Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 This makes no sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Plus, in those years when we are out of the playoff race, which game is going to draw more Yankees or Indians? Red Sox or Twins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 huh? the yanks and red sox are two of the biggest road draws. what is there not to understand? Once again. If we play in a tougher division, we will lose more often, and be out of the divisional race earlier. Yes we will draw more fans for the extra Yankees/Red Sox games. But when the White Sox don't win, people don't go to the games for OTHER teams. There are still 60 other games besides the Red Sox/Yankees, and attendance will plummet because Sox fans won't pay to see 3rd or 4th place teams. Look no further than this years attendance after the Sox fell out of the race. Look at Sox attendance when they start slow. Look at Sox attendance when there are hot. There is a HUGE difference. If the Sox don't win, the Sox don't draw. And with a lot more losses, overall attendance will suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 This makes no sense Why JR would place profits over competitiveness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 No matter where the Yankees, Cubs, and Bo Sox travel to, they draw bigger crowds. I am showing the ROAD rankings of attendance. So the Yankees draw an average of 40,000+ away from Yankee Stadium. Let's look at home attendance: #1 Yankees, #12 Boston, #13 Baltimore, #25 Toronto, #30 Tampa Bay #22 White Sox, #23 Detroit, #24 Minny, #26 Cleveland, #28 Kansas City Which group do you want to be part of? Do you think we will drop down to Toronto type numbers or increase to Baltimore type numbers? With more games against the premier teams in baseball, those teams that draw national attention, are in the thick of the race, with the superstars of baseball, we will increase attendance. Now the downside is we will be closer to the Washington Generals than the Globetrotters. But from a business profit standpoint, I can see why JR would explore the idea. All in all, the negatives far outweigh the positives of moving divisions in my mind. Sox fans have shown they will come out to the Cell and support a winner, when the team is playing well. We have the best chance of doing that in the AL Central. Even if we moved divisions and bumped up our payroll to about $80 to $85 million, which is probably what Baltimore will end up spending in the next few years, it's going to be incredibly hard to make the playoffs against the Yankees and Red Sox. We have some great rivals in our division already in the Twinkies and the Tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why JR would place profits over competitiveness? This would be the ideal version of selling out to many Sox fans I feel, a chance JR probably can't take in my mind. He's hated enough by us fans already as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why JR would place profits over competitiveness? Travel would be a nightmare. This is absolute bs and unless someone shows me a link of the story I think this is some poster over at WSI shooting the bulls*** to everyone else. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN. First off, the Sox playesr won't watn the extra travel and secondly I guarandamn tee you that every team in the AL East will b**** about having to travel to Chciago. And just because the BoSox and Yanks are doing good now, doesn't eman they will be in 5 years. This entire rumor is the biggest garbage I've evern seen (not making fun of anyone here, no one here created the thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Here's what JR is thinking: I can either finish in 2nd in the Central year after year and not make any money OR I can finish 3rd year after year in the East and line my pockets nicely. See, it's not about winning. Does he really think that if the Sox moved to the East and made more money, that even with that extra money he would ever be able to match what the Bankees have?? C'mon Jerry, you gotta do a better job of fooling us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 No matter where the Yankees, Cubs, and Bo Sox travel to, they draw bigger crowds. I am showing the ROAD rankings of attendance. So the Yankees draw an average of 40,000+ away from Yankee Stadium. Let's look at home attendance: #1 Yankees, #12 Boston, #13 Baltimore, #25 Toronto, #30 Tampa Bay #22 White Sox, #23 Detroit, #24 Minny, #26 Cleveland, #28 Kansas City Which group do you want to be part of? Do you think we will drop down to Toronto type numbers or increase to Baltimore type numbers? With more games against the premier teams in baseball, those teams that draw national attention, are in the thick of the race, with the superstars of baseball, we will increase attendance. Now the downside is we will be closer to the Washington Generals than the Globetrotters. But from a business profit standpoint, I can see why JR would explore the idea. You aren't getting what I am saying at all. The Devil Rays, Blue Jays, and Orioles ROAD attendance is skewed WAY upward by playing 10 games a year at both Yankee stadium which leads MLB in attendance, and Fenway which was sold out for the season. If they those teams played those same road games here at Comiskey are you trying to tell me that they would draw the same totals as in NYC and BOS? In other words those numbers are not indicative of how well those teams fans show up at other teams parks. The Devil Rays would not draw a sell out at Comiskey, the same way that they would draw a sell out in Boston. So to use a skewed road attendance number as a predictor of a Chicago attendance is a faulty basis for an arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 i don't recall players complaining about travel when we were in the same division as california, oakland and seattle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Once again. If we play in a tougher division, we will lose more often, and be out of the divisional race earlier. Yes we will draw more fans for the extra Yankees/Red Sox games. But when the White Sox don't win, people don't go to the games for OTHER teams. There are still 60 other games besides the Red Sox/Yankees, and attendance will plummet because Sox fans won't pay to see 3rd or 4th place teams. Look no further than this years attendance after the Sox fell out of the race. Look at Sox attendance when they start slow. Look at Sox attendance when there are hot. There is a HUGE difference. If the Sox don't win, the Sox don't draw. And with a lot more losses, overall attendance will suffer. Most seasons we are out of the playoff race. OK, the once a decade when we win the division our attendance will be better. The rest of the time, it will be better. Perhaps attendance would not have fallen off so dramatically if we were playing the Yankees and not the Tigers. Let's follow my logic. The team is out of the race. Who's in town? The Tigers, I can see Pudge. The team is out of the race. Who's in town? The Yankees, I can see Jeter, A-Rod, etc. I can understand why Sox attendance would take such a nose dive. And the Sox outdrew each of the past 3 seasons, and we were further out earlier. So give Sox fans credit for also being baseball fans. We are not such a group of fair weather fans. Of course winning increases attendance, but so does good baseball and superstars. You may prefer to watch the Sox beat up on a s***ty team, but there are other people who enjoy good baseball. The battle is for the casual fan. The hardcore attend the games regardless of standings. The casual fan will come out to see great teams and superstar players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 That's assinine. We can win in the candy-ass division we're in. Why would we want to risk going 3-16 and 5-14 against the Yankees and Red Sox every year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Most seasons we are out of the playoff race. OK, the once a decade when we win the division our attendance will be better. The rest of the time, it will be better. If we moved to the AL East, I guarantee you our chances at making the playoffs every year would plummet. The AL Central is the BEST chance for this team to make the playoffs out of ANY division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 You aren't getting what I am saying at all. The Devil Rays, Blue Jays, and Orioles ROAD attendance is skewed WAY upward by playing 10 games a year at both Yankee stadium which leads MLB in attendance, and Fenway which was sold out for the season. If they those teams played those same road games here at Comiskey are you trying to tell me that they would draw the same totals as in NYC and BOS? In other words those numbers are not indicative of how well those teams fans show up at other teams parks. The Devil Rays would not draw a sell out at Comiskey, the same way that they would draw a sell out in Boston. So to use a skewed road attendance number as a predictor of a Chicago attendance is a faulty basis for an arguement. Look at Baltimore, Tampa, and Torontos HOME attendance. I believe we will inch closer to Baltimore than Toronto with better games and more national exposure. Do you want to compete in the big leagues or try and be second fiddle of the worst division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Has Gammons ever been right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why would JR put baseball down a path of a work stoppage when he had the best white sox team in 80 years and the best chance at a World Series? Because he's an idiot. Excellent point. This man is capable of anything but I dont think this is gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 And just to be clear, I believe it would be a disaster from a competitive side, but I believe JR would make more money. That is why I could see him exploring the idea. Plus he would have a built in excuse every season for not winning. No pressure, just cash the checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 i don't recall players complaining about travel when we were in the same division as california, oakland and seattle... Good point, but that was prior to the new divisions and the new scheduling which truly makes travel a whole lot better. Its not too bad of a flight to Minny, kC or Detroit and Cleveland isn't that bad. However...if MLB was goign to f***up the division or what not by changing teams around, I guarantee you one thing, if they didn't have a problem with the Sox playing all these games somewhere and the Sox actually wanted to move, they'd be in the Al West becauase that division needs an extra team. Anyway...pure bulls***, thats what this rumor is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Most seasons we are out of the playoff race. OK, the once a decade when we win the division our attendance will be better. The rest of the time, it will be better. Perhaps attendance would not have fallen off so dramatically if we were playing the Yankees and not the Tigers. Let's follow my logic. The team is out of the race. Who's in town? The Tigers, I can see Pudge. The team is out of the race. Who's in town? The Yankees, I can see Jeter, A-Rod, etc. I can understand why Sox attendance would take such a nose dive. And the Sox outdrew each of the past 3 seasons, and we were further out earlier. So give Sox fans credit for also being baseball fans. We are not such a group of fair weather fans. Of course winning increases attendance, but so does good baseball and superstars. You may prefer to watch the Sox beat up on a s***ty team, but there are other people who enjoy good baseball. The battle is for the casual fan. The hardcore attend the games regardless of standings. The casual fan will come out to see great teams and superstar players. You can't compare the Tigers to the Yankees, anymore than you can compare the Devil Rays to the Twins. The Yankees will have big crowds here, as will the Red Sox. The Devil Rays, Blue Jays, and Orioles will not. And you are dead on right, the casual fan is the one we will be fighting for. But the casual fans aren't going to be going to see the Sox and Yankees, because those games sell out. Getting the casual fan to go see the Sox play the Devil Rays is the problem. And if the Rays stink AND the Sox stink no one is going to go. But if the Sox are playing the Devil Rays while battling Twins for first place, people are much more likely to go, because they will pay to see a winner. Like I said if you don't believe my arguement, go back and look at the Sox attendance trends. Take a look closely at the Sox record, and how many fans show up to games. There is a direct correlation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Then how does Baltimore draw all those fans? 2.5 million in 2003; 2.7 in 2002; and 2.5 year to date? Maybe Sox fans are not as loyal? Our stadium isn't as nice? The weather is better in Baltimore? I'm sure all of those factors enter into it. Also, Angelos invests a LOT of money into the team, that inspires fan loyalty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 And just to be clear, I believe it would be a disaster from a competitive side, but I believe JR would make more money. That is why I could see him exploring the idea. Plus he would have a built in excuse every season for not winning. No pressure, just cash the checks. Do you want this team to become the second coming of the Chicago Blackhawks though. I certainly don't. Chicago is a great sporting city, and it would be a shame to see the White Sox not being able to compete in the playoffs consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 move the twins to the east, give us the Bluejays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 By the way, if anyone read the article over on WSI...it has no reference about the White Sox. The poster is claming Gammons was on the radio out there and said JR contacted MLB to do this. Ya sure, and I'll believe it when me s*** turns into rainbow sherbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Why JR would place profits over competitiveness? That's what JR is all about...profits over competitiveness!!!! He doesn't care about winning...only making money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 By the way, if anyone read the article over on WSI...it has no reference about the White Sox. The poster is claming Gammons was on the radio out there and said JR contacted MLB to do this. Ya sure, and I'll believe it when me s*** turns into rainbow sherbert. nice super troopers reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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