DBAHO Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Joe Crede's lack of production at third base was considered a major disappointment, but Williams appears ready to give Crede at least another season to prove himself. He refused to include Crede in the Garcia trade and acknowledged that seeing Los Angeles Dodgers third baseman Adrian Beltre emerge as an MVP candidate after struggling early in his career has convinced him to remain patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I have been a defender of JC, but 2005 is his last real chance to be the longterm answer at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I have been a defender of JC, but 2005 is his last real chance to be the longterm answer at 3rd. That is probably the truest statement on these boards. I'm willing to give him one more year, we have bigger needs to address and limited resources, but he better work his ass off this off season and make a statement early or the dump Crede bandwagon will pull out of the gate early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 He needs to do what Konerko did this season. Silence the doubters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 KW putting Joe Crede and Adrian Beltre in the same sentence is proof 1,375,869 that KW has got to go. Joe Crede putting up MVP caliber numbers..... hell, decent numbers offesively..... ain't gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 We will keep Crede and Borchard until they are arbitration eligible at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Crede deserves another shot IMO. He's driven in some clutch runs and lets be realistic here he is our #7 hitter at most. I think he can bat at least .250 plus and I think thats enough to put us over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Crede needs to do some serious work on cutting his swing down. If he can do that he will be damn good. You can see the talent is there but doesn't seem able to put it to work just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 KW putting Joe Crede and Adrian Beltre in the same sentence is proof 1,375,869 that KW has got to go. Joe Crede putting up MVP caliber numbers..... hell, decent numbers offesively..... ain't gonna happen. Adrian Beltre was drafted at age 15. He had much more potential than Crede. Him mentioning them together is pretty silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Not to mention, Beltre had two very good years before his 3 Crede-esque years. At least they knew he could do that over a full season (well, noone knew he could do THIS exactly!). I enjoy watching Crede in the field, but I'd still listen to any offers. After his late-season push, his overall numbers are still awful (eg, <.300 obp but the sox could wait and see what fa are commanding.> Btw, does anyone know what the Red Sox plan on doing w/ their infield next year? They have both Mueller and Youkilis at 3b, and I can't imagine they'd give either one up, given the price. But how will they use them to give each one playing time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah I guess I don't mind Crede coming back next year. But like everyone has said, it better be his last shot to improve and if he doesn't, bye bye Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 KW putting Joe Crede and Adrian Beltre in the same sentence is proof 1,375,869 that KW has got to go. Joe Crede putting up MVP caliber numbers..... hell, decent numbers offesively..... ain't gonna happen. Why Killa? Until this year, Beltre wasn't much better than Crede. Crede may never hit .330, but if he puts it all together, I can definitely see him hit .300/35/110. Keep in mind, until this year, Dodgers fans were saying the same things about Beltre that Sox fans are saying about Crede now. Perhaps Beltre's ceiling is higher, but I would not be shocked at all if in two years, Crede has better numbers than Beltre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Good. I am glad Crede will be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 This should be no surprise at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah it doesn't really surprise me either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah...why spend money and get a good 3B, when you can have a bad, cheap one? :fyou Reinsdorf! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah...why spend money and get a good 3B, when you can have a bad, cheap one? :fyou Reinsdorf! whatever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 KW putting Joe Crede and Adrian Beltre in the same sentence is proof 1,375,869 that KW has got to go. Joe Crede putting up MVP caliber numbers..... hell, decent numbers offesively..... ain't gonna happen. Have you seen Beltre's stats before this season? They are almost identical to Crede's stats the past couple of years. I don't think that KW is suggesting that Crede is going to come back next year and put up the kind of numbers that Beltre has this year(only a handful of players have that capability). I think he is simple suggesting that Crede is still young, and he has the talent to have a breakout year(say .280/25/90) next year despite this years troubles. In that case the comparison is very relivant. With that said, I am not a Crede fan, and I would like to see him traded. I think Koskie would be a perfect fit for this team. He isn't flashy, but is a solid/complete player. Here is a comparison of Beltre's 2 seasons before his breakout year(02-03) versus Crede's last 2 seasons(03-04). Beltre (02-03 average) .249/22/77 37 BB 99 SO .297 OBP .425 SLG .722 OPS Crede (03-04 average) .250/20/72 33 BB 78 SO .303 OBP .424 SLG .727 OPS There stats are almost identical, so I ask how ridiculious is the comparison? How many people could honestly say that they could have even come close to predicting the type of year that Beltre has had based on the above stats? The Sox have also been burned in the past by giving up on young players too earlier, and I am sure that if KW trades Crede(like most Sox fans want) and Crede turns into a good player/star, those same fans that wanted Crede out will blast KW for giving up on Crede. KW is in a no win situation unless he keeps Crede and he realizes his potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I have no problem with that. Some guys take longer to break out than others. Although it sucks that we seem to always have the guys that take longer. It's not like we have a whole lot of options anyway. We have a lot more important holes to fill other than 3rd base. And it's not like Fields is gonna be ready next year, atleast I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I don't think that KW is suggesting that Crede is going to come back next year and put up the kind of numbers that Beltre has this year(only a handful of players have that capability). I think he is simple suggesting that Crede is still young, and he has the talent to have a breakout year(say .280/25/90) next year despite this years troubles. In that case the comparison is very relivant. My assessment of Crede is based on two things..... 1.) potential, and 2.) what I know about this Organization in regards to what the White Sox Organization sells to the fans as minor leaguers w/potential recently. Crede, Borchard, Garland, etc. were sold to Sox fans as minor leaguers w/huge potential. Crede was supposed to be the next Robin Ventura. Jon Garland was supposed to be the White Sox's next perennial Cy Young candidate. Joe Borchard was compared to, by some in certain circles, as the next Mickey Mantle. Sox fans have been sold the minor league "potential" line of BS because JR is too goddamn cheap to even attempt to acquire proven ML talent unless it involves a trade and/or the trade partner picking up a sizable portion of the tradee's salary in the recent past. After taking in "potential" I then move to number 2..... what I know of this Organization. I know for instance that our advance scouting sucks monkey nuts. I also know that, when push comes to shove, JR will put $$$ before a WS Championship in every circumstance. I then realize that a team like Seattle..... who until this season was a playoff contender for years..... passed on scraps like Borchard and Crede OR KW refused to part with the aforementioned because he sees "potential". The same KW that traded for Todd Ritchie and the same KW that traded Foulke for Koch etc (no need to rehash KW's shortcomings as GM). Then take Seattle's recent success and compare it to the Sox and there's no contest. I then take 1+2 and come to a conclusion that has, up to this point, been foolproof. Crede..... Robin Ventura potential+2 years in the ML's with a <.250 avg and a penchant for always having to work from down in the count="no" significant changes joe crede> Judy..... Sold to Sox fans as the second coming+almost 4 complete years of complete mediocrity= a .500 lifetime pitcher that is no better than a 4 or 5 on most ML teams. Borchard..... the juries still out but damn..... I bet my formula ain't far off come 2006-2007 if he's even still with the team by that time. This Organization needs an enema from top to bottom before things change for the better on the Southside of Chicago. My formula is far from scientific but you can book no significant changes in Joe Crede come 2005. But maybe he'll catch on fire in the second half :rolly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 ... what I know of this Organization. I know for instance that our advance scouting sucks monkey nuts. I also know that, when push comes to shove, JR will put $$$ before a WS Championship in every circumstance. OK ... tell us more on this. Curious about specifics, especially about the advance scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 OK ... tell us more on this. Curious about specifics, especially about the advance scouting. The advance scouting aspect comes from the White Sox recent inability to hit AA or AAA pitchers out of the IF until the 6th or 7th inning. A line-up of Frank Thomas, Maggs (when both were healthy), and Konerko et al are usually consistently aced by pitchers that have been shelled if they've pitched in the big leagues before facing the White Sox. If the White Sox are their first ML team faced, most of the time, they look unhittable and destined for ML success until they face a powerhouse like Toronto, Baltimore, KC, or Tampa Bay. Why did this happen in 2002 and 2003? Some have suggested and I agree that there is a flaw somewhere within the scouting system. How else are you able to explain Detroit in 2003 throwing scrub after scrub at the White Sox and beating the White Sox 1-0 while the Sox commonly have no problem creating scoring chances against the likes of Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, Mark Prior, etc. Of course, scouting plays a huge part in which prospects the White Sox draft. Over the past 2 seasons, the Sox haven't had a 5th starter called up from the minor leagues that has been able to do diddly-squat on a consistent basis against ML teams but are as close to lights-out in whichever minor league class they were recently pitching in. Of course, it probably doesn't help matters that KW brings a guy up for one start then sends him back and, 5 days later, is calling up another prospect to try his hand at the 5th starter's role. Even the prospects KW has traded away for Everett and Alomar Jr. TWICE haven't done much since being called up by their new teams. White Sox Scouting..... the best scouting JR's $$$ can buy :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 the White Sox Organization sells to the fans as minor leaguers w/potential recently. Crede, Borchard, Garland, etc. were sold to Sox fans as minor leaguers w/huge potential. Crede was the MVP of two different leagues. That is real potential, and has NOTHING to do with the White Sox selling him as anything. Borchard hit .295 with 27 HR and 98, while drawing 67 BB in his first full professional season at AA. I'm sorry he hasn't panned out as you hoped, but those numbers sell themselves. HE created the expectations, not a great sales job by the Sox. Garland, while it is disappointing that he hasn't seemed to improve a lot, is still just 24. In comparison, Curt Schilling was still splitting time between AAA and the Majors (for the 4th straight year) at 24. At 27, Schilling was 2-8 with a 4.48 ERA and peripherals no better or worse than Garland's. Garland was a first round draft pick who has always received rave reviews from scouts throughout baseball, not just the Sox. Hate the organization all you want, but try and look at things objectively once in a while. Not all prospects pan out. EVERY team has "can't miss" prospects that do miss. The Sox are no different. But the Sox aren't trying to brainwash you just to save a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah every team does have can't miss prospects and every team has pleasent surprises. I'd say Mark B is a pleasant surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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