Carl Everett

[Guest JimH]

but stating it was merely shortsighted, if not pointless to trade for Carl again in the first place.

IMO, adding a bat when you've lost your best two bats isn't pointless. Particularly where the Sox were in the standings at the time. Plus, he'd just been in the clubhouse the previous year and all reports were positive.

 

Backup plan for a corner OF spot, and backup plan for a DH who has been frequently injured and is aging?

 

Sounds like planning ahead to me.

 

Now of course, it may or may not work out in 2005, we'll ahve to wait and see.

 

He was basically acquired to be a DH, to take Frank Thomas' place. Again, I can't defend him not being in top shape, but it was certainly less of an issue in that he was being brought in almost exclusively to hit.

[Rex Hudler]

IMO, adding a bat when you've lost your best two bats isn't pointless.  Particularly where the Sox were in the standings at the time.  Plus, he'd just been in the clubhouse the previous year and all reports were positive.

 

Backup plan for a corner OF spot, and backup plan for a DH who has been frequently injured and is aging?

 

Sounds like planning ahead to me.

 

Now of course, it may or may not work out in 2005, we'll ahve to wait and see.

 

He was basically acquired to be a DH, to take Frank Thomas' place.  Again, I can't defend him not being in top shape, but it was certainly less of an issue in that he was being brought in almost exclusively to hit.

But he hadn't hit all year! He only hits one out of every three years! It doesn't take rocket science to see this.

[Guest JimH]

But he hadn't hit all year!  He only hits one out of every three years!  It doesn't take rocket science to see this.

He was hurting at the time, and was getting over the shoulder injury.

 

It also doesn't take rocket science to know it's tough to hit with a shoulder injury.

 

What did he end up hitting this year, for the Sox? Was it that bad? No, I don't think it was.

 

Get past it man. Any GM who does nothing while his team loses two big bats and the team is still in the race will get drawn and quartered. He trades for a guy he knows, and gets beat up because the guy is supposedly moody, hurt, hits once every three years, whatever. What about Rauch? You were talking about Rauch being a bad apple. Rauch hasn't even pitched well in one out of three years.

 

Rauch and Majewski aside, Everett is a viable option for either an OF position in 2005 or good insurance in case Thomas goes down again. It was a trade to help this year, with an eye toward next year. I don't see what is so awful about that. What they gave up was two pitchers who needed a fresh start anyway.

[qwerty]

What did he end up hitting this year, for the Sox?  Was it that bad?  No, I don't think it was.

.266, 5 homeruns, 21 rbi's and a an obp of .320 is not exactly what i consider good.

[fathom]

I still don't get what people see in Everett to justify KW trading away 5 solid to good prospects for him. He would be classified as one of the worst DH in the AL with those numbers, based on a full season.

[Rex Hudler]

You keep bringing out Rauch, Jim, I don't. Rauch is not the issue here. Going after Everett again is. He was coming off an injury and fat and out of shape, yet he was supposed to help this year? Now he is going to make $4 million while Ozzie threatens him with bench time next year.

 

It was a stupid move. If a move had to be made, another could have. It was a reactionary move, pure and simple. Get over it.

[GoodAsGould]

the first trade we did for everett was traded some decent prospects and he helped us out.. if anything it wasnt his fault we lost last year..... this time we gave them junk and he has been junk for us.... i guess you get what you give

[Guest JimH]

You keep bringing out Rauch, Jim, I don't.  Rauch is not the issue here.  Going after Everett again is.  He was coming off an injury and fat and out of shape, yet he was supposed to help this year?  Now he is going to make $4 million while Ozzie threatens him with bench time next year.

 

It was a stupid move.  If a move had to be made, another could have.  It was a reactionary move, pure and simple.  Get over it.

Rex, funny you don't bring up Rauch when it doesn't suit your POV.

 

YOU were the one who trashed Rauch all along. Who exactly did you think the Sox were going to get, in terms of a bat, once Maggs and Frank went down? Who was available? Who would've fit in the clubhouse?

 

You criticized Everett for being moody, but neglect to mention how many times you posted unflattering things about Rauch's attitude. It is in fact an issue with Rauch, because that's what the trade entailed. Isn't a trade judged on who is traded for whom?

 

You still haven't addressed my point about Everett being a viable (not ideal, but viable) option for an OF spot next year if the Sox can't get anything better. You also haven't addressed whether or not Everett wouldn't be a good insurance policy if an aging and increasingly brittle Frank Thomas gets hurt again.

 

I pointed out, very clearly, why it was not only a trade for the here and now, but also for the future, the future being 2005. If Everett puts up anything close to good numbers, $4M is not out of line.

 

I think you have a personal bias against Everett, stemming from your perspective on prospects (we trade too many, i.e. The Jim Fainter Show).

 

You really should get over that Rex.

 

I am not a huge Everett fan, but what you don't address is how fans and critics would've hung KW if he'd done nothing. Nor have you stated who would've been better for him to acquire. Every time this guy trades a prospect, he's mud in your book. And then you pick apart the ballplayers performance to fit your POV. He hit .266, I said it was not bad, I certainly didn't say it was great.

 

Extrapolating it out and saying he would be the worst DH in the AL is bulls***. You can take Ross Gload's numbers and say he'd be the best. Doubtful in both cases.(I'm addressing a couple posts at once here).

 

We all seem to agree Maggs is a goner. The Sox may have to trade Lee. Why is it not a good option to have a proven veteran ready to fill in at two positions, OF and DH, if that's the way it shakes out? I'm not saying Everett is God's gift. Nor can you say you can look into your Carl Everett Crystal Ball you seem to possess and state, "Well, 2005 is not one of his once-in-every-three-years-he'll-hit, so therefore he'll suck." If you can do that, then I can see for sure Frank will get hurt and the Sox will need a veteran bat to DH. Doesn't work that way, sorry.

 

You state with your usual authoritative tone that another move could have been made. What are your connections, your sources? How do you know, with such authority? Was there a GM conference in Birmingham or something?

 

If reactionary moves are also made with the next season in mind, and two guys who apparantly have no future with the team are traded, hey, count me in. And just to ask, how many DH's are in great physical condition? Have you seen Calvin Pickering, lol? Have you seen the Tigers DH? For that matter, Frank Thomas? I'm not making excuses for the guy not being in Lance Armstrong shape, but hey, hasn't Ozzie threatened Garland with bench time too ... and isn't Garland in good shape?

 

Last thing ... if my two best hitters go down again, I damn well want my GM to do SOMETHING. Not just sit around so all the second guessers won't criticize him for bringing in a guy they've got a crystal ball on.

[Guest JimH]

the first trade we did for everett was traded some decent prospects and he helped us out.. if anything it wasnt his fault we lost last year..... this time we gave them junk and he has been junk for us.... i guess you get what you give

I think this is a fair assessment.

 

I'd rather give up nothing and get a great player. Too bad we're in real life here though.

[Rex Hudler]

Rex, funny you don't bring up Rauch when it doesn't suit your POV.

 

YOU were the one who trashed Rauch all along.  Who exactly did you think the Sox were going to get, in terms of a bat, once Maggs and Frank went down?  Who was available?  Who would've fit in the clubhouse?

 

You criticized Everett for being moody, but neglect to mention how many times you posted unflattering things about Rauch's attitude.  It is in fact an issue with Rauch, because that's what the trade entailed.  Isn't a trade judged on who is traded for whom?

 

You still haven't addressed my point about Everett being a viable (not ideal, but viable) option for an OF spot next year if the Sox can't get anything better.  You also haven't addressed whether or not Everett wouldn't be a good insurance policy if an aging and increasingly brittle Frank Thomas gets hurt again.

 

I pointed out, very clearly, why it was not only a trade for the here and now, but also for the future, the future being 2005.  If Everett puts up anything close to good numbers, $4M is not out of line.

 

I think you have a personal bias against Everett, stemming from your perspective on prospects (we trade too many, i.e. The Jim Fainter Show).

 

You really should get over that Rex.

 

I am not a huge Everett fan, but what you don't address is how fans and critics would've hung KW if he'd done nothing.  Nor have you stated who would've been better for him to acquire.  Every time this guy trades a prospect, he's mud in your book.  And then you pick apart the ballplayers performance to fit your POV.  He hit .266, I said it was not bad, I certainly didn't say it was great.

 

Extrapolating it out and saying he would be the worst DH in the AL is bulls***.  You can take Ross Gload's numbers and say he'd be the best.  Doubtful in both cases.(I'm addressing a couple posts at once here).

 

We all seem to agree Maggs is a goner.  The Sox may have to trade Lee.  Why is it not a good option to have a proven veteran ready to fill in at two positions, OF and DH, if that's the way it shakes out?  I'm not saying Everett is God's gift.  Nor can you say you can look into your Carl Everett Crystal Ball you seem to possess and state, "Well, 2005 is not one of his once-in-every-three-years-he'll-hit, so therefore he'll suck."  If you can do that, then I can see for sure Frank will get hurt and the Sox will need a veteran bat to DH.  Doesn't work that way, sorry.

 

You state with your usual authoritative tone that another move could have been made.  What are your connections, your sources?  How do you know, with such authority?  Was there a GM conference in Birmingham or something?

 

If reactionary moves are also made with the next season in mind, and two guys who apparantly have no future with the team are traded, hey, count me in.  And just to ask, how many DH's are in great physical condition?  Have you seen Calvin Pickering, lol?  Have you seen the Tigers DH?  For that matter, Frank Thomas?  I'm not making excuses for the guy not being in Lance Armstrong shape, but hey, hasn't Ozzie threatened Garland with bench time too ... and isn't Garland in good shape?

 

Last thing ... if my two best hitters go down again, I damn well want my GM to do SOMETHING.  Not just sit around so all the second guessers won't criticize him for bringing in a guy they've got a crystal ball on.

Jim, I don't know what your fascination with Rauch is....... When did I say we shouldn't have traded Rauch??? Hell, I would have traded Rauch for a box of pearls, but that has nothing to do with this argument.

 

My point is, that getting Everett was a bad move and it was. Call it an insurance policy for next year if you want, but when have the Sox had an extra $4.5 million for insurance?? To think that Everett would help this year was overly optimistic. To think that acquiring an out of shape, injured OF who is only good once every three years in hopes he will get his s*** together for next year is like throwing darts blindfolded. Yes I know KW liked him from the year before. But that is what blinded KW. He should have been able to see that Everett was a long shot to help the Sox again.

 

I am saying the same exact things I argued with people the day he was re-acquired, so this is not hindsight at all.

 

If Everett gets his s*** together and has a big year next year that that's great. But I certainly wouldn't bet a limited budget on it. Especially when OF's that hit .265 with 17 HR and 60 RBI are not that hard to come by, nor do they often cost $4.5 million.

[winninguglyin83]

Amen.

 

my greatest fear is that next year we'll pick up some ham and cheeser in July by giving up Sweeney or Brian Anderson.

 

We have to quit cannibalizing our farm system.

[DBAHO]

Amen.

 

my greatest fear is that next year we'll pick up some ham and cheeser in July by giving up Sweeney or Brian Anderson.

 

We have to quit cannibalizing our farm system.

Sweeney's stats next season will probably determine whether or not he'll be dealt, it's quite a big season for him, I'm confident he'll put up the goods though.

[YASNY]

I'm with Jim on this one. You have to take into consideration the timing of the Everett deal. At the time, Frank was on the DL for what was then an extended period of time. We were hoping he'd be back in late Sept. Magglio was back off the DL. So KW was acquiring a DH, not an outfielder. There was no reason to think that Everett wouldn't hit as his nagging injuries healed.

 

There is no doubt about Magglio being active when that trade was made. I went to a Sox Rangers game in July. It was Magglio's first appearence in RF after coming off the DL. It was also Everett's first game with the Sox this year.

[Guest JimH]

Jim, I don't know what your fascination with Rauch is.......  When did I say we shouldn't have traded Rauch???    Hell, I would have traded Rauch for a box of pearls, but that has nothing to do with this argument. 

 

My point is, that getting Everett was a bad move and it was.  Call it an insurance policy for next year if you want, but when have the Sox had an extra $4.5 million for insurance??  To think that Everett would help this year was overly optimistic.  To think that acquiring an out of shape, injured OF who is only good once every three years in hopes he will get his s*** together for next year is like throwing darts blindfolded.  Yes I know KW liked him from the year before.  But that is what blinded KW.  He should have been able to see that Everett was a long shot to help the Sox again. 

 

I am saying the same exact things I argued with people the day he was re-acquired, so this is not hindsight at all. 

 

If Everett gets his s*** together and has a big year next year that that's great.  But I certainly wouldn't bet a limited budget on it.  Especially when OF's that hit .265 with 17 HR and 60 RBI are not that hard to come by, nor do they often cost $4.5 million.

1. They got him to be a DH, not an OF

 

2. What other bat was out there that they could've gotten? You said another move could have been made. Like who? And for what?

[SuperSteve]

1.  They got him to be a DH, not an OF

 

2.  What other bat was out there that they could've gotten?  You said another move could have been made.  Like who?  And for what?

Its not like they tried to get Delgado, and Delgado didn't want to come... :rolly

 

I agree Jim.

[southsider2k5]

Its not like they tried to get Delgado, and Delgado didn't want to come... :rolly

 

I agree Jim.

And Larry Walker...

[israel4ever]

This team would be better off in 2005, with no one named Alomar, Everett or Crede on it's roster.

[Rex Hudler]

1.  They got him to be a DH, not an OF

 

2.  What other bat was out there that they could've gotten?  You said another move could have been made.  Like who?  And for what?

So they got him to be a DH when at the time they didn't know Frank was out for the year? And where did they think he would play next year?

 

I don't know every single player that might have been available then, but you can't tell me he was the ONLY one. The point is, KW went back to familiar ground, which was a mistake given everything I have already mentioned. He could have found someone else. He could have been more patient. There were still two more weeks before the tradign deadline.

 

All I am saying is that I said it the day the trade was made and I am saying it now. I have been consistent and so far, right. Picking up Carl Everett was a bad move. We can argue all you want, but that is not going to change. If you want to disagree with me, fine. But I still say it was a dumb move and I'm sticking with it. I am confident the end result will show I was right.

 

I understand the logic behind the move, I just think it was flawed. It was done with short-sighted thinking. I'm repeating myself here so I am done. Get your final word in and let's move on.

[kapkomet]

I'm with Jim on this one.  You have to take into consideration the timing of the Everett deal.  At the time, Frank was on the DL for what was then an extended period of time.  We were hoping he'd be back in late Sept.  Magglio was back off the DL.  So KW was acquiring a DH, not an outfielder.  There was no reason to think that Everett wouldn't hit as his nagging injuries healed. 

 

There is no doubt about Magglio being active when that trade was made.  I went to a Sox Rangers game in July.  It was Magglio's first appearence in RF after coming off the DL.  It was also Everett's first game with the Sox this year.

whoa.

 

which game did you go to?

 

Edit:

 

I was at that game too... the first Monday after the All-Star Break.

 

Where did you sit? Too bad I didn't know you were there!

Edited September 29, 2004 by kapkomet

[SoxFanForever]

So they got him to be a DH when at the time they didn't know Frank was out for the year?  And where did they think he would play next year? 

 

I don't know every single player that might have been available then, but you can't tell me he was the ONLY one.  The point is, KW went back to familiar ground, which was a mistake given everything I have already mentioned.  He could have found someone else.  He could have been more patient.  There were still two more weeks before the tradign deadline.

 

All I am saying is that I said it the day the trade was made and I am saying it now.  I have been consistent and so far, right.  Picking up Carl Everett was a bad move.  We can argue all you want, but that is not going to change.  If you want to disagree with me, fine.  But I still say it was a dumb move and I'm sticking with it.  I am confident the end result will show I was right. 

 

I understand the logic behind the move, I just think it was flawed.  It was done with short-sighted thinking.  I'm repeating myself here so I am done.  Get your final word in and let's move on.

The White Sox being short-sighted?

 

 

I agree with you on most of what you have said Rex.

[Guest JimH]

So they got him to be a DH when at the time they didn't know Frank was out for the year?  And where did they think he would play next year? 

 

I don't know every single player that might have been available then, but you can't tell me he was the ONLY one.  The point is, KW went back to familiar ground, which was a mistake given everything I have already mentioned.  He could have found someone else.  He could have been more patient.  There were still two more weeks before the tradign deadline.

 

All I am saying is that I said it the day the trade was made and I am saying it now.  I have been consistent and so far, right.  Picking up Carl Everett was a bad move.  We can argue all you want, but that is not going to change.  If you want to disagree with me, fine.  But I still say it was a dumb move and I'm sticking with it.  I am confident the end result will show I was right. 

 

I understand the logic behind the move, I just think it was flawed.  It was done with short-sighted thinking.  I'm repeating myself here so I am done.  Get your final word in and let's move on.

For about the 5th time Rex, they got him to replace Frank because Frank was hurt and was going to be out for a while. No one knew how long Frank would be out, or God forbid it was a more serious injury that would affect him in '05 (and it might). What is so hard for you to realize that that's planning ahead, other than you don't like Everett? As for '05 ... again, for about the 5th time ... he gives them options. One, as they head into the trade market this winter, and two, if someone gets hurt or doesn't bounce back (Frank?).

 

You say it was a mistake, but don't back anything up. It's a mistake because according to your crystal ball, Everett will have a bad year? It's a mistake because you don't think Everett is worth the $4M because one, you know he'll perform poorly, and two, you know exactly who the Sox will move and what their budget will be?

 

You keep saying Williams could have found someone else. I keep saying "like who"? They later went after Delgado and Walker supposedly and both turned them down. I can't think of one proven lefty bat that was available and could be had for two minor league pitchers. You also don't look at that part of it ... namely, who was traded for Everett. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but it does matter in terms of evaluating the trade. If the Sox had traded Sweeney for Everett, I'm pissed right along with you.

 

You're right just because you say you're right? :rolly Oh ... ok. I didn't know it worked like that, I'll remember that for the next time. That must be because your crystal ball tells you that Everett will not have one of his "one of every three good years". Please tell me how the other players will perform too so I can make a decision on my tickets.

 

I sure am glad you're not working for the White Sox because if you can't (won't?) see how the trade was made to give them a shot in '04 and give them options for 2005, something is amiss with your long term vision. You say Williams could have been more patient and waited another two weeks to pick up someone else. Wow.

Isn't there a risk the price goes up closer to the deadline? Wasn't it a risk the Sox could have floundered even more in those two weeks? That must be some crystal ball you have there.

 

So, apparantly it was flawed logic solely because it was Carl Everett. Any other mystical player who was supposedly available and could've been supposedly acquired closer to the trade deadline (cheaper, no doubt) would have had a better contract situation, performed better, and would not have either had injuries or gotten injured either. Seems to me that "wishing on a star", or a crystal ball, is flawed logic.

[fathom]

How about the fact that Everett is becoming old and broken down? I just can't see any way that a Sox fan would be content with him starting in the outfield next year. Ozzieball....I guess it means playing terrible defenders who are injury prone. Maybe we can get Piazza or Alou also!!!

[babybearhater]

Snap!!!!

 

 

[Guest JimH]

How about the fact that Everett is becoming old and broken down?

Like Frank Thomas?

[fathom]

Like Frank Thomas?

Yep, I have a lot of concern that Frank's foot problems will last the rest of his career. Frank isn't getting any smaller, and the more weight you put on your feet, the more stress you'll put on them. I know it would be a PR nightmare, but I would not be upset if the Sox somehow traded Frank or got him not to exercise his option. I love Frank and what he brings to the table, but the Sox could be better off using his money on other players. Why not make Carlos and Konerko the cornerstones of the team?