qwerty Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I do know that Omar wants a two year deal. I think that could be doable in the right circumstance. I wouldn't mind giving him a 1 year contract with a option for 06. I just don't know about a guaranteed two year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I wouldn't mind giving him a 1 year contract with a option for 06. I just don't know about a guaranteed two year deal. Those were my thoughts also, 1 year with a team option would be ideal. I think he'll be 40 after he finishes a 2 year deal right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Those were my thoughts also, 1 year with a team option would be ideal. I think he'll be 40 after he finishes a 2 year deal right? He will be 39 turning 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 He will be 39 turning 40. Actually he will be 38 next season and 39 the next. He will not turn 40 until a month into the 2007 season. April 24, 1967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 If they play their cards right they could have Vizquel at SS, R.Alomar at 2B and S.Alomar at C. They may not beat the Twins but they would be hell on wheels in the Cleveland old timers game! Seriously, you have to worry about when Omar will hit the wall. He looked great last year and the Indians didn't seem to baby him but there comes a point in everybody's career when the tank is empty. It would be a serious risk to stake your season on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I really like the idea of having a solid shortstop and a good 2 hole hitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I think it is ironic that so many people have mentioned the power stats of Vizquel. We wouldn't be getting Omar to drive in runs people. We would get him to do the same things that he has done to us forever now. Take pitches, bunt runners over, play smart defense, run the bases well, steal bases, etc. He would be hitting #1 or #2 for us. This whole he has 59 RBIs mentality has been the problem with the team since 2000. We need more role players, not more RBI guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Omar will be brought in to hustle, play small ball, and defense, nothing else. Thats hat we would need him for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 The rbi are not important, I agree w/ that. But it's not like he's an ob machine, either. His obp this year was .353, which is good, but he's been around .320 twice in the last few years, too. His fielding isn't anything special, b/c he simply doesn't get to as many balls as before. We should be able to get a better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Visquel has always been a solid #2 hitter for the Indians. And he's still a gold glove shortstop. He'd also probably lead our team in stolen bases. He's a smart player; a kind that we seem to have been missing in recent years. I say try to get him on a two year deal. I saw enough of Harris this year, so I'd have no problem making Uribe the every day second baseman. I think Uribe earned a starting spot next year, so we should try to get him in somewhere. Hell, if Crede continues his lack of progress, I'd be fine with Uribe at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 If they play their cards right they could have Vizquel at SS, R.Alomar at 2B and S.Alomar at C. They may not beat the Twins but they would be hell on wheels in the Cleveland old timers game! Seriously, you have to worry about when Omar will hit the wall. He looked great last year and the Indians didn't seem to baby him but there comes a point in everybody's career when the tank is empty. It would be a serious risk to stake your season on him. Who said anything about staking the season on him? The only thing that has been said is that acquiring him would be a good "piece" of the puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Of Love Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Seriously, you have to worry about when Omar will hit the wall. He looked great last year and the Indians didn't seem to baby him but there comes a point in everybody's career when the tank is empty. It would be a serious risk to stake your season on him. First of all, the White Sox clearly won't be "staking their season" on Omar Vizquel. If he is brought in as a FA, it wouldn't be a marquee signing or a huge deal, etc. It would be signing a guy to play no doubt an important, but not make-or-break role. If there was a reason - declining production, injury-proneness - to think that Vizquel will soon hit a wall, it would be given credence. But there's nothing to support that claim. In the last 4 yrs, he's only been hurt and missed a significant amount of games once (03) and he rebounded strongly this last year. Baseball players don't just suddenly fall off a cliff in terms of their age, and I have no problems signing a 38-year old guy if there's nothing to suggest that his age is a major liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Actually he will be 38 next season and 39 the next. He will not turn 40 until a month into the 2007 season. April 24, 1967 I know, i was just saying that in the final year of a two year deal he will be 39 and that he won't be 40 until the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 If there was a reason - declining production, injury-proneness - to think that Vizquel will soon hit a wall, it would be given credence. But there's nothing to support that claim. In the last 4 yrs, he's only been hurt and missed a significant amount of games once (03) and he rebounded strongly this last year. How can you say his production hasn't declined? From 1996-2000, his obp was .362, .347, .358, .397, .377. From 2001-2004, it has been .323, .341, .321, and .353. He's getting on base less, he has fewer steals (on average he seems to steal 20 fewer bases per year), his defensive stats have become worse (gets to about 84% of the balls in his area, compared to 88% in his prime). Now, Vizquel does do some things well. He doesn't strike out, he draws some walks, and he doesn't get caught stealing. But he doesn't get on base at any great clip (avg obp over the last four years, entirely excluding 2003, is .339) -- is that worth $6 mil for 2 years, taking all the other factors into account? And that's counting on no further decline. We're talking about one pretty good year in the past 4, one so-so year (2002, although his value then was largely due to his power), and 2 bad ones, including an injury year. That doesn't impress me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I think it is ironic that so many people have mentioned the power stats of Vizquel. We wouldn't be getting Omar to drive in runs people. We would get him to do the same things that he has done to us forever now. Take pitches, bunt runners over, play smart defense, run the bases well, steal bases, etc. He would be hitting #1 or #2 for us. This whole he has 59 RBIs mentality has been the problem with the team since 2000. We need more role players, not more RBI guys. Exactly, great post 2k4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Who said anything about staking the season on him? The only thing that has been said is that acquiring him would be a good "piece" of the puzzle. If he is to be just a 'piece' he doesn't consistently solve the 2 hitter problem does he? I have the utmost respect for Vizquel and his accomplishments but you've got to consider that you may not be able to run him out there every day, or that if you do he will wear down. Either way you get lesser results from either the bench player or a tired Omar. All the arguments in his favor (and they are very good arguments) have to be pro-rated by his age. Real old shortstops never win. In the last 25 years, the oldest regular shortstop on a WS champion team was Larry Bowa at age 35 for the 1980 Phillies. The average age is 27.6 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I have the utmost respect for Vizquel and his accomplishments but you've got to consider that you may not be able to run him out there every day, or that if you do he will wear down. Either way you get lesser results from either the bench player or a tired Omar. All the arguments in his favor (and they are very good arguments) have to be pro-rated by his age. Real old shortstops never win. In the last 25 years, the oldest regular shortstop on a WS champion team was Larry Bowa at age 35 for the 1980 Phillies. The average age is 27.6 years old. So would you rather have Uribe play SS everyday just because he is younger?? If he is to be just a 'piece' he doesn't consistently solve the 2 hitter problem does he? That makes no sense at all. One has nothing to do with the other. If you are suggesting the Sox go after Renteria or Cabrera, then fine, as long as the sum total of the additions betters the Sox. I don't know what you want here. Making getting Vizquel a piece of the puzzle means getting him at a lower cost than a high dollar SS will allow the Sox to better improve in other areas, including pitching. The bottom line is that the sum of moves that can be made in the offseason is what is important. Some moves allow others to happen. Some moves cause lesser moves to be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Making getting Vizquel a piece of the puzzle means getting him at a lower cost than a high dollar SS will allow the Sox to better improve in other areas, including pitching. You seem to focus on a ss. But it seems to me that (unless we have no faith in Uribe) we only need a middle infielder. Uribe can play ss and we can pick up a 2b. I'd far prefer Placido Polanco to Vizquel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 So would you rather have Uribe play SS everyday just because he is younger?? I think the odds are that Uribe would contribute more as an everyday regular over all six months of NEXT season then Vizquel. That said, if Vizquel could be mixed in with a Uribe then yes the team will be stronger. Maybe thats the only disagreement here, I just can't see the Sox paying the 3-4 million I think Omar will get and using him as anything less than as a regular, and I think Omar is too old to be a regular in 2005. God bless him, he played 148 games last year but history is against him ever repeating it. I'm also the same guy who thought Carlton Fisk was washed up at 38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 You seem to focus on a ss. But it seems to me that (unless we have no faith in Uribe) we only need a middle infielder. Uribe can play ss and we can pick up a 2b. I'd far prefer Placido Polanco to Vizquel. If picking up a 2B works better, than fine. I just get the hunch that the Sox aren't quite ready to turn SS over everyday to Uribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 From this morning's Chicago Tribune Sports... "The Sox will have organizational meetings in Las Vegas in early November, and baseball sources have said they will make a hard push for free-agent Cleveland shortstop Omar Vizquel, although (Kenny) WIlliams would not confirm that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 From this morning's Chicago Tribune Sports... "The Sox will have organizational meetings in Las Vegas in early November, and baseball sources have said they will make a hard push for free-agent Cleveland shortstop Omar Vizquel, although (Kenny) WIlliams would not confirm that." Well that is good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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