Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 What do you think of maybe having Stewart become the long reliever. As we know he has been doing a very good job this spring while Glover has struggled. I say keep Stewart with the big team and maybe trade Glover for some catching help possibly, a team like the Marlins who have 3 Major league quality catchers. Those being Irod, Redman, and Castro. I think we could trade Paul and Glover for Castro. This would give us 3 lefties in our bullpen(Marte, Wunsch, and Stewart) and allow us to send Oliva down to AAA to get more seasoning. So what do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Why would the Marlins think that they need Glover? Chances are, they rate both of their catchers ahead of Paul. If some other team has an inflated value on one of our "marginal" players, sure, go for it. If I were the Marlins GM and this was presented to me, I think I would be asking for Stewart, not Glover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Why would the Marlins think that they need Glover? Chances are, they rate both of their catchers ahead of Paul. If some other team has an inflated value on one of our "marginal" players, sure, go for it. If I were the Marlins GM and this was presented to me, I think I would be asking for Stewart, not Glover. You are probaly right about them wanting Stewart over Glover but remember they have a lot of talent at the Catcher postion and like us have a guy who is out of options who they would probaly lose on waivers. I think they would be willing to take a guy like Glover just so they don't lose Castro for nothing.(which would happen if they tried to send him down to AAA). Thats why I think we could get him for Glover and Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Why would the Marlins think that they need Glover? Chances are, they rate both of their catchers ahead of Paul. If some other team has an inflated value on one of our "marginal" players, sure, go for it. If I were the Marlins GM and this was presented to me, I think I would be asking for Stewart, not Glover. You are probaly right about them wanting Stewart over Glover but remember they have a lot of talent at the Catcher postion and like us have a guy who is out of options who they would probaly lose on waivers. I think they would be willing to take a guy like Glover just so they don't lose Castro for nothing.(which would happen if they tried to send him down to AAA). Thats why I think we could get him for Glover and Paul. No way the do that trade... cause then they would lose paul on waivers... ITs pointless for them... they wouldnt ask for glover who has had a rather poor spring. They would want guys like ginter, Stewart, Sanders... Stewart is a great security blanket incase someone gets hurt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Why would the Marlins think that they need Glover? Chances are, they rate both of their catchers ahead of Paul. If some other team has an inflated value on one of our "marginal" players, sure, go for it. If I were the Marlins GM and this was presented to me, I think I would be asking for Stewart, not Glover. You are probaly right about them wanting Stewart over Glover but remember they have a lot of talent at the Catcher postion and like us have a guy who is out of options who they would probaly lose on waivers. I think they would be willing to take a guy like Glover just so they don't lose Castro for nothing.(which would happen if they tried to send him down to AAA). Thats why I think we could get him for Glover and Paul. No way the do that trade... cause then they would lose paul on waivers... ITs pointless for them... they wouldnt ask for glover who has had a rather poor spring. They would want guys like ginter, Stewart, Sanders... Stewart is a great security blanket incase someone gets hurt.... Like I siad I think you are right about what pitchers they would want. But look at this way if you were the Marlins and you had to send down a guy like castro because you needed that postion for another player,(And since he is out of options they would lose him) wouldn't you trade him for some one even if the person you are trading for the player has less talent. Or what I am saying is they may take Glover and Paul for Castro just so they woouldn't lose Castro for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Glover and someone else perhaps... not paul.. cause it puts them in the same predicament... send him down and lose him for nuthing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Also, Glover is a little to valuable to this team right now... Granted hes not done to well this ST. However hes a very good long man, and can perhaps turn into a pretty damn good setup guy. With White having troubles... if we trade away Glover we are forced to place ginter into the bullpen (granted hes earned it). But that costs us vaulable depth in the pitching staff. ITs one of our strong points right now. And considering how injuries to pitchers can come outta no where i'd rather take my chances with paul, alomar and olivio then weaken the pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Unless Olivo gets hot in the last week of ST, I think Paul will start the season on the team and MO goes to Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 How good is Stewart's stuff? Can he get 3 or more pitches over for strikes? Can he change speeds effectively and use movement? How's he mentally? Is he the second cominng of Buehrle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 What do you think of maybe having Stewart become the long reliever. Trades aside..... if the only way Stewart is going to make this team is to be the long reliever, then I'd rather have him start the season in the minor leagues where he can get more starts. Hopefully, with Buehrle, Colon, Garland, and Loaiza, the White Sox won't be needing the long reliever too many times this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 How good is Stewart's stuff? Can he get 3 or more pitches over for strikes? Can he change speeds effectively and use movement? How's he mentally? Is he the second cominng of Buehrle? From all i have read... Stewart throws 4 pitches for strikes. He moves the ball around well, and changes speeds... much like buehrle... Although calling him the second coming of buehlre is going a bit far... Here is an article over at chisports.com on stewart... gives JM's feelings about him... http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...sox%2Dheadlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 KW and JM cannot possibly justify keeping Rick White or even Gary Glover over Josh Stewart, unless they all reverse courses in the final week of ST. The comparison to Mark Buerhle is obvious. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't MB get his first few appearances with the Sox out of the pen? That would be the perfect scenario for Josh. Then neither one of them would have needed a stint at AAA. Josh's good year at AA last year and his strong showing in the Arizona Fall League are not coincidences. He gets people out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I don't like the idea of dealing Glover. Glover is a guy I really think will be successful in the majors for a long time. This guy has very good stuff and seems to know how to pitch. The other reason I wouldn't move him is we are depending on Flash (Very injury prone) and White has struggled. Plus, Glover has almost always struggled in spring, except for the year he earned the job. I'm not too worried about him or White and the spring training numbers. I watched White pitch and despite getting hit a bit, his stuff looked good and its tough when you don't have the curve. I like having Stewart as our depth if a starter goes down. If the Sox made that trade, then if Wright couldn't play or someone else went down, then we'd really be counting on youngsters in the rotation/pen. I'll take a strong rotation and strong pen and depth in that area and worry a bit about catcher knowing we got one guy with an absolute gun in AAA, Alomar whose solid when healthy, and two guys that are ok-semi bad in Paul/Burke - even though we don't know what he can do, he isn't anything defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 I don't like the idea of dealing Glover. Glover is a guy I really think will be successful in the majors for a long time. This guy has very good stuff and seems to know how to pitch. The other reason I wouldn't move him is we are depending on Flash (Very injury prone) and White has struggled. Plus, Glover has almost always struggled in spring, except for the year he earned the job. I'm not too worried about him or White and the spring training numbers. I watched White pitch and despite getting hit a bit, his stuff looked good and its tough when you don't have the curve. I like having Stewart as our depth if a starter goes down. If the Sox made that trade, then if Wright couldn't play or someone else went down, then we'd really be counting on youngsters in the rotation/pen. I'll take a strong rotation and strong pen and depth in that area and worry a bit about catcher knowing we got one guy with an absolute gun in AAA, Alomar whose solid when healthy, and two guys that are ok-semi bad in Paul/Burke - even though we don't know what he can do, he isn't anything defensively. You all make good points about Stewart, Glover, and the catcher postion. The only reason I brought up this trade was because I really would like to see Stewart in the majors. I really believe that he is the next Mark Buerhle and would be a great player out of the pen. And I think the Catcher postion is the weakest postion in our whole organazation. And I think we need to add a guy for some depth. But hey we may not even have to make a trade he might still be on waivers and we could pick him up that way. Castro that is. Bye the way does anyone know our Waiver postion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Hey Joel, can you fill me in on Castro? I'd like picking him up as a catcher if he's as good as you say he is. What his specialties? Good defensively, offensively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Hey Joel, can you fill me in on Castro? I'd like picking him up as a catcher if he's as good as you say he is. What his specialties? Good defensively, offensively? Actualy to tell you the truth I really have seen him play in only one game and that was in preseason this year so I don't know how good he really is. but the guys on TV said that he was supposed to be above average offensive player with a good arm on defense, who hasn't had a chance to prove him self in the majors because of Charles Johnson and Mark Redman last couple years and Redman and IRod this year. So like I said I don't know much but when I heard about him I thought he would be a good pickup especially since he is on a team with 3 catchers and he has no options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Dang, sounds pretty nice. Has anyone else seen this guy play? I'm going to dig up some stats on him tomorrow and read what baseball prospectus says of him. He sounds like a good plan and a guy like this could be had for not much, if he's really going to be waived anyway. Offer up someone that isn't going to be a major leaguer for the Sox, maybe even a Wade Parrish or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Dang, sounds pretty nice. Has anyone else seen this guy play? I'm going to dig up some stats on him tomorrow and read what baseball prospectus says of him. He sounds like a good plan and a guy like this could be had for not much, if he's really going to be waived anyway. Offer up someone that isn't going to be a major leaguer for the Sox, maybe even a Wade Parrish or something. Thats thing though I don't know if he will be waived or not. They could keep all 3 of them so they won't lose them and since they are team that probaly isn't going anywhere and IRod a Free Agent I wouldn't be suprised if they kept him on the roster. Thats why i think the only way you can get him is through trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Thats probably right. I don't know what the Marlins bench looks like, but I'm sure they could carry 3 catchers. Well, Pittsburgh was going to waive Marte and we picked him up. I'm not saying we need to trade someone like Guerrier, but I do think the Sox could definately use a backup and this guy doesn't only sound like a backup, but he sounds like a potential starter. For catchers, there are so many journeyman types that have become very solid: Molina, Damian Miller, Robert Machado (Former Sox), even someone like Paul LoDuca. As long as they can call the game, play good defense, and hit decent they will get a shot. Its why I am happy with Olivo, even if he doesn't turn into a hitting machine, but I'd love to get this guy as well. Having a couple solid catchers is a great thing to have, especially if they have the ability to get better, but you always know they will be able to play defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Olivo is a 5-tool** catcher as fa as I am concerned. Fast-learner as second half of last season showed where he went from .250 to .312 at one point. Barring an injury, he will be the best all around catcher in the came in a a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Olivo is a 5-tool catcher as fa as I am concerned. Fast-learner as second half of last season showed where he went from .250 to .312 at one point. Barring an injury, he will be the best all around catcher in the came in a a few years. Ah, thats being extremely hopeful for a guy that spent 2 years at AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 ** -he has a frame and batspeed to hit 15 homers some day -can hit .280 -can definately take a walk -can steal 20+ bases if Manuel allows his catcher to run that often -above-average defensively (game-calling is a problem for now) -has the best arm in the game now that Pudge is declining... If not an outright five-tool, then certainly 4.5 one Along with Buerhle, Konerko, Garland, Rauch, Jimenez, Honel, Borchard, Lee and Crede, this guy is the future of the franchise IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 ** -he has a frame and batspeed to hit 15 homers some day -can hit .280 -can definately take a walk -can steal 20+ bases if Manuel allows his catcher to run that often -above-average defensively (game-calling is a problem for now) -has the best arm in the game now that Pudge is declining... If not an outright five-tool, then certainly 4.5 one Along with Buerhle, Konerko, Garland, Rauch, Jimenez, Honel, Borchard, Lee and Crede, this guy is the future of the franchise IMO. You may be right that Olivo is our future catcher but IMO we still need another payer to back him up at the catcher postion. And right now there is no one in our organazation that can do it. Thats why I would think it would be a smart move to pick up Castro(or another young catcher from another team) to be our backup. Because I can already tell that Paul won't be that guy and Sandy is to old to think about the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 We're not going to get one of Florida's 3 catchers....they're going to keep all 3....and almost expect Castro to become a very good catcher in the future. From Ken Rosenthal's Inside Dish: Marlins manager Jeff Torborg is trying to figure out when he will rest C Ivan Rodriguez. Both Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro will make the team as backup catchers, and Torborg said Castro's soft hands, strong arm and powerful bat make him a "possible All-Star in waiting." If we want to get one of Florida's catchers....we're going to have to give them a helluva lot more than just Glover/Stewart and Paul....we'd probably have to atleast include a fringe prospect as well....and for Castro, probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 We're not going to get one of Florida's 3 catchers....they're going to keep all 3....and almost expect Castro to become a very good catcher in the future. From Ken Rosenthal's Inside Dish: Marlins manager Jeff Torborg is trying to figure out when he will rest C Ivan Rodriguez. Both Mike Redmond and Ramon Castro will make the team as backup catchers, and Torborg said Castro's soft hands, strong arm and powerful bat make him a "possible All-Star in waiting." If we want to get one of Florida's catchers....we're going to have to give them a helluva lot more than just Glover/Stewart and Paul....we'd probably have to atleast include a fringe prospect as well....and for Castro, probably more. Thanks for clearing that up. I was hoping this would not have happened but it did so I guess we should move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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