Controlled Chaos Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 EDIT: (Matt Stone is one of the creators of Team America and South Park) "no shame in not voting" "if you don't know what you're talking about" I have no problem with that statement. It offended Sean Penn because, he thinks "the people that don't know what they're talking about" are votes for Kerry. It is every American's god given right to vote, but if you don't follow politics or read anything and don't know one politicians ideals from the other, then there is no shame in not voting. Voting just for the sake of voting is ridiculous. We vote for who we think is best capable to lead our country..we don't vote just to vote. We certainly shouldn't vote because a certain celebrity tells us we should and who we should vote for. The Vote or Die campaign. Is it just asking for people to vote or is it asking people to inform themselves and vote for who they think is best. I never been to a rally, but I'm quite sure who 50 Cent, Leonardo DiCaprio, Snoop Dogg, and Jay-Z and Ashton Kutcher are lobbying for when they are at these "Vote or Die" rallys. Is the goal to just have more young voters or better-informed ones? If you don't know anything and don't care, should you go punch a ticket cause Leonardo DiCaprio said to?? I don't think so and there is no shame in not doing so, cause you can't make an informed decision. That's your right. What if we got to vote on who the next right fielder for the sox was and Justin Timberlake, who never played baseball, decide to play? Informed sox fans would never ever vote for him, but I guarantee a lot of uninformed fans would and a lot of fans of Justin, but not of baseball or the sox would vote for him too. Most people here would say...."If you don't know anything about it then don't vote" but for some reason with politics...It's like who cares what ya know...just go and vote...and if ya don't, it's shame on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 EDIT: (Matt Stone is one of the creators of Team America and South Park) "no shame in not voting" "if you don't know what you're talking about" I have no problem with that statement. It offended Sean Penn because, he thinks "the people that don't know what they're talking about" are votes for Kerry. It is every American's god given right to vote, but if you don't follow politics or read anything and don't know one politicians ideals from the other, then there is no shame in not voting. Voting just for the sake of voting is ridiculous. We vote for who we think is best capable to lead our country..we don't vote just to vote. We certainly shouldn't vote because a certain celebrity tells us we should and who we should vote for. The Vote or Die campaign. Is it just asking for people to vote or is it asking people to inform themselves and vote for who they think is best. I never been to a rally, but I'm quite sure who 50 Cent, Leonardo DiCaprio, Snoop Dogg, and Jay-Z and Ashton Kutcher are lobbying for when they are at these "Vote or Die" rallys. Is the goal to just have more young voters or better-informed ones? If you don't know anything and don't care, should you go punch a ticket cause Leonardo DiCaprio said to?? I don't think so and there is no shame in not doing so, cause you can't make an informed decision. That's your right. What if we got to vote on who the next right fielder for the sox was and Justin Timberlake, who never played baseball, decide to play? Informed sox fans would never ever vote for him, but I guarantee a lot of uninformed fans would and a lot of fans of Justin, but not of baseball or the sox would vote for him too. Most people here would say...."If you don't know anything about it then don't vote" but for some reason with politics...It's like who cares what ya know...just go and vote...and if ya don't, it's shame on you. I've always been one to get pissed at the fact that not enough people vote, but he makes a very good point. What is the point in someone voting for Kerry or Bush or wheover if they have no clue as to why they are doing it? the problem is when you have people who complain and b**** about s*** but then don't vote because they think it doesn't make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Too many people I know are voting for Kerry simply because Bush is a poor public speaker and it makes him look more ignorant than he is. I agree with Stone on this one. While I'm not saying you should vote for Bush (Yes, I'm voting for Bush) you should at least look past his public speaking skills. Get informed, make the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I think when someone encourages people to vote, it is a given that they mean learn the issues, get infromed and then vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I don't look to Matt Stone or Trey Parker for anything other than irreverant entertainment. But I have no problem with what he said. Sean Penn would probably lose that stupid look on his face if he got the stick out of his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I have been saying that for years. If the only reason you are voting is because someone told you to, don't vote. If you don't want to take the time to find our SOMETHING about the issues, you are worthless. Your right to vote isn't worth crap unless you use it, but like anything else, if you don't use it wisely, you have just wasted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Thats my problem with all of the stars "stumping" for Kerry. You know damn well there will be thousands of people that vote for Kerry just because Bruce Springsteen or Joe Blow told them too. You see it all over hollywood, its an unfair advantage, but its life unfortunately, just another reason for me to never be a democrat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 Thats my problem with all of the stars "stumping" for Kerry. You know damn well there will be thousands of people that vote for Kerry just because Bruce Springsteen or Joe Blow told them too. You see it all over hollywood, its an unfair advantage, but its life unfortunately, just another reason for me to never be a democrat. I agree 100% and that's why Sean Penn freaked. Penn is basically saying...The ignorant people that vote will vote for Kerry. If I was a democrat, I'd be offended by his comments. Penn said this in reagrds to Stone's comment: "Not so well, to encourage irresponsibility that will ultimately lead to the disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation, and death of innocent people throughout the world. The vote matters to them. No one's ignorance, including a couple of hip cross-dressers, is an excuse." Penn is calling Stone ignorant for saying: "no shame in not voting, if you don't know what you're talking about"??? Are you serious?? Who's the one encouraging irresponsibility when you are saying that you SHOULD vote even if you don't know what you're talking about? Who's the ignorant one Sean, when you are pining for igonorat voters to vote, just cause you assume they will vote for Kerry? If an uninformed voter doesn't want to blindly punch a chad, isn't it ignorant to tell that person they are leading to the disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation, and death of innocent people? Isn't it ignorant to try to get people to vote for who YOU want instead of them informing themselves and making their own pick? People have the right to not vote if they see fit. It's part of our freedoms that Penn usually so demonstratively fights for. In this case he feels it hurts his cause of getting Kerry in office so he tries the guilt card. Somehow I think if this was about burning an American flag Penn wouldn't be stepping on our rights. As for voting in general, I think everyone should inform themselves and vote. We are lucky to have a country where your opinion counts. Our soldiers fight for that right. So get educated on the canidates policies and place your vote. Penn's Letter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Thats my problem with all of the stars "stumping" for Kerry. You know damn well there will be thousands of people that vote for Kerry just because Bruce Springsteen or Joe Blow told them too. You see it all over hollywood, its an unfair advantage, but its life unfortunately, just another reason for me to never be a democrat. Unfair advantage? Any celebs who support Bush have the freedom to do the same thing. Besides, many people vote a certain way or do not vote at all based on what someone told them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTUSChris Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Unfair advantage? Any celebs who support Bush have the freedom to do the same thing. Besides, many people vote a certain way or do not vote at all based on what someone told them. I think it's fair to say that more celebrities are Democrats than Republicans, so even if the Bush supporting celebrities spoke up more it would still be an "unfair advantage." Personally, I ignore the celebrities, but I know there are people out there who don't. The celebrities have a right to speak out just like everyone else does, but the unfairness is that the celebrities know they're not like "everyone else" and will speak out solely to influence people to do what they want them to do. I don't think that's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 I think it's fair to say that more celebrities are Democrats than Republicans, so even if the Bush supporting celebrities spoke up more it would still be an "unfair advantage." Personally, I ignore the celebrities, but I know there are people out there who don't. The celebrities have a right to speak out just like everyone else does, but the unfairness is that the celebrities know they're not like "everyone else" and will speak out solely to influence people to do what they want them to do. I don't think that's right. I still go back to the fact that if celebs support Bush (and there are many who do) they have the right to speak out as well. Is it unfair that there happen to be more of them who support Kerry or are more vocal about it? All celebs have the freedom to support and to speak out for whomever they like. Waht is unafir about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 I still go back to the fact that if celebs support Bush (and there are many who do) they have the right to speak out as well. Is it unfair that there happen to be more of them who support Kerry or are more vocal about it? All celebs have the freedom to support and to speak out for whomever they like. Waht is unafir about it? Personally I have a much bigger problem with the 527's running around saying whatever they want about whoever they want, then what some dillhole like Sean Penn thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Is it unfair that there happen to be more of them who support Kerry or are more vocal about it? Its the first part of that quote, there are a few vocal celeb's for Bush also, just not enough. I'll try to put it in perspective, say you put the ranchers on the tv as much as the entertainers. That could be an equal fight based on air time, however, not many people follow ranchers around wanting to know all about their life and idolize them. What I'm getting at is this, alot of entertainers are born into Democratic families, or choose to be Democrats based on the environment around them, mainly LA/Hollywood area which is a democratic hotbed as you know. Most ranchers are born into Republican familes etc etc. It just happens that entertainers are on tv alot more and get a chance to speak their minds to a national audience. It doesn't have to be ranchers either, you can use any group that is and has been pro-Republican for my argument. I would have no problem if the people that vote for Kerry, research the facts, and become educated about their choice. Don't base it solely on what someone tells you to do, that's almost totalistic. That goes for Bush supporters also. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your view, an ignorant vote counts the same as an informed vote. That seems to be whats fueling the Vote or Die campaign. I know its asking to much to ask for all votes to be an informed vote either way, but I can dream can't I :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Its the first part of that quote, there are a few vocal celeb's for Bush also, just not enough. I'll try to put it in perspective, say you put the ranchers on the tv as much as the entertainers. That could be an equal fight based on air time, however, not many people follow ranchers around wanting to know all about their life and idolize them. What I'm getting at is this, alot of entertainers are born into Democratic families, or choose to be Democrats based on the environment around them, mainly LA/Hollywood area which is a democratic hotbed as you know. Most ranchers are born into Republican familes etc etc. It just happens that entertainers are on tv alot more and get a chance to speak their minds to a national audience. It doesn't have to be ranchers either, you can use any group that is and has been pro-Republican for my argument. I would have no problem if the people that vote for Kerry, research the facts, and become educated about their choice. Don't base it solely on what someone tells you to do, that's almost totalistic. That goes for Bush supporters also. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your view, an ignorant vote counts the same as an informed vote. That seems to be whats fueling the Vote or Die campaign. I know its asking to much to ask for all votes to be an informed vote either way, but I can dream can't I :-). I gather that you are a Rep. and based on that, I think I see the point you are trying to make. Your frustration lies in the fact that a lot of people who happen to have access to a lot of people happen to be Dems. Further, those people could have the wrong kind of influence on a certain portion of the voting public. I see your point and it has some validity to it. However, if you look at it that way, every book or class or magazine article that you have ever read has a slant or even an agenda behind it. By the way, I don't think you have anything to worry about, Bush will win in Nov. Dems don't really want to win this election and inherit the mess that Iraq has become. Finally, here's my prediction: 4 more years of Bush, then Hillary vs. Guilliani in 2008, book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 However, if you look at it that way, every book or class or magazine article that you have ever read has a slant or even an agenda behind it. Alot of times thats indeed the case, whether its for certain products, or certain views not even about politics. But how many Republican's do you know that love a magazine or are a fan of a magazing that is "stumping" for a Democrat? I ask because I know there are alot of Republican fans of Springsteen and other entertainers etc that are "stumping" right now. Say if ESPN the magazine started stumping for Bush openly, alot of sports readers that aren't interested in politics would "Vote or Die" for Bush simply because of their favorite mag told them too. You know there would be alot of dissapointed ESPN subscribing democrats. I know its a stretch, but its hard to make a point without stretching on this issue. Also, how many times do you read about ranchers in magazines? :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Alot of times thats indeed the case, whether its for certain products, or certain views not even about politics. But how many Republican's do you know that love a magazine or are a fan of a magazing that is "stumping" for a Democrat? I ask because I know there are alot of Republican fans of Springsteen and other entertainers etc that are "stumping" right now. Say if ESPN the magazine started stumping for Bush openly, alot of sports readers that aren't interested in politics would "Vote or Die" for Bush simply because of their favorite mag told them too. You know there would be alot of dissapointed ESPN subscribing democrats. I know its a stretch, but its hard to make a point without stretching on this issue. Also, how many times do you read about ranchers in magazines? :-). I see your point and we could run off on a tangent about stars endorsing politicians, it's an interesting and very complicated issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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