AddisonStSox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If Maggs was going to be OK Carl never would have been brought it, and that's a "rumor" I believe 1500000% in. Garcia $$ was carryover from '03. Jose was in the budget from '03 (not the carryover.. but in the plan). And guys.. please don't argue over this crap. It's October... lot's of time. Damn I hate being out in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If the sox spend 14 million this year it will shock the s*** right out of me. From what I'm hearing... you're going to be shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 My latest blog entry on this subject: The writing has been on the wall for some time in Chicago and to most Sox fans it appeared quite obvious that Ordonez would be playing elsewhere in 2005. The odds of him remaining a Sox are now miniscule now that Ordonez has switched agents to Scott Boras. If the Yankees are the evil empire of baseball, then Scott Boras is the evil dictator of the sports agent world. He does an outstanding job getting his players as much green as possible, but he also burns friendship, makes no commitments, and makes no mention of hometown discounts. To him, its all about the benajamins. Now that’s not a problem from an agent, but its already a given that the White Sox shy away from Boras clients. Many teams in baseball shy away from his clients. His demands are usually excess and he will do anything possible to get his clients as much money as possible (Its his job afterall). However, the Sox won’t meet his demands. Ordonez was already offered the largest contract in the history of the Sox (reportedly) and he turned it down. He demanded Vladdy money even though he doesn’t have a Vladdy like presence in the lineup. Don’t get me wrong, Magglio is a good player, but he is not a 14 million a year player. As much as I don’t like Frank Thomas, Thomas is much more productive, as judged by his high OBP and OPS throughout his career, including the healthy portion of this season. Ordonez has yet to eclipsed the elite status of a 1.000 OPS, one of the true signs of a super star. In fact his career is .978 and his career OPS is .889. In the 2004 campaign, Ordonez was posting a mediocre .836 OPS while hitting .292 with 9 HR and 37 RBI in 52 games. If he played in all 162 games, that would project to 28 HR’s, and 111 RBI’s. No doubt those would be good numbers, 6 million a year better then Carlos Lee or Paul Konerko?? Lee hit .305 with a .891 OPS (higher then Magglio’s) hitting 31 HR’s and knocking in 99. Konerko batted .277 with an .894 OPS, 41 HR’s, and 117 RBI’s. Now lets take a look at the much maligned Frank Thomas. In 74 games he had a .271 AVG, .997 OPS, 18 HR and 49 RBI. Projected over a full season, that’s 39 homers and 107 RBI’s. All three of these players posted better numbers on the season then Magglio, statistically. Albeit Magglio plays a more important position, but not 6 million a year more important. The 6 million figure is representing what Lee is expected to make next year, cause in fact he was paid 7.5 million less then Ordonez in 04. Realistically the only thing that differs him from Carlos Lee is consistency. I don’t think any of us would be bantering for the Sox to offer Carlos Lee 14 million a year. If the Sox are going to spend 14 million a year, it should be on a special player like Beltran. Carlos Beltran, another Boras client (although rumors have been going around that he may switch agents) would be the better option. Beltran is better defensively, is one of the best base-runners in the game, and percentage wise the most effective base-stealer of all time (89.3% success rate). He also has plus power, the ability to hit for average, and oh ya, he plays gold glover caliber defense in centerfield. He also provides a switch hitting presence in the middle of the lineup, which will break up the monotony of righties. To be fair, Beltran hasn’t posted a 1.000 OPS either. But he was 2 HR’s away from going 40/40 this year. Is it realistic the Sox will get Beltran, No…but if your going to pay 14-16 million a year, you better make sure you get a super-star and Magglio is not a super star. So Maggs, thanks for all the great years you had here, but good riddance. The Sox are better off with an extra 14 mill divided up amongst other players or Carlos Beltran, then they would have been with you. Note: It is quite possible the money the Sox offered from Maggs has already been given out in the form of Freddy Garcia and Jose Contreras. But if it isn’t, the Sox will be active this off-season, no doubt. Regardless of the fact I expect them to be active, the question is will they be active on the trade front (Which is a given considering “Trader Kenny” is at the helm) or on the free agent front as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If Maggs was going to be OK Carl never would have been brought it, and that's a "rumor" I believe 1500000% in. Garcia $$ was carryover from '03. Jose was in the budget from '03 (not the carryover.. but in the plan). And guys.. please don't argue over this crap. It's October... lot's of time. What else are we supposed to do, watch the Yankees and Red Sox? :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 From what I'm hearing... you're going to be shocked. That is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Its not quantum physics. I think even you can understand. We had money to spend...lots of it...Maggs didn't get it...NOW, that money can be spent on different players, a GOOD player, at the same talent level of Maggs, a star...or multiple players. Funny how that works huh? You mean like when they got us a stud pitcher with the money they didn't pay Colon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Note: It is quite possible the money the Sox offered from Maggs has already been given out in the form of Freddy Garcia and Jose Contreras. But if it isn’t, the Sox will be active this off-season, no doubt. Regardless of the fact I expect them to be active, the question is will they be active on the trade front (Which is a given considering “Trader Kenny” is at the helm) or on the free agent front as well. Herein lies our problem. Lets use a big Pot of money as a representation of JR's wallet. The amount of money in this Pot is a SET figure. A concrete number. Now, I believe our confusion lies in the fact that we are unsure what number that concrete number really is. The big chunk out of that pot that would have been given to Mags is either/ a)given to Freddy, Jurassic, Jose or b)yet to be spent. I'm hoping for b...but we dont know yet. If someone can give me a link or something to solve this delima it would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 You mean like when they got us a stud pitcher with the money they didn't pay Colon? Oh get over it.. Colon refused the $$ and it was GUARANTEED. That fat slob - but awesome inning eater.. - walked away from here on his own. I wanted him to stay probably more than anyone else here - because he's a gamer - but him not here is not the Sox fault. Not one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Oh get over it.. Colon refused the $$ and it was GUARANTEED. That fat slob - but awesome inning eater.. - walked away from here on his own. I wanted him to stay probably more than anyone else here - because he's a gamer - but him not here is not the Sox fault. Not one bit. Steff...I don't care that he left, I care that we didn't invest the money we were gonna give him on another player(s)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Steff...I don't care that he left, I care that we didn't invest the money we were gonna give him on another player(s)! What stud pitcher was there to replace him with...??? And don't reply with Randy Johnson. As well.. according to the financial increase the Sox did make.. they would have gone beyond the $12 million profit from the previous year by $7 million if Colon had signed. That means the payroll would have gone up $19 million last year.. How much is good enough for you..?? :banghead Ouch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 What stud pitcher was there to replace him with...??? And don't reply with Randy Johnson. As well.. according to the financial increase the Sox did make.. they would have gone beyond the $12 million profit from the previous year by $7 million if Colon had signed. That means the payroll would have gone up $19 million last year.. How much is good enough for you..?? :banghead Ouch.. I don't remember who was available at the time...but there had to be someone out there who was better than Danny Wright, Jon Rausch, Schoenweis, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I'm shocked!! :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I'm shocked!! :rolly I'll admit when I am wrong! (Just doesn't happen a lot!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I;mn tired of the Sox offering these sham contracts where money is deferred without interest. They did it with Colon and did it with Maggs. They are just trying to save face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I;mn tired of the Sox offering these sham contracts where money is deferred without interest. They did it with Colon and did it with Maggs. They are just trying to save face. I agree 100%! (Be prepared to be attacked by the "Reinsdorf apologists"!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I agree 100%! (Be prepared to be attacked by the "Reinsdorf apologists"!) I know you didn't buy that beer at the ballpark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I;mn tired of the Sox offering these sham contracts where money is deferred without interest. They did it with Colon and did it with Maggs. They are just trying to save face. What part of the offer to Colon was GUARANTEED did you not understand..? Also.. the contract to Maggs was GUARANTEED with incentive clauses. Not deferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 What part of the offer to Colon was GUARANTEED did you not understand..? Also.. the contract to Maggs was GUARANTEED with incentive clauses. Not deferred. "Way back...he looks up...She can put it on the boardddddddddddd, Yes!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 There is nothing wrong or greedy about Magglio hiring Boras to be his agent. He wasn't coming back here anyway. FWIW, JR would negotiate a contract with Boras. In fact, KW tried to get Boras to listen to him about ARod, and 2 years ago, with Maddux. Boras was the one not interested in listening. Concerning the money left over from not signing Colon. There was none. KW has said time and time again that if Colon had signed, he would have had to unload some contracts. The White Sox payroll will go up, and they will have a decent team. I am not too confident in KW to predict a great team, however. Even with an extra $20-30 million to play with, you must select the right players. Just ask Mets fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 There is nothing wrong or greedy about Magglio hiring Boras to be his agent. He wasn't coming back here anyway. FWIW, JR would negotiate a contract with Boras. In fact, KW tried to get Boras to listen to him about ARod, and 2 years ago, with Maddux. Boras was the one not interested in listening. Concerning the money left over from not signing Colon. There was none. KW has said time and time again that if Colon had signed, he would have had to unload some contracts. The White Sox payroll will go up, and they will have a decent team. I am not too confident in KW to predict a great team, however. Even with an extra $20-30 million to play with, you must select the right players. Just ask Mets fans. Great post. Let's not forget about draft picks like Bobby Seay and Bobby Hill too. Boras clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Can this also be a blessing in disguise for us (I'm thinking about draft picks here)? Say an arbitrator says Maggs is worth 11 million - and Boras tells Maggs, "I can get you five million more." Maggs & Boras then decline arbitration, and we get another nice draft pick? Or is that nonsense...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 You mean like when they got us a stud pitcher with the money they didn't pay Colon? Dude, who else was out there? The great Sidney Ponson? The only other 2 pitchers worth of merit were Andy Pettitte and Greg Maddux. The Astros & Yankees got into that bidding war only, and Pettitte quickly narrowed his choice to those 2, & you knew there was no way the Cubs were gonna make the same mistake twice of losing Maddux unless the Yankees put a Brinks-truckload of cash at the Maddux doorstep. Outside of that, it was slim pickings. This year's group (Pedro, Pavano, Clement, Ortiz) is a little bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ok...new thought... Say the Sox could actually bring Mags back, for a one year contract loaded with incentives...would you or would you not want him back? Just say yes or no. My vote... No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I'd say yes but that's with a qualifier that we wouldn't have to give up someone else simply to keep Maggs. I wouldn't offer arbitration as I think he'd get 14-16 million. There's no way they'd turn that down. I believe that players never get less money via arbitration. Sometimes players agree to not accept arbitration in a handshake deal, and then the player allows the team to get the pick (happens with Oakland all the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Ok...new thought... Say the Sox could actually bring Mags back, for a one year contract loaded with incentives...would you or would you not want him back? Just say yes or no. My vote... No. No. Too many bridges have been burnt for me to even consider him an option at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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