Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Its to their advantage to oppose the war when they are making big money illegally and violating U.N. sanctions by selling Iraq weapons since almost right after the guns fell silent in Gulf War 1. This is completely seperate from what you're talking about and is the heart of my issue. The people doing the drilling had nothing to do with the scam at all. It was not illegal to drill for oil there. The big issue is that Saddam was taking the proceeds from his oil sales that were supposed to be used for buying food and medicine for his people and buying military hardware from France and Russia and building his own personal fortune and lavish lifestyle. The U.N. was either totally asleep at the switch or complicit. This is the issue this post is about. Kofi Annan has some cojones trying to lecture George Bush about waging an illegal war when he was violating his own sanctions for years by engaging in a multi billion dollar kickback scheme which deprived innocent Iraqi's of food and medicine. He should be removed from his job and imprisoned for his complicity in this matter. Couldn't a case also be made that the French and Russians were in a better position to knkow what technology and weapons systems Sadaam had? Perhaps that is why they couldn't support a war based in part on their potential threat to the US? This hasn't been raised before. If Ibeek (made up country) was targeting Russia, and Russia wanted us to commit billions of dollars and thousands of troops, would we be quick to come to their aid? Even before our Iraq war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 Couldn't a case also be made that the French and Russians were in a better position to knkow what technology and weapons systems Sadaam had? Perhaps that is why they couldn't support a war based in part on their potential threat to the US? That's not the point. They were profiting illegally from billions in oil for food kickbacks and illegally selling weapons to Iraq. They didnt want us to go in because they knew they were going to get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. This whole thing with France Russia and the U.N. stinks to high heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 That's not the point. They were profiting illegally from billions in oil for food kickbacks and illegally selling weapons to Iraq. They didnt want us to go in because they knew they were going to get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. This whole thing with France Russia and the U.N. stinks to high heaven. I agree, it does. I was just adding that they also were in a better position to know Iraq's potential for harm. Do you think we would have come to Russia's aid if a country was targeting them? What would the reponse have been if American's were fighting to protect the Russian's interests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 I agree, it does. I was just adding that they also were in a better position to know Iraq's potential for harm. Do you think we would have come to Russia's aid if a country was targeting them? What would the reponse have been if American's were fighting to protect the Russian's interests? Why would we fight to protect Russia's interests? They can handle themselves. Or was this a question of "Would we fight to protect ( insert country here) interests?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Why would we fight to protect Russia's interests? They can handle themselves. Or was this a question of "Would we fight to protect ( insert country here) interests?" And why would Russia or anyone else fight to protect ours? That was the point I was getting at. If France, Russia, et. al. decided that this was an American issue only, why commit money and Troops to the battle? Add that to their illegal dealings, and you have both a popular reason and a sinister reason to stay out of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 And why would Russia or anyone else fight to protect ours? That was the point I was getting at. If France, Russia, et. al. decided that this was an American issue only, why commit money and Troops to the battle? Add that to their illegal dealings, and you have both a popular reason and a sinister reason to stay out of the war. If they didnt want to get involved and they were clean I can deal with that. God knows I dont want to go to some African s***hole and play policeman between two warring tribes *cough* Sudan *cough*, or stop a bunch of Bosnian morons from ethnically cleansing each other. The only time I want to go somewhere and get involved is when our national interests are at stake. People tell me "But that war was only about oil" and I say "So?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 If they didnt want to get involved and they were clean I can deal with that. God knows I dont want to go to some African s***hole and play policeman between two warring tribes *cough* Sudan *cough*, or stop a bunch of Bosnian morons from ethnically cleansing each other. The only time I want to go somewhere and get involved is when our national interests are at stake. People tell me "But that war was only about oil" and I say "So?". There isn't a country in the world that the US is 100% without economic interest in one way or another and I imagine Russia is similar. As far as Iraq, I am certain the French and others viewed it the same way we would if it was Russia, woth suspicion and trying to stay the hell out of the way. You think to warring African tribes would be bad, how would you like to get between the US and anyone? We have 50 ways to destroy a country. My personal favorite is McDonalds and commerce. They start getting fat and lazy just like us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 So Nuke, you don't have a problem with the current Vice President skirting the spirit of the law rather then the letter of it and making money by giving aid and comfort to our enemies? Drilling for oil under Hussein's regime still made money for Saddam Hussein. Or did he just place the Halliburton money in his "Not From Evil" fund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Halliburton is a worldwide player in the energy business. As such they are doing business with some not so ethical individuals in some not so ethical countries, and dealing with ethical norms that seem wrong by US standards. I am not so quick to condem the organization. Disclosure: They formerly were a very nice customer/client of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 The other problem with Halliburton is that there are under 5 companies in the world that have the all encompasing abilities to do what they do in the oil industry. If you go and fire them, who else is there to do these jobs? As I recall the other companies, one is French, one is German, and one is Russian, although I could be remembering wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 The other problem with Halliburton is that there are under 5 companies in the world that have the all encompasing abilities to do what they do in the oil industry. If you go and fire them, who else is there to do these jobs? As I recall the other companies, one is French, one is German, and one is Russian, although I could be remembering wrong. That is only partially true. They have the widest range of services available for rebuilding a country and supporting the military. However a consortium could have been put together with 3 or 4 companies and completed the task. For whatever reason we made speed a key issue and wrote a bid that only Halliburton could win. Remember the lottery terminal fiasco in Illinoi 15 years ago or so? Bally Gaming (IL) Gen Data, and one other had the capability and expertise in the area. Then Gov. Thompson had the specs written so that only Bally would be able to offer a competitive bid. The state was sued and I believe it was Data General who won. Bally used it as an excuse to move to Nevada where people liked them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Names are starting to be named in this scandel... Interesting stuff here. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20...91280_1,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Names are starting to be named in this scandel... Interesting stuff here. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20...91280_1,00.html An opportunity to clean up the UN. IMHO the international oil business is the dirtiest from an ethics point of view as any. Everyone has their price and I think it gets reached quickly in the oil business. I cannot wait until solar, wind, wave, and other forms of power production really cut into the oil consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Yeah, me too, like that big windfarm they wanted to put up off the coast of Mass., except the Kennedy's and other environmental-loving type people in the area decided that it 'was ugly, and ruined their view of the coastline', so it didn't get built. Same problem will happen elsewhere, doesn't matter if it is a refinery, wind farm or solar facility, too many people suffer from NIMBY. I really do want to see some other forms of energy around, because I would like to drive my car without having to pay thru the nose to do so. V-8's suck up lots of gas, especially with my lead foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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