling of pitchers. His offense is steady hitting .275 with a .340 OBP. [He hit the same in '02, after a poor '03 with the Cubs]. There are few options out there to improve at C. Miller would be better than Ben Davis, IMO. If the Sox sign one, the other may want to come as well. Who cares about the ex-cub factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement is not a winner. I'll take Burke over Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement definitely interests me. I'd be very happy if the Sox sign him or Odalis Perez this offseason. His recent struggles will probably push down his asking price a little, which can only help, and we need more groundball pitchers at the Cell. Catchers wise, there's Varitek and LoDuca, who seem to be the 2 best on the market. I'd love Mike Matheny, but I doubt he'll leave St. Louis, and I don't think Miller would leave the Cubbies either, unless some other team really offered him more money. Don't know if Brian Schneider is a FA or not, but he's a guy worth looking at as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement is not a winner. How many starters that are "winners" can you say we have then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 and I don't think Miller would leave the Cubbies either He's on Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 He's on Oakland. Why am I thinking he's still with the Cubs then. :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 With Matt Clement seemingly out next yr for the Cubs, he's the type of SP who could do very well in the Cell, with his 1.6+ GB/ FB ratio. His stock has dropped a bit with his recent struggles. Yet he carried the Cubs early when everyone else was injured. He could be tired, hurt, who knows. but we all know how poorly Baker handles his pitchers. Him coming to the south side might be a good fit for both the sox and him. I've always liked Clement. He's more of a thinker and quiet, not like most of the fools on the cubs. While the sox are at it, why not sign Damian Miller. His defense is solid, and should be able to give the Sox an upgrade w/ his handling of pitchers. His offense is steady hitting .275 with a .340 OBP. [He hit the same in '02, after a poor '03 with the Cubs]. There are few options out there to improve at C. Miller would be better than Ben Davis, IMO. If the Sox sign one, the other may want to come as well. Who cares about the ex-cub factor. Clement isn't an "ex" Cub, atleast not just yet :rolly Damien Miller: :puke I wouldn't mind Clement, he could fill the 3rd starter role then the Sox will have to go out and find a 4th starter and a 5th starter so it won't fill eveything. Contreras needs to be thrown into the pen because he has been awful(except for the first couple starts) and Garland...well...he is just Garland... Damien Miller isn't enough to satisfy my needs, I would much rather have Varitek, younger and way better player. But his price is a question mark(can any one tell me how much he makes)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement isn't an "ex" Cub, atleast not just yet :rolly Damien Miller: :puke I wouldn't mind Clement, he could fill the 3rd starter role then the Sox will have to go out and find a 4th starter and a 5th starter so it won't fill eveything. Contreras needs to be thrown into the pen because he has been awful(except for the first couple starts) and Garland...well...he is just Garland... Damien Miller isn't enough to satisfy my needs, I would much rather have Varitek, younger and way better player. But his price is a question mark(can any one tell me how much he makes)... We won't be moving Contreras to the pen, when we will be paying him $14 million over the next 2 seasons I think. Like it or not, he'll definitely be in our rotation, his upside is just way too high to give up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 How many starters that are "winners" can you say we have then? Two. Buehrle and Garcia, obviously. Grilli has the attitude of a winner, but unfortunately lacks the skills of one. I wish he would add one more pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 While I like Buehrle and Garcia a lot, you can't look past the fact that neither has been exactly tremendous this year. Both are good, but neither great. Awesome 3's, solid 2's. I thnk Garcia may be able to turn into a #1, but thats still to be seen. As far as Contreras goes, I have been long saying that this deal was going to be a tough one to win cause the Sox took on a pretty hefty contract. I mean, they could of just held Elo and spent the money they added in Contreras...6 mill a year on a pretty good pitcher, imo. And still then added another FA pitcher. They decided Contreras was who they wanted and in a sense its like a FA signing, but right now who knows. I want to see what an offseason does for him and see how he comes out next year. There is no doubting his stuff, but his pitching smarts are well...way up in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement is not a winner. I'll take Burke over Miller. Clement has been a joke, had a good start, but once again has proven that he is not a winner. Season after season he has a terrible record, even on a winning team. Dont listen to baseball tonite too much.. he is terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement has been a joke, had a good start, but once again has proven that he is not a winner. Season after season he has a terrible record, even on a winning team. Dont listen to baseball tonite too much.. he is terrible Clement's fault? I think not... He has 7 losses where he gives up 3 or less ER... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement gives innings, has great stuff, limits hits, gets a ton of strikeouts, but does suffer from control trouble at times and has been struggling the past two months with it. Still a 3.69 ERA on the year and in the past three years his highest ERA was 4.11. 155 hits in just 181 innings and he has a very good ERA at home, which tells me he'd be more then fine pitching at the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 I have really made it clear that I really dislike Cooper, but I dont even think thats Contreas's problem. If I were the Sox, and I have all this money invested in this guy, I go out in the off-season, look for some Cuban coach or Latin coach at least, I hire them to the staff to just work with Jose. Like you Jas, there is no question the guy has SICK stuff. If some sort of coach could come in, that could get into the thick skull of Jose, and teach him how and when to throw the splitter, and when to throw the fastball, he could honestly be a 20 game winner IMO. Thats a pretty good idea. Although I do hope an entire offseason can really help him. As far as Coop goes, I'm starting to go more and more to that line. I think about seeing progress out of pitchers and I see quite a few guys on the Sox staff with talent and I don't see them getting better, in fact I see them getting worse. He's a lot different then Nardi and he's definately better then him, but I am very sceptical on Coop now. Early in the year he had this staff performing really well, but since then everything has blown up and I see a lot of guys just getting worse under his watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Clement's fault? I think not... He has 7 losses where he gives up 3 or less ER... Do you think it is a coincidence that Zambrano gets 5.69 runs/game and Clement only 4.03? (12th best, 4th worst, respectively) Mound presence is a factor that is often ignored. Clement looks like a young boy who was sent to his room without a cookie. Zambrano is always riled up. The team responds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 If Clement was the only option left I'd go for him but as previously said I'd take Burke over Miller also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 While the sox are at it, why not sign Damian Miller. Miller is with Oakland. I thought you were gonna say Aramis Ramirez, but the Cubs would be fools not to re-sign this guy. If they don't I'll take him in a f***ing heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 With Matt Clement seemingly out next yr for the Cubs, he's the type of SP who could do very well in the Cell, with his 1.6+ GB/ FB ratio. His stock has dropped a bit with his recent struggles. Yet he carried the Cubs early when everyone else was injured. He could be tired, hurt, who knows. but we all I like Clement for the GB/FB ratio as well. He's likely to be relatively cheap - think $5-$6 million per. And the Sox cannot get a guy that is a flyball pitcher. You can tell that it's already affecting Freddy Garcia, whose ERA has been not so good with the White Sox despite his 8-4 ERA. Too many home runs on fly balls at US Cellular. By the way, here are the top GB/FB starters who might be available: Derek Lowe (high ERA, but GB/FB of 2.88) Clement - 1.6 ratio Odalis Perez - 1.59 ratio Pavano - 1.42 ratio I'd take any one of them if I were the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Miller is with Oakland. I thought you were gonna say Aramis Ramirez, but the Cubs would be fools not to re-sign this guy. If they don't I'll take him in a f***ing heartbeat. I'm almost positive the cubs signed him to a 3 year or so extension last year but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 I'm almost positive the cubs signed him to a 3 year or so extension last year but I could be wrong. I was thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 I think Clement would be a great guy to go after. It's not his fault that the Cubs suck too much to score runs for him. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 Damion Miller would be a solid guy to have split time behind the plate. As for Clement, I think something is seriously wrong with him. All of the sudden he has Esteban Loiaza syndrome with the disappearing arm speed. I think his heavy slider could be an asset on the southside, but he has to be healthy without a doubt. Right now he is out of the rotation for Glendon Rusch, and might not even be on the playoff roster. That scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 Do you think it is a coincidence that Zambrano gets 5.69 runs/game and Clement only 4.03? (12th best, 4th worst, respectively) Mound presence is a factor that is often ignored. Clement looks like a young boy who was sent to his room without a cookie. Zambrano is always riled up. The team responds. So, you're saying the Cubs not scoring runs for clement is Clement's fault?! Doesn't the offense have more to do with run support than "mound presence"? I don't buy it. Run support differs from year to year for most pitchers. How do you explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 I like Clement for the GB/FB ratio as well. He's likely to be relatively cheap - think $5-$6 million per. And the Sox cannot get a guy that is a flyball pitcher. You can tell that it's already affecting Freddy Garcia, whose ERA has been not so good with the White Sox despite his 8-4 ERA. Too many home runs on fly balls at US Cellular. By the way, here are the top GB/FB starters who might be available: Derek Lowe (high ERA, but GB/FB of 2.88) Clement - 1.6 ratio Odalis Perez - 1.59 ratio Pavano - 1.42 ratio I'd take any one of them if I were the Sox. Exactly why getting Clement would be a wise signing for the sox. The Sox don't need a FB pitcher. They need a guy who gets a ton of GB's so the balls stay in the park. Clement would do so and be affordable. [Provided he's healthy] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 [Provided he's healthy] Here is the key my man. I'm guessing he isn't. If he was healthy, seeing how he's been so good the past two years, the Cubs would definitely be trotting him out there every 5 days. He's had some nagging injuries, and just a guess on my part, but I think it's more than that. When he throws that power slider it puts a lot of torque on his elbow. But if he's healthy ... he'd be a good addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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