YASNY Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Before entertaining that possibility, the Marlins have to resolve Carl Pavano's situation. Pavano also is a free agent. Losing him would likely require the Marlins to pursue another starter and preclude them from making Benitez an offer. Keeping Pavano would probably require no less than a two-year, $14 million commitment. Teams like the Cubs, White Sox and Orioles may become suitors for Benitez, but most of the high-spending teams already have closers. Two noteworthy items ... the salary expectations mentioned regarding Pavano. At that money, go get him Sox. The other mentions the Sox as a possible suiter for Benitez. Sun-Sentinel link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I would be shocked if Benitez doesnt sign with the Cubs. They're going to be in the market for a closer, and Dusty loves to sign those minorities so that they perform better in the heat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I would be shocked if Benitez doesnt sign with the Cubs. They're going to be in the market for a closer, and Dusty loves to sign those minorities so that they perform better in the heat! :huh What in the Heck is being a minority have to do with performing in the Heat???? HUH!! Didn't undertand one bit of your post :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 :huh What in the Heck is being a minority do with the Heat???? HUH!! Didn't undertand one bit of your post Were you out of the country last year Josh? Well, in case you were, Dusty went on the record saying he thought minorities performed better in the heat than non-minorities. He was 100 percent serious, but of course the Cubs, MLB, and the media gave him basically no grief for the comments he made. If a white manager would have said something like that, they would have been fired in a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Were you out of the country last year Josh? Well, in case you were, Dusty went on the record saying he thought minorities performed better in the heat than non-minorities. He was 100 percent serious, but of course the Cubs, MLB, and the media gave him basically no grief for the comments he made. If a white manager would have said something like that, they would have been fired in a second. Ahenmmmm Ahhhhhh I've been out of the country for 23 years DOH!!! :banghead Race has nothing to do with it. Just shows how a Moron Dusty is. And yes i remember those comments, He was b****slapped by the media for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Two noteworthy items ... the salary expectations mentioned regarding Pavano. At that money, go get him Sox. The other mentions the Sox as a possible suiter for Benitez. Sun-Sentinel link I saw this little piece last night. Benitez still worries me though, everyone knows what he was like last season with the Mets and Mariners, I'm not convinced under Coop, he could have the same type of success as he has enjoyed this year. I still think Pavano will stay with the Marlins or go to the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I saw this little piece last night. Benitez still worries me though, everyone knows what he was like last season with the Mets and Mariners, I'm not convinced under Coop, he could have the same type of success as he has enjoyed this year. I still think Pavano will stay with the Marlins or go to the Yankees. Considering our success rate with closers, and Coop's success rate with closers, I am not one to go out and pay for one. it seems every time we pick up a closer, they go crappy on us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogs35 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I would be shocked if Benitez doesnt sign with the Cubs. They're going to be in the market for a closer, and Dusty loves to sign those minorities so that they perform better in the heat! we all know what happenes when the cubs sign a former marlin closer? see antonio alfonseca years with the cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Ahenmmmm Ahhhhhh I've been out of the country for 23 years DOH!!! :banghead Race has nothing to do with it. Just shows how a Moron Dusty is. And yes i remember those comments, He was b****slapped by the media for them I don't know about that, I believe people of different ethnicities definitely handle the cold differently, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Considering our success rate with closers, and Coop's success rate with closers, I am not one to go out and pay for one. it seems every time we pick up a closer, they go crappy on us Benitez's numbers last season compared to this season. Also his numbers would inflate SIGNIFICANTLY from pitchin at the Cell compared to Pro Player. 2003 - 2.96 ERA, 21 SV, 8 BLSV, 75 K's, 41 BB's. 2004 - 1.22 ERA, 44 SV, 4 BLSV, 61 K's, 20 BB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 No to Benitez. Too streaky. You'd be paying maximum value for a guy who will probably not pitch as well last season -- like Koch. look elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Benitez's numbers last season compared to this season. Also his numbers would inflate SIGNIFICANTLY from pitchin at the Cell compared to Pro Player. 2003 - 2.96 ERA, 21 SV, 8 BLSV, 75 K's, 41 BB's. 2004 - 1.22 ERA, 44 SV, 4 BLSV, 61 K's, 20 BB's. I dont know how inflated his numbers might get because unlike a starter he would only pitch 1 inning when he is in.. So he might not be as effected as a guy who throws 7 innings in our park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I don't know about that, I believe people of different ethnicities definitely handle the cold differently, lol. Basically Dusty said that blacks could handle the heat better than white players. He alluded to their African heritage. There was nothing said about handling the cold. It was pretty stupid comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWatcher Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I don't see the Sox signing Pavan or Benitez. When was the last time the Sox outbid the mest of Major League Baseball for a premier free agent? Albert Belle? I don't see Jerry Reinsdorf getting all super-spendy with the Ownership Group's money anytime soon. The Sox have many holes to fill. In order to fill all of those holes AND sign a big money FA, Reinsdorf would have to GREATLY increase the payroll. He ain't gonna do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I don't see the Sox signing Pavan or Benitez. When was the last time the Sox outbid the mest of Major League Baseball for a premier free agent? Albert Belle? I don't see Jerry Reinsdorf getting all super-spendy with the Ownership Group's money anytime soon. The Sox have many holes to fill. In order to fill all of those holes AND sign a big money FA, Reinsdorf would have to GREATLY increase the payroll. He ain't gonna do it. While not free agents I'll say that Wells, Colon, and Garcia were all significant additions. This may have been posted here, but Gammons is saying that the Yankees are going to make a run at Pavano, so you can forget about anyone but them getting him if that is true. This may be stupid optimism, but with the new TV contract and attendance numbers going up when the Sox are in contention I expect the Sox to make a major splash in the offseason, could be trade or FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 2 years 14 mill for pavano, sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why would Pavano want to come to the Sox? Let's say the Sox offer him $14 million over 2 years. Let's also say so do the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, Dodgers and another team or two. All the offers are in the same range if not exactly the same. Why would he choose the Sox? What can the Sox offer him the other teams cannot? What would make Pavano feel better about coming to play on the South Side than staying in Miami where he has been successful and won a World Series? What would make him want to come to Chicago rather than go back to the northeast where he was born? Or to enjoy the laid back, movie star lifestyle of southern California? On any of those teams he would be a featured starter, although not necessarily a #1 or #2. Many other teams would give him a better shot at another World Series. This is something the Sox need to really consider as do fans, especially ones that just assume tossing money at a guy will get him to Chicago. Is there something the Sox can do differently or a way they can be better? So I ask everyone here......... why pick the White Sox over another team? Think unbiased and be open-minded. Consider the strengths of the other teams as well. I look forward to well thought out answers, class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why would Pavano want to come to the Sox? Let's say the Sox offer him $14 million over 2 years. Let's also say so do the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, Dodgers and another team or two. All the offers are in the same range if not exactly the same. Why would he choose the Sox? What can the Sox offer him the other teams cannot? What would make Pavano feel better about coming to play on the South Side than staying in Miami where he has been successful and won a World Series? What would make him want to come to Chicago rather than go back to the northeast where he was born? Or to enjoy the laid back, movie star lifestyle of southern California? On any of those teams he would be a featured starter, although not necessarily a #1 or #2. Many other teams would give him a better shot at another World Series. This is something the Sox need to really consider as do fans, especially ones that just assume tossing money at a guy will get him to Chicago. Is there something the Sox can do differently or a way they can be better? So I ask everyone here......... why pick the White Sox over another team? Think unbiased and be open-minded. Consider the strengths of the other teams as well. I look forward to well thought out answers, class. What?! I get out of school only to come on to a message board and find more school?! AAGHHHHH!!!! There is no real reason one would want to come to Chicago...the Sox do not have a history of winning...they do not have a core of guys set in place that will for sure win a lot of games...they do not have super-coaches, they do not have a bright future(in fact, I would go as far as say that the future is looking gloomy), and they are in an AL Central that is slowly becoming a very solid division...one could argue that it is a better division then even the AL East. There are draws to Chicago, however. If Pavano came here, he would become the ace of the staff, for sure. If he cares about turning franchises around, he could come in and potentially do that too. The team does have a solid foundation for a pretty good starting rotation too. And, while the AL Central is improving, it is not yet a super-strong division with 2 dominant forces in it...Minnesota has shown that they have been the class of the division for the past 3 years, but they can be beaten, as we almost found out in 2003. Other draws to the Sox that do not affect Pavano are the Latino influence(with the team being made up of almost all latino players, and Ozzie managing it too) and the fact that it is a very good hitter's park which would increase one's value if he were to sign a short contract(given, that only applies to hitters). Also...while Chicago is a big city, playing for the White Sox helps you stay in the shadows a little bit...the Sox are basically treated like a small market club. Not enough to convince one to come to Chicago...but there is not much more going for this team, quite honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Other draws to the Sox that do not affect Pavano are the Latino influence(with the team being made up of almost all latino players, and Ozzie managing it too) and the fact that it is a very good hitter's park which would increase one's value if he were to sign a short contract(given, that only applies to hitters). All of your post included good insights. I chose to quote these two sentences because it highlights issues that can be a positive or a negative to a club, depending on the person. A good hitter's park is not an incentive for a pitcher. A clubhouse full of Latin players may make other Latin players more comfortable, but it may make others feel uncomfortable. I am still curious to others thoughts on the subject. Perhaps this should have been a new thread. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why would Pavano want to come to the Sox? Let's say the Sox offer him $14 million over 2 years. Let's also say so do the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, Dodgers and another team or two. All the offers are in the same range if not exactly the same. Why would he choose the Sox? What can the Sox offer him the other teams cannot? What would make Pavano feel better about coming to play on the South Side than staying in Miami where he has been successful and won a World Series? What would make him want to come to Chicago rather than go back to the northeast where he was born? Or to enjoy the laid back, movie star lifestyle of southern California? On any of those teams he would be a featured starter, although not necessarily a #1 or #2. Many other teams would give him a better shot at another World Series. This is something the Sox need to really consider as do fans, especially ones that just assume tossing money at a guy will get him to Chicago. Is there something the Sox can do differently or a way they can be better? So I ask everyone here......... why pick the White Sox over another team? Think unbiased and be open-minded. Consider the strengths of the other teams as well. I look forward to well thought out answers, class. It all depends on the individual. Southern California = Laid Back?!?!? I can tell you've never lived there, yikes. The traffic, for one, is probably the worst in the country. Pavano isn't married, so there'd be no influence from a spouse. That's another factor that people don't think matters in these FA situations, and it usually does. Maybe he's lived on the east coast his whole life, and is intrigued by the Midwest. Maybe he finds Chicago very appealing (many ballplayers do). Maybe NY or Boston is, in his view, too much of a pressure cooker. Maybe he knows and likes some of the guys on the team. The Miami situation is a bit unsettled, they have that whole ballpark issue up for grabs. That may, or may not, turn him off. If this whole post sounds like a bunch of maybe's and what-if's, that's because we have no idea what's going on in Pavano's head, nor do we know his likes or dislikes. What would be interesting to know is who's Pavano's agent, and what is their relationship with the White Sox. The Sox are not known as top bidders, but they are known for getting deals done with most of their own players (the obvious exception being Ordonez this year). An agent may have a fair amount of influence over where a player goes. If a team "features" a certain player in their marketing, it may open up more outside endorsements, if a player is interested. All sorts of variables, none of which we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Also, something I forgot about, was the relationship between Pavano and Ozzie. That could influence it as well, as Ozzie was 3B coach for Florida for like a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxWatcher Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 It all depends on the individual. Southern California = Laid Back?!?!? I can tell you've never lived there, yikes. The traffic, for one, is probably the worst in the country. Pavano isn't married, so there'd be no influence from a spouse. That's another factor that people don't think matters in these FA situations, and it usually does. Maybe he's lived on the east coast his whole life, and is intrigued by the Midwest. Maybe he finds Chicago very appealing (many ballplayers do). Maybe NY or Boston is, in his view, too much of a pressure cooker. Maybe he knows and likes some of the guys on the team. The Miami situation is a bit unsettled, they have that whole ballpark issue up for grabs. That may, or may not, turn him off. If this whole post sounds like a bunch of maybe's and what-if's, that's because we have no idea what's going on in Pavano's head, nor do we know his likes or dislikes. What would be interesting to know is who's Pavano's agent, and what is their relationship with the White Sox. The Sox are not known as top bidders, but they are known for getting deals done with most of their own players (the obvious exception being Ordonez this year). An agent may have a fair amount of influence over where a player goes. If a team "features" a certain player in their marketing, it may open up more outside endorsements, if a player is interested. All sorts of variables, none of which we know. 95% of FA's go to the team that makes the best offer in terms of dollars and years. I bet he'll come to Chicago if JR outbids all of the other teams interested in him. THAT is why he won't be a Sox next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 If it helps I ate breakfast at an Ihop up in the mountains this past Xmas break with Pavano their. I didn't even realize it was him until I saw a sportscenter interview a few months back when they were talking about his girlfriend Alyssa Milano. We all recognized Alyssa but had no idea who the guy she was with was, lol. By the way, she's not that hot in person. Well, thats enough of my brush with the rich and famous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 95% of FA's go to the team that makes the best offer in terms of dollars and years. I bet he'll come to Chicago if JR outbids all of the other teams interested in him. THAT is why he won't be a Sox next year. I think you're right. It would not surprise me to see Baltimore offer him 4-years, $40 mill, in all honesty. And, quite frankly, I'd rather go with a guy like Radke anyways. He knows how to throw to the AL Central, and he has thrown in the Cell before, and he has thrown well there. I want to see a control pitcher who just gives good innings after good innings on the South Side. I don't need dominance...I need solidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 So I ask everyone here......... why pick the White Sox over another team? Think unbiased and be open-minded. Consider the strengths of the other teams as well. I look forward to well thought out answers, class. We have the best post game spreads (with the occasional GM induced food fight ).. and the nicest field in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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