Crede coming back

[winninguglyin83]

We need to stick with Crede.

 

He's a hard worker.

 

He still has potential.

 

He's home grown.

 

And we don't have a viable alternative.

[Rex Hudler]

Why not look at obp? It is easily one of the most important offensive stats. Randa's numbers are so low because of the fact the royal's offense was bases around their minor leaguers this year. I am not really a fan of picking randa but he would be much better in the sox lineup than crede is. As you can tell by reading this thread i really want koskie.

OBP is supposed to be a measure of run production. The better the team OBP the more runs scored over the long haul. I am not discounting OBP at all. I am merely saying that it is only ONE stat. I could care less if someone has an OBP of 50 points less than another if there is no measurable decrease in offensive production.

 

FWIW, Koskie is only marginally better than Crede, especially if you look at what he did this year. Would you really pay $2-3 million a year more for an extra 5-10 RBI, 5-10 runs scored, 20 points in batting average, 30 points on OBP? I'd keep what I got and spend that money elsewhere, personally.

 

Take your blinders off. Crede, while coming off a disappointing year, is not as bad as you think.

[greg775]

--If you asked me, I wouldn't say his swing is that slow. He gets around on some very quick fastballs.

 

I agree with Jim.

Hey Jim, do you think Crede ever will hit to all fields?

Is that his main problem, not taking the pitch to rf?

That homer he hit to right recently on TV shows he has some

pop if he'd go with the pitch.

[qwerty]

OBP is supposed to be a measure of run production.  The better the team OBP the more runs scored over the long haul.  I am not discounting OBP at all.  I am merely saying that it is only ONE stat.  I could care less if someone has an OBP of 50 points less than another if there is no measurable decrease in offensive production.

 

FWIW, Koskie is only marginally better than Crede, especially if you look at what he did this year.  Would you really pay $2-3 million a year more for an extra 5-10 RBI, 5-10 runs scored, 20 points in batting average, 30 points on OBP? I'd keep what I got and spend that money elsewhere, personally.

 

Take your blinders off.  Crede, while coming off a disappointing year, is not as bad as you think.

Koskie was playing injured for a while and was also on the dl for while. While koskie's obp is .39 better than crede's this year in his career verse crede's the difference is .69 point. Which is alot, even though koskie's offensive production may not be much better he generally gives his team alot more oppurtunies to score a run than crede does. You wouldn't call last years performance a disappointment? He hit .261 with 19 home runs and only a .308 obp. 3rd base is suppose to be a power position and the amount of homeruns he is hitting is not exactly what you would like from your typical third baseman. Even though koskie is not really big homerun hitter he sure knows how to get on base.

[Rex Hudler]

I think Crede will improve. I don't think he will ever be a major star, but I think he will give you solid production from the hot corner for many years. He will make many millions and live very comfortably.

[qwerty]

I think Crede will improve.  I don't think he will ever be a major star, but I think he will give you solid production from the hot corner for many years.  He will make many millions and live very comfortably.

I guess i can agree with that, but i think we all need to realize he will not become a superstar. We just need to give up on super star expectations i feel.

[GoodAsGould]

if we get 75 RBI's from crede and anything from 20-25 HR's i feel like he has done his job and ill be satisfied with him

[DBAHO]

He's a hard worker.

I don't know if Greg Walker would agree with that, hopefully Crede can take on board the message to shorten his swing. Aaron Rowand is a perfect example.

[Rex Hudler]

Gregg Ritchie, the hitting coach for both Rowand and Crede in 2000, felt back then that Rowand had more power potential. I have said for a couple of years that I felt Rowand could hit for power. Of course, no one believed me until a couple of months ago. LOL

 

That's not a knock on Crede as much as it is a positive for Rowand. But I don't think anyone ever really thought Crede had 40 HR potential. 25-30 is realistic, however.

[YASNY]

I guess i can agree with that, but i think we all need to realize he will not become a superstar. We just need to give up on super star expectations i feel.

If you can agree with that, why are you so anxious to give up on Crede? Do you know how hard it is to find a 3B that can lock down the position for several years, play defense well and still be productive at the plate?

 

I checked your profile and I see you are 18. That explains a lot me when I read your posts. I'm not saying this is a negative, because you obviously know quite a bit about baseball. However, I also know (I was 18 once, too) that most younger people, especially in this day and age, are more used to instant gratification rather than patience and persistant effort and achievement. You also have that very 18-year-old-like attitude that you know this or that and that is the definitive answer. You'll discover that somethings take time to evolve, and then only if someone has some stick-to-it-ivness. You'll also learn that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. Don't take this as an insult in any way, because it's not meant that way. It's just someone who has some real life experience talking to you. Basically, I'm hoping you step back, open your mind and learn to listen to some of the older, more experienced people in your life. I guarantee you that you won't regret it. These baseball discussions can be fun and interesting, but qwerty, you can learn a little as opposed to just trying to convince everyone you are right.

 

Again, please take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

[whitesox61382]

OBP is supposed to be a measure of run production.  The better the team OBP the more runs scored over the long haul.  I am not discounting OBP at all.  I am merely saying that it is only ONE stat.  I could care less if someone has an OBP of 50 points less than another if there is no measurable decrease in offensive production.

 

FWIW, Koskie is only marginally better than Crede, especially if you look at what he did this year.  Would you really pay $2-3 million a year more for an extra 5-10 RBI, 5-10 runs scored, 20 points in batting average, 30 points on OBP? I'd keep what I got and spend that money elsewhere, personally.

 

Take your blinders off.  Crede, while coming off a disappointing year, is not as bad as you think.

I would have to disagree with your belief that Koskie is only marginally better than Crede. Lets compare them based on the typical 5 tools.

 

Batting Average

Koskie has a clear advantage over Crede at this point. While Koskie had a subpar year from a BA standpoint(his worst) he was still better than Crede, and has a very good career BA of .280. Crede has a career BA of .256 by comparison, and Crede has never been projected to be a high BA guy in the majors.

 

Power

They are about even from a power standpoint. Koskie has averaged 32 2B, 20 HR, and .469 SLG the past 4 years. Crede by comparison has averaged 28 2B, 20 HR, and .426 SLG the past 2 years(Crede's SLG is lower because of a lower BA).

 

Plate Disipline

Personally, I think SO are an overrated stat, with the exception of a few situations. With that said, Koskie has an advantage in this catagory. He will SO 100+ times, but he does average about 70 BB and results in a career OBP of .373(an area that the Sox desperately need to improve). Crede SO a little less, but refuses to take walks. His career OBP by comparison is .304(or .069 lower than Koskie).

 

Speed

Once again, Koskie has an advantage in this catagory. Koskie is actually one of the faster 3B in the league. He was 1 SB short of his 4th straight double digit SB season. Crede is one of the slower 3B in the league and is often a clog on the basepads. Crede also hits into more DP's than Koskie.

 

Defense

This catagory is about even, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Both are very solid defensively.

 

Koskie has an advantage in 3 catagories(in areas that the Sox need to desperately improve) and is about equal in 2 catagories. I would say that is better than marginally better. Taking it one step further, if you look at their OPS, they aren't even close. 2004(Koskie .842 versus Crede .717) and career(Koskie .834 versus Crede .736). Koskie's career OPS is almost .100 points higher which is a significant difference. Finally, Koskie is a lefty and would help add balance to the lineup. I would say that Koskie is more than marginally better and IS worth 2-3M more than what Crede will get. Koskie will probably sign for a short-term deal 2-3 years, which should be enough time for Fields to develop or find a better long-term option.

[Rex Hudler]

If you can agree with that, why are you so anxious to give up on Crede?  Do you know how hard it is to find a 3B that can lock down the position for several years, play defense well and still be productive at the plate? 

 

I checked your profile and I see you are 18.  That explains a lot me when I read your posts. I'm not saying this is a negative, because you obviously know quite a bit about baseball.  However, I also know (I was 18 once, too) that most younger people, especially in this day and age, are more used to instant gratification rather than patience and persistant effort and achievement. You also have that very 18-year-old-like attitude that you know this or that and that is the definitive answer.  You'll discover that somethings take time to evolve, and then only if someone has some stick-to-it-ivness.  You'll also learn that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.  Don't take this as an insult in any way, because it's not meant that way.  It's just someone who has some real life experience talking to you.  Basically, I'm hoping you step back, open your mind and learn to listen to some of the older, more experienced people in your life.  I guarantee you that you won't regret it.  These baseball discussions can be fun and interesting, but qwerty, you can learn a little as opposed to just trying to convince everyone you are right.

 

Again, please take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

Geez, Yas, I thought I was reading my own words there for a minute. I don't know how many times I have said those very same things. Sometimes I have to say them to myself too. LOL

 

I tell young people that work for me all the time..... just because someone is old, doesn't mean they are smarter than you. But it can't hurt to listen to someone with life experiences. I thought I knew everything at 16. I didn't know s***. I thought I knew a lot at 24. I knew more than s***, but a lot less than I knew when I turned 30. At 35 I looked back and thought I was just beginning to get smart at 30. When I turn 40, I am sure I will realize there is still a ton I don't know today.

 

It is a never-ending learning process and those that learn that fact early, are ahead of the game.

[YASNY]

When I turn 40, I am sure I will realize there is still a ton I don't know today.

 

 

Rex, you've already realized it. You don't begin to get smart until you realize how much you don't know. Thanks for that post.

[qwerty]

If you can agree with that, why are you so anxious to give up on Crede?  Do you know how hard it is to find a 3B that can lock down the position for several years, play defense well and still be productive at the plate? 

 

I checked your profile and I see you are 18.  That explains a lot me when I read your posts. I'm not saying this is a negative, because you obviously know quite a bit about baseball.  However, I also know (I was 18 once, too) that most younger people, especially in this day and age, are more used to instant gratification rather than patience and persistant effort and achievement. You also have that very 18-year-old-like attitude that you know this or that and that is the definitive answer.  You'll discover that somethings take time to evolve, and then only if someone has some stick-to-it-ivness.  You'll also learn that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.  Don't take this as an insult in any way, because it's not meant that way.  It's just someone who has some real life experience talking to you.  Basically, I'm hoping you step back, open your mind and learn to listen to some of the older, more experienced people in your life.  I guarantee you that you won't regret it.  These baseball discussions can be fun and interesting, but qwerty, you can learn a little as opposed to just trying to convince everyone you are right.

 

Again, please take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

I take no offense to anything you said at all. It is just my opinion that if not this year nexy year we do need to get rid of crede. If he is still not producing any better than he is now. I also firmly believe that if koskie was on the sox he would produce 5 times better than crede does now. I agree with everyone of whitesox61382 posts about koskie verse crede. Thanx for the advice yasny i will try but like you said when you are 16,17,18 you feel like you know everything when that is no the case at all. It is not even that i try to persuade people i just try to get my point across right or wrong.

 

Once more thanx for the advice yasny.

[YASNY]

I take no offense to anything you said at all. It is just my opinion that if not this year nexy year we do need to get rid of crede. If he is still not producing any better than he is now. I also firmly believe that if koskie was on the sox he would produce 5 times better than crede does now. I agree with everyone of whitesox61382 posts about koskie verse crede. Thanx for the advice yasny i will try but like you said when you are 16,17,18 you feel like you know everything when that is no the case at all. It is not even that i try to persuade people i just try to get my point across right or wrong.

 

Once more thanx for the advice yasny.

[Guest JimH]

The particular segment was part of Dave Wills post game show. And the date of the interview was likely Thur, instead of Friday as I've previously described. Levine quickly listed names within the minor league organization (all of which are unfamiliar to me) who were switching titles.  Levine never mentioned the changes were made due to failures, but its simple to read between the lines.

 

One guy in particular was a friend of Willsy, whom declared himself a "homer" in predicting this guy would fit in the White Sox organization.  Levine also referenced JR's old buddy Jerry Krause, predicting he would soon find a job with the Sox.

 

Have you by any chance ever called into the show, Jim?  Friday someone phoned in who discussed limiting season tickets, and despising arrogance of Cub fans. I have never heard you speak, and there's a high probability another season ticket holder named Jim exists in Chicago, but the person wasn't your average caller.  Seemed to possess intelligence.

I wished I'd heard that segment about the minor league reshuffling. Regardless, I'm encouraged they're taking action. I guess we'll find out when they announce it. As for Jerry Krause, he's a good baseball man but one thing I'd really be wary of is, would he be a pipeline to Reinsdorf, i.e. "spy" or tattletale? Those sorts of things really lead to poor morale in any organization. But I guess that's a very small thing to worry about in light of all the player personnel decisions.

 

Actually, no, that was not me on the postgame show. I have never called in to a White Sox postgame show. The last time I called in to a postgame show was about 25 years ago ... a Blackhawks postgame show when Lou Angotti was the radio color commentator.

[babybearhater]

Cubs are quite good at hyping their young talent. That must be the only explanation for trading Bobby Hillbilly and Hernandez to the Pittsburgh Pirates for  Aramis Ramirez.  Or how about the infamous five team trade involving Francis Beltran/Alex Gonzalez to the Expos for Garciappara?  Other teams are quite willing to accept crap from the goof, Hendry. His rape of less fortunate organizations should be a model for KW.  No longer should GM's eyes light up when their receptionists are recieving a call from KW.

 

I know I'm shifting the focus of the discussion here, but I don't accept failure of this team because others have theirs as well.  We (as fans) should expect KW to shadow the success of fortunate organizations instead of accepting failure and noting the trouble's of other teams.

Sorry, I know im going to attack the part of your quote which probably has the least to do with this thread. But in my mind, the cubs got ripped off in that trade. The cubs were a better team without Nomar in the line up. The were 500 with him in the lineup and I believe were 7 games over with him not in it. Someone can find some stats on that one. Also, the main part of their demise was the terrible offense, but also the weak bullpen, which they weakened even more by trading a young pitcher, with some serious stuff. So they basically rented a player for a few months, who actually hurt their chances of winning. And I know this is some serious speculation, but. Boston before Nomar---a disaster, after Nomar--almost taking the division. Cubs before Nomar, first place hopes, easy wild card birth. After Nomar, sitting at home watchin the playoffs.

 

just something to think about