Gene Honda Civic Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Question for all. What teams (How Many) have a better #3 Starter than Jon Garland? Everyone acts like he is such a loser, but I think 85% of the teams in MLB would love to have him in their #3 slot. Agreed -- Put him in an extreme pitchers park in the NL like Petco or ProPlayer -- and people here would be salivating over his numbers neglecting the difference between the NL and AL and the Launching pad the Sox pitch in compared to the cavernous stadiums others call home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Question for all. What teams (How Many) have a better #3 Starter than Jon Garland? Everyone acts like he is such a loser, but I think 85% of the teams in MLB would love to have him in their #3 slot. Oakland, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, New York (AL), New York (NL), Florida, Houston. Not too many I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Garland is 24 Grilli is 27 I'm basing it on MLB experience. I recall SI calling Garland a"veteran" in their 2004 MLB preview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Oakland, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, New York (AL), New York (NL), Florida, Houston. Not too many I suppose. Atlanta, San diego, Minnesota, L.A, and San Fransico So 13 out of 30 have better 3 starters this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Agreed -- Put him in an extreme pitchers park in the NL like Petco or ProPlayer -- and people here would be salivating over his numbers neglecting the difference between the NL and AL and the Launching pad the Sox pitch in compared to the cavernous stadiums others call home. Road: 6-5, 4.69, 1.34 WHIP, 18 HR, 1.39SO/BB Home:5-6, 5.27, 1.43 WHIP, 16 HR, 1.69 SO/BB Can't use the launching pad excuse with Garland, he has given up more HR on the road than home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Road: 6-5, 4.69, 1.34 WHIP, 18 HR, 1.39SO/BB Home:5-6, 5.27, 1.43 WHIP, 16 HR, 1.69 SO/BB Can't use the launching pad excuse with Garland, he has given up more HR on the road than home. Garland stinks! He's 5th starter material. Period!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Atlanta, San diego, Minnesota, L.A, and San Fransico So 13 out of 30 have better 3 starters this year. You're forgetting St. Louis, and Philly. I'd take Randy Wolf or Vicente Padilla over Garland. So that's 15 out of 29. Which isn't even close to 85%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 You're forgetting St. Louis, and Philly. I'd take Randy Wolf or Vicente Padilla over Garland. So that's 15 out of 29. Which isn't even close to 85%. Wow suprising that i missed st. louis but the phillies have no one really outside of wolf and padilla. Do not include milton because he sucks and millwood has been pretty s***ty this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Wow suprising that i missed st. louis but the phillies have no one really outside of wolf and padilla. Do not include milton because he sucks and millwood has been pretty s***ty this year. Yeah, but coming into this year Millwood was their #1, Milton was #2, and I think Wolf was their #3 because Padilla was hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Road: 6-5, 4.69, 1.34 WHIP, 18 HR, 1.39SO/BB Home:5-6, 5.27, 1.43 WHIP, 16 HR, 1.69 SO/BB Can't use the launching pad excuse with Garland, he has given up more HR on the road than home. And yet he has a better record and ERA on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Yeah, but coming into this year Millwood was their #1, Milton was #2, and I think Wolf was their #3 because Padilla was hurt. Who puts milton as their second starter. Honestly? I don't care if you prefer righty,lefty,righty and so on. You just can't rely on him as the second starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 What really pisses me off is that everyone is acting like Grilli is doing as well or better then Jon. Please wake up. Jon has been very consistant about keeping us in games and has gone lots of times giving up 4 ER's or less over at least 6. He also has racked up some quality starts. Jason has been getting lucky but there is no way he could do what Jon does at the major league level over a full season. People that are saying things like that are dumb. There, I said it, they are dumb. However...the expectations for Grilli are for him to come in here, give us innings, and keep the team in the game...that IS his job. Jon Garland's job is to not only keep the team in the game, but to win more often then he loses, and in doing so, his ERA will be decent. 11-11 is not good enough for what many expected from Garland. BTW...Garland is supposed to be a ground-ball pitcher, due to the fact that he is a sinkerball pitcher. This makes complete sense, correct? Then, if so, someone can explain to me why his GO-AO ratio is 1.25, instead of around 2 or 3 like a sinkerballer's should be. There is a direct correlation of how well a sinkerballer pitches when you look at his GO-AO ratio. Kevin Brown, for example, is having a much worse year this year then he did last year. Anyone think the fact that his GO-AO ratio has dropped 2 full points(from 3.25 last year to 1.25 this year) has anything to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Then, if so, someone can explain to me why his GO-AO ratio is 1.25, instead of around 2 or 3 like a sinkerballer's should be. There is a direct correlation of how well a sinkerballer pitches when you look at his GO-AO ratio. Kevin Brown, for example, is having a much worse year this year then he did last year. Anyone think the fact that his GO-AO ratio has dropped 2 full points(from 3.25 last year to 1.25 this year) has anything to do with it? From a couple yankee forums i have heard that he is still pretty effective but he no longer has the nasty drop on his sinkers. Alot of of his breaking ball have been left up in the zone also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 BTW...Garland is supposed to be a ground-ball pitcher, due to the fact that he is a sinkerball pitcher. This makes complete sense, correct? Then, if so, someone can explain to me why his GO-AO ratio is 1.25, instead of around 2 or 3 like a sinkerballer's should be. There is a direct correlation of how well a sinkerballer pitches when you look at his GO-AO ratio. Kevin Brown, for example, is having a much worse year this year then he did last year. Anyone think the fact that his GO-AO ratio has dropped 2 full points(from 3.25 last year to 1.25 this year) has anything to do with it? JG is a GB pitcher -- He's not an Extreme GB pitcher (Lowe, Hudson, Webb) -- There aren't many guys in baseball that can mantain a ratio greater than 2:1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 And yet he has a better record and ERA on the road. Compare his home/road splits to Buehrle's and Garcia's Buehrle: Road: 6-3, 2.77ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 11HR, 2.50 SO/BB Home:9-7, 5.02ERA, 1.42 WHIP, 22HR, 3.50 SO/BB Garcia: Road: 5-1, 3.86ERA, 1.02 WHIP, 5HR, 3.00 SO/BB Home:3-3, 5.37ERA, 1.40 WHIP, 9HR, 3.10 SO/BB Garland: Road: 6-5, 4.69ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 18 HR, 1.39 SO/BB Home:5-6, 5.27ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 16 HR, 1.69 SO/BB Having a road record that is ONE game better than a your home ballpark isn't too special, especially if your home ballpark is considered to be a "launching pad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Question for all. What teams (How Many) have a better #3 Starter than Jon Garland? Everyone acts like he is such a loser, but I think 85% of the teams in MLB would love to have him in their #3 slot. --Exactly and also amend that to, what small market teams have a better No. 3 starter than Garland. Cause we are a small market team with Dork running the show. Considering our payroll, Garland is PERFECT for our rotation. He's good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Question for all. What teams (How Many) have a better #3 Starter than Jon Garland? Everyone acts like he is such a loser, but I think 85% of the teams in MLB would love to have him in their #3 slot. --Exactly and also amend that to, what small market teams have a better No. 3 starter than Garland. Cause we are a small market team with Dork running the show. Considering our payroll, Garland is PERFECT for our rotation. He's good enough. I believe JD's question was already answered by qwerty, 3E8, and yours truly. FOR SURE: Oakland, Boston, Yanks, Cubs, Florida, Houston, St. Louis. STRONG CASE: San Diego, L.A., Atlanta, Twins. A CASE: Cleveland, Mets, Toronto, Philly. That's close to 85% isn't it? Small Market teams: Twins, Indians, Florida, Oakland, Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 We cannot give up on another young pitcher in my mind. The backlash would be too great if KW traded Jon, and he really came on next season. Look at Jake Peavy's season last year compared to this year's. 2003 - 12-11, 156 K's, 82 BB's, 4.11 ERA. 2004 - 14-6, 162 K's, 52 BB's, 2.25 ERA. Also look at Oliver Perez's numbers. 2003 - 4-7, 5.38 ERA with San Diego. 0-3, 5.87 ERA with Pittsburgh. 2004 - 10-10, 3.14 ERA, 225 K's, 75 BB's. Jon would be a perfect 5th starter for us next season, and there wouldn't be as much pressure on him to perform, if we signed a top of the line starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 We cannot give up on another young pitcher in my mind. The backlash would be too great if KW traded Jon, and he really came on next season. Look at Jake Peavy's season last year compared to this year's. 2003 - 12-11, 156 K's, 82 BB's, 4.11 ERA. 2004 - 14-6, 162 K's, 52 BB's, 2.25 ERA. Also look at Oliver Perez's numbers. 2003 - 4-7, 5.38 ERA with San Diego. 0-3, 5.87 ERA with Pittsburgh. 2004 - 10-10, 3.14 ERA, 225 K's, 75 BB's. Jon would be a perfect 5th starter for us next season, and there wouldn't be as much pressure on him to perform, if we signed a top of the line starter. Too bad Garland is pitching in his 4th full season unlike Peavy and Perez whom are in their 2nd full seasons. Their numbers have progressively gotten better, whereas Garland's have been either getting worse or staying mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Too bad Garland is pitching in his 4th full season unlike Peavy and Perez whom are in their 2nd full seasons. Their numbers have progressively gotten better, whereas Garland's have been either getting worse or staying mediocre. If Garland was pitching in a park like PETCO he would have far better numbers no doubt. But he's still only 24, been pitching in the majors for 3 or 4 years now, and to me if we trade him it'll be Kip Wells all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 /unrelated tidbit... Peavy should get enough inning to win the NL era title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 We cannot give up on another young pitcher in my mind. The backlash would be too great if KW traded Jon, and he really came on next season. Look at Jake Peavy's season last year compared to this year's. 2003 - 12-11, 156 K's, 82 BB's, 4.11 ERA. 2004 - 14-6, 162 K's, 52 BB's, 2.25 ERA. Also look at Oliver Perez's numbers. 2003 - 4-7, 5.38 ERA with San Diego. 0-3, 5.87 ERA with Pittsburgh. 2004 - 10-10, 3.14 ERA, 225 K's, 75 BB's. Jon would be a perfect 5th starter for us next season, and there wouldn't be as much pressure on him to perform, if we signed a top of the line starter. They did not have 3-4 years like garland has had to step up. That is a big difference about those three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 They did not have 3-4 years like garland has had to step up. That is a big difference about those three. I probably shouldn't have used those two as an example, Jason Marquis probably would have been better, but you can try to see the point I'm making at least. We trade Garland, it'll come back to haunt us, because he'll pitch real well for some other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 /unrelated tidbit... Peavy should get enough inning to win the NL era title. I drafted Peavy in about the 5th last round of a Fantasy Draft, and he's probably been my best pitcher. If it wasn't for him arm injury mid - season, he could be NL Cy Young material no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I probably shouldn't have used those two as an example, Jason Marquis probably would have been better, but you can try to see the point I'm making at least. We trade Garland, it'll come back to haunt us, because he'll pitch real well for some other team. What if we trade him for someone who is talented and can fill one of our other holes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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