jackie hayes Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 I hate the emphasis on "500 home runs". Aren't we all too smart to think that it's only special if it's divisible by 100? Frank will get in, his DHing and tail-off in these last few years (really not that big a slide) will be outweighed by the time when he was perhaps the best position player in the game. Being that dominant gets you in. (On the other hand, ask Bert Blylevyn if consistency makes you a HOFer.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Frank will be in when its all said and done. Hell, he's got a hall of fame nickname (The Big Hurt) C'mon now, he'll be in for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Frank will be in the HOF. The only question is will he be a first ballot or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Frank Thomas was one of the, if not the most dominant hitters in the league for 6 years(from 91-97), and he fit that same category again in 2000. That alone will get him in the hall of fame, let alone his 2, should be 3 MVP awards, his OPS near 1.000(3rd best among active players, behind only Bonds and Helton), his .300+ career average, the amount of runs he created...what he's done is insane. To think he will not make it is absurd, even if he was a DH for most of his career. The real question is whether he is a first ballot HoFer or not...plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Stats wise there is no reason why Frank shouldn't get in. The only thing that worries me is that doesn't the press have to like vote him in. He hasn't really endeared himself to them. edit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Stats wise there is no reason why Frank shouldn't get in. The only thing that worries me is that doesn't the press have to like vote him in. He hasn't really endeared myself to them. See also Eddie Murray. He was an easy first ballot guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 See also Eddie Murray. He was an easy first ballot guy. SEE: 2 time AL MVP -nuff said, lock the thread OUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thoma snor Bagwell should be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Thoma snor Bagwell should be in. That is one hell of an argument that you have there, Butters! :sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 That is one hell of an argument that you have there, Butters! :sleep My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Thoma snor Bagwell should be in. That could possibly be the most asanine post I've ever seen. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Yeah, Frank should get in even if he doesn't reach the 500 home run mark, but if he does, then he's a lock for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I visited Cooperstown last month. The gallery where they keep the plaques is like a cathedral with a high vaulted ceiling. There had to be a hundred visitors but everybody just whispered like in Church. There are 258 plaques in the Hall, from Aaron to Yount. Each player plaque has his image, the teams and years he played, and a paragraph telling his records and accomplishments. So now when I think about if a player should go to the Hall I think about what they will write on his plaque and if I have trouble coming up with stuff, I don't think he should go. So I challenge you to write Frank Thomas' Hall of Fame plaque, convince me. Here's two examples of recent players: Eddie Murray A POWERFUL AND PRODUCTIVE SWITCH-HITTER WHOSE CONSISTENCY OVER 21 SEASONS LED TO 3,255 HITS, 560 DOUBLES, 504 HOME RUNS, 5,397 TOTAL BASES, AND 1,917 RBI. THIRD PLAYER EVER TO CONNECT FOR MORE THAN 500 HOME RUNS AND 3,000 HITS. PLAYED IN THREE WORLD SERIES, WINNING WITH THE ORIOLES IN 1983. AN EIGHT-TIME ALL-STAR AND THE 1977 A.L. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR. A SKILLED FIELDER, HE EARNED THREE GOLD GLOVE AWARDS, SETTING MAJOR LEAGUE RECORDS FOR GAMES PLAYED AND ASSISTS BY A FIRST BASEMAN Harmon Killebrew MUSCULAR SLUGGER WITH MONUMENTAL HOME RUN AND RBI SUCCESS. HIS 573 HOMERS OVER 22 YEARS RANK FIFTH ALL-TIME AND SECOND ONLY TO RUTH AMONG A.L. HITTERS. TIED OR LED A.L. IN HOME RUNS 6 TIMES. BELTED OVER 40 ON 8 OCCASIONS AND IS THIRD IN HOME RUN FREQUENCY. DROVE IN OVER 100 RUNS 9 TIMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I visited Cooperstown last month. The gallery where they keep the plaques is like a cathedral with a high vaulted ceiling. There had to be a hundred visitors but everybody just whispered like in Church. There are 258 plaques in the Hall, from Aaron to Yount. Each player plaque has his image, the teams and years he played, and a paragraph telling his records and accomplishments. So now when I think about if a player should go to the Hall I think about what they will write on his plaque and if I have trouble coming up with stuff, I don't think he should go. So I challenge you to write Frank Thomas' Hall of Fame plaque, convince me. Here's two examples of recent players: Eddie Murray A POWERFUL AND PRODUCTIVE SWITCH-HITTER WHOSE CONSISTENCY OVER 21 SEASONS LED TO 3,255 HITS, 560 DOUBLES, 504 HOME RUNS, 5,397 TOTAL BASES, AND 1,917 RBI. THIRD PLAYER EVER TO CONNECT FOR MORE THAN 500 HOME RUNS AND 3,000 HITS. PLAYED IN THREE WORLD SERIES, WINNING WITH THE ORIOLES IN 1983. AN EIGHT-TIME ALL-STAR AND THE 1977 A.L. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR. A SKILLED FIELDER, HE EARNED THREE GOLD GLOVE AWARDS, SETTING MAJOR LEAGUE RECORDS FOR GAMES PLAYED AND ASSISTS BY A FIRST BASEMAN Harmon Killebrew MUSCULAR SLUGGER WITH MONUMENTAL HOME RUN AND RBI SUCCESS. HIS 573 HOMERS OVER 22 YEARS RANK FIFTH ALL-TIME AND SECOND ONLY TO RUTH AMONG A.L. HITTERS. TIED OR LED A.L. IN HOME RUNS 6 TIMES. BELTED OVER 40 ON 8 OCCASIONS AND IS THIRD IN HOME RUN FREQUENCY. DROVE IN OVER 100 RUNS 9 TIMES. 'kay, I'll give it a shot. 439 HOME RUNS, 1439 RBI'S IN OVER 14 SEASONS. 1308 RUNS SCORED. 2 TIME MVP AWARD WINNER (1993 & 1994). .308 CAREER BATTING WITH A1997 AL BATTING AVERAGE CHAMPIONSHIP WITH A .347 BA. 2113 CAREER HITS AND 444 CAREER DOUBLES. .800 CAREER BA IN 5 ALL-STAR GAME APPEARANCES. ONE OF 2 PLAYERS TO EVER HAVE AT LEAST 8 CONSECUTIVE SEASONS OF 20 HR, 100 RBI'S, 100 BB, & 100 RUNS SCORED. Not my best effort, but I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 By the time Frank's finished, he should have 500 HR, 1000+ extra base hits, 2700+ hits altogether, and 1750+ walks. That extra base figure is no joke...there are only 24 guys in that club as of now, and Andre Dawson is the only one not in the Hall Of Fame. From the looks of things, Dawson will never make it. Sutter and Rice got more votes than he did earlier this year. That is what I would call a travesty, my friends. Frank will enter his 16th season in a White Sox uniform next year, and he has a career OPS of 996. Let's just say for the sake of argument that he finishes with a 975 or 980 OPS. Show me one guy in the history of baseball that had a 975 OPS or better, and was left out of the hall. Let's call it a minimum of 7500 total plate appearances. ALL-TIME TOP 10 IN OPS 1. B Ruth 1.159 OPS in 10617 TPA 2. T Williams 1.115 OPS in 9789 TPA 3. L Gehrig 1.075 OPS in 9660 TPA 4. B Bonds 1.053 OPS in 11584 TPA 5. J Foxx 1.034 OPS in 9670 TPA 6. H Greenberg 1.014 OPS in 6096 TPA 7. M Ramirez 1.010 OPS in 6575 TPA 8. R Hornsby 1.000 OPS in 9475 TPA 9. F Thomas .996 OPS in 8478 TPA 10. M McGwire .982 OPS in 7660 TPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomafr04.shtml I'm sure most of you have seen this but read up on the Black Ink and Grey Ink tests along with the other HOF stuff. It makes a pretty strong case for Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Black Ink: Batting - 21 (96) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 189 (46) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 53.5 (54) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 179.0 (48) (Likely HOFer > 100) Look at how Frank blows away the likely hall of famer in HOF Monitor (especially) and the average hall of famer in Gray Ink. For those of you who question Frank's HOF worthiness, I dunno how you can ignore stuff like this. But continue to vegetate, by all means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Good info Hammerhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I think Frank will make the HOF. However, I don't think he will make 1st ballot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) I think Frank will make the HOF. However, I don't think he will make 1st ballot though. I happen to agree but the whole 1st, 2nd ballot thing to me is always a joke. Does his stats get better for the second ballot? It is easy to build an offensive case for the HoF, and when I hear the argument that DH doesn't have defense stats to factor in, I wonder how bad of a fielder would Frank have had to be to not get in? Has there been any player whose defense caused them to be a visitor at the HoF and not a display? More problematic to me, and equally worthy would be a one dimensionsal defensive player who really throws the leather and bats .250 from the #8 spot all their career. If we consider a one dimensional player (DH) shouldn't we also consider a one dimensional defense player? Perhaps a catcher with a gun and no passed balls for 10 seasons. I don't have a player in mind, just throwing it out there. Edited October 14, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I know what you mean about it being a joke but for some reason they won't let you on the 1st ballot unless you have seriously insane #'s or they like you a lot. lol Frank's #'s will be good enough to make it. He dominated the early and mid 90's more so than pretty much anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I think before all is said and done both Thomas and Bagwell will be HoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) I think before all is said and done both Thomas and Bagwell will be HoF. Looking over the list of HoF members elected the past 25 years shows a strong slant towards guys who at least played in a World Series. IMHO, both guys are a long shot right now. Frank more so than Bags (to play in a WS) Edited October 14, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 2 time MVP 2 time MVP. This shouldnt even be a debate, his numbers are ridiculous. I believe that he had over 100 walks, 30 HR's 100 RBI's and hit over 300 7 years in a row. I believe the only other person to do that in consecutive seasons was Ted William who did it only once. I may be off on those numbers, but it is something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 2 time MVP 2 time MVP. This shouldnt even be a debate, his numbers are ridiculous. I believe that he had over 100 walks, 30 HR's 100 RBI's and hit over 300 7 years in a row. I believe the only other person to do that in consecutive seasons was Ted William who did it only once. I may be off on those numbers, but it is something like that. I believe it is 20 homeruns, 100 rbi's, 100 walks, and 100 runs scored. So thomas would have down that eight years in a row. Williams did it 6 times in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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