danman31 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 The Bulls will do what they do every year. Start pathetically slow, then the younger players learn the league, the other non playoff teams have less motivation, and (to use a Hawkism) poof the Bulls have 27-32 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 The Heat will win about 50 games, that division is god-awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Nocioni is a pretty damn good defender too. Yes, 2 and a half good defensive players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Yes, 2 and a half good defensive players. Frank Williams is a good defender too if he gets the chance to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Frank Williams is a good defender too if he gets the chance to play. I agree but he is third on the depth chart so he will be lucky to get 5-8 minutes a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I agree but he is third on the depth chart so he will be lucky to get 5-8 minutes a game. I actually think he's the back up PG to Hinrich. And he'll probably see some time at the SG as well. If he's good enough to get crunch time minutes in the playoffs for the Knicks (even if was a badly depleted Knicks squad) the Bulls should find some minutes for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I actually think he's the back up PG to Hinrich. And he'll probably see some time at the SG as well. If he's good enough to get crunch time minutes in the playoffs for the Knicks (even if was a badly depleted Knicks squad) the Bulls should find some minutes for the guy. Coming into the year pargo is backing hinrich up. Edit: Nocioni is also starting ahead of deng, to start the year anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Good luck to Pierce, Ostertag, Hinrich, Collison, Pollard, Vaughn, Gooden, LaFrentz!!!!!!!!! oh and Go Bulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Atlantic Boston* Philidelphia* New York* New Jersey Toronto Central Detroit* Indiana* Cleveland* Milwaukee Chicago Southeast Miami* Orlando* Washington Atlanta Charlotte Northwest Minnesota* Denver* Utah* Portland Seattle Pacific Sacramento* Phoenix Los Angeles Lakers Golden State Los Angeles Clippers Southwest San Antonio* Houston* Dallas* Memphis* New Orleans San Antonio over Detroit MVP: Tim Duncan Rookie of the Year: Jameer Nelson Sixth Man of the Year: Nene Most Improved Player: Al Harrington All NBA Team: PG - Steve Francis SG - Tracy McGrady SF - Andrei Kirilenko PF - Tim Duncan C - Shaquille O' Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I really think people are overrating the Heat. Wade is a very good young player, but he isn't in the same class as Kobe. Shaq has already shown signs of aging, and isn't quite the player he was 4-5 years ago. So the comparison of Wade/Shaq and Kobe/Shaq doesn't hold water. Furthermore, the Heat have absolutely no complementary players. Jones is well past his prime and liability in some cases. Haslem and Butler are bench players on most teams. There bench is one of the worst in the NBA. They are lucky they play in a very weak division. Palehosefan, are you a Heat fan, because you overexegerate almost every Heat player with your projected stats. The Pistons and Pacers are the cream of the East, and either have the talent to win it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I really think people are overrating the Heat. Wade is a very good young player, but he isn't in the same class as Kobe. Shaq has already shown signs of aging, and isn't quite the player he was 4-5 years ago. So the comparison of Wade/Shaq and Kobe/Shaq doesn't hold water. Furthermore, the Heat have absolutely no complementary players. Jones is well past his prime and liability in some cases. Haslem and Butler are bench players on most teams. There bench is one of the worst in the NBA. They are lucky they play in a very weak division. Palehosefan, are you a Heat fan, because you overexegerate almost every Heat player with your projected stats. The Pistons and Pacers are the cream of the East, and either have the talent to win it all. I agree with every thing you have to say. While shaq may be declining he is still head and shoulders over the centers in the east. He will score 25 a game, ten or more boards and 2.5 blocks a game this year i feel. At least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 A lot of people talk about how Shaq is so much better than Eastern Conference centers, but what was he going up against in the West last year? Your major playoff contenders? The Kings, Timberwolves, and Spurs. Their centers? Vlade, Olowakandi, and Nesterovic. And I have a lot of respect for Yao Ming, but Shaq could score on that guy at will. Ratliff is too short. You know, the more I think about it, he probably will have about the same caliber of competition out of the C spot in the East, if not better. There's Ben Wallace, Dalembert, Blount, Ilgauskas, Magloire, Kwame Brown, Jeff Foster, etc. Also, are we hyping up a 32 year old who weighs 340 pounds? Like I said on page 2 of this thread, you can count on at least 20 games lost with injuries. It'll probably be more like 30, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Also, are we hyping up a 32 year old who weighs 340 pounds? Like I said on page 2 of this thread, you can count on at least 20 games lost with injuries. It'll probably be more like 30, actually. You obviously haven't seen pictures of the guy in Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 You obviously haven't seen pictures of the guy in Miami. You're right...he's down to about 320. So we have a 32 year old who weighs 320 pounds. This is a guy whose knees have taken 12 NBA years of pounding. 44 wins, although I could be wrong, I suppose. But I've seen stuff like this way too much since I started following basketball back in the late 80s. I have two words: Moses Malone. So much hype when the heavy dinosaurs go elsewhere, and so little results. It hardly ever fails. But I could be wrong...I can't reiterate that enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Bulls are on TV tonight I think at 630 on Comcast Sports net, get your game on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 "Furthermore, the Heat have absolutely no complementary players. Jones is well past his prime and liability in some cases." I would love to hear how Jones is a liability, he is still an elite shooter and is adequate defensively. Please tell me where I exaggerated the stats, I used last years stats exactly. Wade isn't on Kobe's level yet, you are right. But then again LA didn't have a legitimate 3rd scoring option like Eddie Jones. Not to mention how bad the Heats division is, they will beat up on people. Of course you can say Shaq will miss 20 games this year, but thats just opinion. I could say Jermaine O'neal and Ben Wallace will both tear their hamstrings and be out for the year and it doesn't matter. Shaq has played in atleast 67 games the last 5 years, there is absolutely no reason that he can't do that this year since he lost 30 pounds. Again its all opinion and I'm backing mine up with stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Of course you can say Shaq will miss 20 games this year, but thats just opinion. I could say Jermaine O'neal and Ben Wallace will both tear their hamstrings and be out for the year and it doesn't matter. Shaq has had so many little nagging injuries...they add up over time. Think about his knees, his age, etc. Basically, saying that Shaq will be healthy this year is almost like saying that Fred Taylor of the Jaguars will stay healthy...there's no precedent for it. But I stress the lack of depth on the Heat first and foremost. Having a bench that is comparable to the Charlotte Bobcats will NOT get you 50 wins. I don't care how bad your division is...after all, they will only play the teams within their division 4 games a piece. 16 games is not even 1/5 of their total games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 There's something very wrong with this picture. Under the new plan, teams will play divisional opponents four times each (two home games/two road games), conference opponents outside the division three or four times each and opponents outside the conference two times each (one home game/one road game). The three regular season divisional winners in each conference will earn a playoff berth and one of the conference's top three playoff seeds based on regular season record. The remaining five playoff berths for each conference will be based on regular season records with no regard to divisional alignment. Home-court advantage throughout the NBA playoffs will be based solely on regular season record, not playoff seeding, thus a divisional winner that has a higher playoff seed than an opponent will not necessarily have home-court advantage in the playoff series. Hypothetically speaking, if Miami wins their division with a 43-39 record and lands that #3 seed (the 3 division winners get the top 3 seeds), they could lose home-court advantage to a 6th seed team with a 44-38 record like the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round! Now is that f***ing retarded, or what? Who dropped the ball on this one? Or is it just me? Hopefully, it's just me. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 A lot of people talk about how Shaq is so much better than Eastern Conference centers, but what was he going up against in the West last year? Your major playoff contenders? The Kings, Timberwolves, and Spurs. Their centers? Vlade, Olowakandi, and Nesterovic. And I have a lot of respect for Yao Ming, but Shaq could score on that guy at will. Ratliff is too short. You know, the more I think about it, he probably will have about the same caliber of competition out of the C spot in the East, if not better. There's Ben Wallace, Dalembert, Blount, Ilgauskas, Magloire, Kwame Brown, Jeff Foster, etc. Also, are we hyping up a 32 year old who weighs 340 pounds? Like I said on page 2 of this thread, you can count on at least 20 games lost with injuries. It'll probably be more like 30, actually. Everyone is hyping Shaq, who is in shape, and that's somehow worse than you hyping Kwame Brown, who has done exactly what in his career? Also, Fred Taylor hasn't missed a game since 2001, so there is a precedent for staying Shaq can stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 "Furthermore, the Heat have absolutely no complementary players. Jones is well past his prime and liability in some cases." I would love to hear how Jones is a liability, he is still an elite shooter and is adequate defensively. Please tell me where I exaggerated the stats, I used last years stats exactly. Wade isn't on Kobe's level yet, you are right. But then again LA didn't have a legitimate 3rd scoring option like Eddie Jones. Not to mention how bad the Heats division is, they will beat up on people. Of course you can say Shaq will miss 20 games this year, but thats just opinion. I could say Jermaine O'neal and Ben Wallace will both tear their hamstrings and be out for the year and it doesn't matter. Shaq has played in atleast 67 games the last 5 years, there is absolutely no reason that he can't do that this year since he lost 30 pounds. Again its all opinion and I'm backing mine up with stats. Palehosefan, do you actually watch any of the Heat games? Jones has to be the oldest 32 year old in the league. He is no longer an "elite" shooter as you claim. He is a HUGE liability defensively, and might be one of the worst defensive 2 guards in the game. He was no existant in the playoffs once Wade took over the team. With Shaq and Wade running this team, Jones is going to become a nonfactor and will probably get half the touches he did in the past. Lets not forget that the past 4 years he has been the go to guy in Miami, and the simple fact that he is now the 3rd option will cause a significant decrease in his numbers. Mark my words, Jones will average under 15 points a game this season. You overrate the stats because you neglect the fact that the majority of the Heat players will get fewer touches now that Shaq is in town and Wade has taken over this team. Miami is going to be like LA all over(only Shaq/Wade isn't close to Shaq/Kobe) when it comes to complementary players. Shaq has a history of nagging injuries, especially as he has gotten older, so saying that JO'Neal or Wallace are just as likely to get hurt holds no water. Sure you use stats, but they are projected stats that lack common sense, which doesn't make them accurate and a reasonable way to back up your opinions. I could point to the stats put up by complementary players in LA since that will probably be a more accurate projection of what to expect from Miami's complementary players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I predict the Bulls will still suck this year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Everyone is hyping Shaq, who is in shape, and that's somehow worse than you hyping Kwame Brown, who has done exactly what in his career? Also, Fred Taylor hasn't missed a game since 2001, so there is a precedent for staying Shaq can stay healthy. By hype I meant all of the talk about Shaq immediately turning them into a championship contender. Sorry, I should have worded that one better. Fred Taylor's 5 year history: 1999 Jacksonville 10 Games 2000 Jacksonville 13 Games 2001 Jacksonville 2 Games 2002 Jacksonville 16 Games 2003 Jacksonville 16 Games And he wasn't anywhere near 100% in 2002 or 2003. That is reflected in Jacksonville's combined record over those two seasons. That is not to say that Taylor is the only reason they lost so many games...the team as whole lacked depth. He actually averaged 4.6 yards per carry, but as you probably know if you've caught Jacksonville games over the past couple years, he's always good for that one long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Is no one high on Ben Gordon? I think he is going to be a stud. I think he will lead the Bulls in scoring and I like the backcourt of him and Hinrich. I do agree its put up or shut up time for both Chandler and Curry, but one things for sure. This team WILL be more exciting to watch. I predict them to win more then 30 games this year. Possibly make the playoffs next year, and then, who knows. This is a very very good young nucleous. Andres Nocioni is also someone who can contribute a lot to this team. I've heard reports that he was the best free agent signing of the offseason. They also have a much stronger bench with Piatowski, Davis, Harrington and Adrian Griffin. Not to mention Deng. I, for one, am optimisitic, especially with Skiles as their coach and Paxson as the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Is no one high on Ben Gordon? I think he is going to be a stud. I think he will lead the Bulls in scoring and I like the backcourt of him and Hinrich. I do agree its put up or shut up time for both Chandler and Curry, but one things for sure. This team WILL be more exciting to watch. I predict them to win more then 30 games this year. Possibly make the playoffs next year, and then, who knows. This is a very very good young nucleous. Andres Nocioni is also someone who can contribute a lot to this team. I've heard reports that he was the best free agent signing of the offseason. They also have a much stronger bench with Piatowski, Davis, Harrington and Adrian Griffin. Not to mention Deng. I, for one, am optimisitic, especially with Skiles as their coach and Paxson as the GM. Gordon will score about 10-12 a game this year. 15 if he does gets the ball a s*** load. I feel curry will finally break out this year and average twenty a game now that he is finally in shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 i think shaq/wade is going to be a much better combo then the shaq/kobe..... yes kobe is a better player but him and shaq did not play together all to well because they both want to be the go to guy on the team... wade has already stated he rather pass then shoot anytime... if kobe wasnt so greedy in the playoffs and actually fed shaq the ball some they could of won it all... but who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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