KipWellsFan Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I'm not totally agaisnt his war or anything but don't any of you guys think this money could be used for more substantial world issues such as hunger and health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I'm not totally agaisnt his war or anything but don't any of you guys think this money could be used for more substantial world issues such as hunger and health care. that is one of the reasons for this war...saddam was using the oil for food program for himself and his republican gaurd...if you remember the seen in that first southern city where people were dancing in the streets the first question they asked soldiers was , where is the food , we are starving.. the money they got for oil that was supposed to feed the iraqi people was going to support saddam's war machine... i know alot of people on the left think this is for oil and other agendas....even if thats true one of the by products will be these people will get the food and medicine they wernt getting under saddam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I'm not totally agaisnt his war or anything but don't any of you guys think this money could be used for more substantial world issues such as hunger and health care. The US doesn't have nationalized health care. We got a disease industry. I mean, we don't have cures for cancer, AIDS, etc. but at least we have a pill that gets people erections! Woohoo for American priorities! Yeah, I think that the money could be a lot better spent especially since Universities around the nation are having to make drastic budget cuts (I know that the U of I has to make massive budget cuts and we may lose area specific political science, all mid size lectures and a couple hundred T.A.'s may lose their jobs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 that is one of the reasons for this war...saddam was using the oil for food program for himself and his republican gaurd...if you remember the seen in that first southern city where people were dancing in the streets the first question they asked soldiers was , where is the food , we are starving.. the money they got for oil that was supposed to feed the iraqi people was going to support saddam's war machine... i know alot of people on the left think this is for oil and other agendas....even if thats true one of the by products will be these people will get the food and medicine they wernt getting under saddam A lot of food and other items like that were also banned from being imported into the country under UN Sanctions. That's why groups like Voices in the Wilderness have to smuggle it past US Customs and then smuggle it past the Iraqi government as well. The UN Sanctions also did a great job of emaciating the Iraqi people and f***ing them over as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 that is one of the reasons for this war...saddam was using the oil for food program for himself and his republican gaurd...if you remember the seen in that first southern city where people were dancing in the streets the first question they asked soldiers was , where is the food , we are starving.. the money they got for oil that was supposed to feed the iraqi people was going to support saddam's war machine... i know alot of people on the left think this is for oil and other agendas....even if thats true one of the by products will be these people will get the food and medicine they wernt getting under saddam A lot of food and other items like that were also banned from being imported into the country under UN Sanctions. That's why groups like Voices in the Wilderness have to smuggle it past US Customs and then smuggle it past the Iraqi government as well. The UN Sanctions also did a great job of emaciating the Iraqi people and f***ing them over as well. hey im no fan of the UN..this situation should have been handled 12 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 that is one of the reasons for this war...saddam was using the oil for food program for himself and his republican gaurd...if you remember the seen in that first southern city where people were dancing in the streets the first question they asked soldiers was , where is the food , we are starving.. the money they got for oil that was supposed to feed the iraqi people was going to support saddam's war machine... i know alot of people on the left think this is for oil and other agendas....even if thats true one of the by products will be these people will get the food and medicine they wernt getting under saddam A lot of food and other items like that were also banned from being imported into the country under UN Sanctions. That's why groups like Voices in the Wilderness have to smuggle it past US Customs and then smuggle it past the Iraqi government as well. The UN Sanctions also did a great job of emaciating the Iraqi people and f***ing them over as well. hey im no fan of the UN..this situation should have been handled 12 years ago Agreed, if UN was more decisive this probably could have been sovled 12 years ago. I wasn't talking about US health care I was talking about helpiong ohter countries if that's even possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I'm not totally agaisnt his war or anything but don't any of you guys think this money could be used for more substantial world issues such as hunger and health care. The US doesn't have nationalized health care. We got a disease industry. I mean, we don't have cures for cancer, AIDS, etc. but at least we have a pill that gets people erections! Woohoo for American priorities! Yeah, I think that the money could be a lot better spent especially since Universities around the nation are having to make drastic budget cuts (I know that the U of I has to make massive budget cuts and we may lose area specific political science, all mid size lectures and a couple hundred T.A.'s may lose their jobs) the money we spent on the military could be used for other means. but until we live in the perfect utopia where some terrorist doesn't think we are the bad guy, no 9/11 or no weapons of mass destruction. then we have to use that money on means to defend ourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 that is one of the reasons for this war...saddam was using the oil for food program for himself and his republican gaurd...if you remember the seen in that first southern city where people were dancing in the streets the first question they asked soldiers was , where is the food , we are starving.. the money they got for oil that was supposed to feed the iraqi people was going to support saddam's war machine... i know alot of people on the left think this is for oil and other agendas....even if thats true one of the by products will be these people will get the food and medicine they wernt getting under saddam A lot of food and other items like that were also banned from being imported into the country under UN Sanctions. That's why groups like Voices in the Wilderness have to smuggle it past US Customs and then smuggle it past the Iraqi government as well. The UN Sanctions also did a great job of emaciating the Iraqi people and f***ing them over as well. hey im no fan of the UN..this situation should have been handled 12 years ago Agreed, if UN was more decisive this probably could have been sovled 12 years ago. I wasn't talking about US health care I was talking about helpiong ohter countries if that's even possible. a couple of yr ago, wasn't there a big hoopla on saddam bribing some of the un inspectors? i seem to remember something about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I was just saying to Jim last night.. "I'm going to call GWB and ask him if he can donate a million to the Steff & Jim charitable foundation." I mean seriously.. what's a million when you have $799,999 billion more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 the money we spent on the military could be used for other means. but until we live in the perfect utopia where some terrorist doesn't think we are the bad guy, no 9/11 or no weapons of mass destruction. then we have to use that money on means to defend ourself. We have the largest military in the entire world. f***, the last time we updated our military spending...the update was higher than the total spending that the next 15 countries in military might spend all together on their militaries combined. In 1999, Congress asked the Air Force if they needed more refueling tankers. They said no and Congress authorized the purchase of 100 more. (that's bloat if I have ever seen it.) I was making a commentary about the world health care too. Like in the late 90s (can't remember the year off the top of my head) but Al Gore went to S. Africa and told them that they could not make generic versions of AIDS preventing drugs or import them from other countries or the US would cut off all humanitarian aid because the US drug cartels, excuse me corporations, wanted a monopoly market. We can cut Pentagon bloat and the military industrial complex. I mean, like Star Wars that has already been called an impossibility...but let's waste millions on that, or even MOAB...let's waste millions on that too. Especially when children are starving etc. etc. etc. In 2000, the Pentagon said their budget for 5 years, they were getting $2 trillion. The General Accounting Office said that if we wanted to fix all public schools, it would only cost $212 billion. Nice to know where our priorities lie though in this country. We have homeless people, starving children, failing schools, but at least we have our erection pills and MOABs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 the money we spent on the military could be used for other means. but until we live in the perfect utopia where some terrorist doesn't think we are the bad guy, no 9/11 or no weapons of mass destruction. then we have to use that money on means to defend ourself. We have the largest military in the entire world. f***, the last time we updated our military spending...the update was higher than the total spending that the next 15 countries in military might spend all together on their militaries combined. In 1999, Congress asked the Air Force if they needed more refueling tankers. They said no and Congress authorized the purchase of 100 more. (that's bloat if I have ever seen it.) I was making a commentary about the world health care too. Like in the late 90s (can't remember the year off the top of my head) but Al Gore went to S. Africa and told them that they could not make generic versions of AIDS preventing drugs or import them from other countries or the US would cut off all humanitarian aid because the US drug cartels, excuse me corporations, wanted a monopoly market. We can cut Pentagon bloat and the military industrial complex. I mean, like Star Wars that has already been called an impossibility...but let's waste millions on that, or even MOAB...let's waste millions on that too. Especially when children are starving etc. etc. etc. In 2000, the Pentagon said their budget for 5 years, they were getting $2 trillion. The General Accounting Office said that if we wanted to fix all public schools, it would only cost $212 billion. Nice to know where our priorities lie though in this country. We have homeless people, starving children, failing schools, but at least we have our erection pills and MOABs! apu, our country has its flaws yes, but how is having a great military bad??? i want peace but it just really isnt possible with some of the crazy people in the world with weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 apu, our country has its flaws yes, but how is having a great military bad??? i want peace but it just really isnt possible with some of the crazy people in the world with weapons. I never said having a great military is bad. I said that the arms race is bad. There is no more Soviet 'Evil Empire' for us to fight anymore. No justification for the Star Wars program. Do you think that Star Wars will stop suitcase bombs and hijackers with box cutters? There are crazy people in the world with weapons and are too eager to use them, one of them is sitting in the White House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 apu, our country has its flaws yes, but how is having a great military bad??? i want peace but it just really isnt possible with some of the crazy people in the world with weapons. I never said having a great military is bad. I said that the arms race is bad. There is no more Soviet 'Evil Empire' for us to fight anymore. No justification for the Star Wars program. Do you think that Star Wars will stop suitcase bombs and hijackers with box cutters? There are crazy people in the world with weapons and are too eager to use them, one of them is sitting in the White House. no but could prevent a nuke. the star wars is very capaple of acheiving. The world use to be flat remeber o yea and who said you couldnt ever split an atom. never say never with technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 no but could prevent a nuke. the star wars is very capaple of acheiving. The world use to be flat remeber o yea and who said you couldnt ever split an atom. never say never with technology. So you justify the spending of $100 million per test, plus all the technology that goes into it while there are people starving in the streets? 10 Nobel prize winning physicists have said that it is an impossibility for it to work correctly. I'd rather listen to the experts than the military industrial complex who just wants to line their own fat pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 apu, our country has its flaws yes, but how is having a great military bad??? i want peace but it just really isnt possible with some of the crazy people in the world with weapons. I never said having a great military is bad. I said that the arms race is bad. There is no more Soviet 'Evil Empire' for us to fight anymore. No justification for the Star Wars program. Do you think that Star Wars will stop suitcase bombs and hijackers with box cutters? There are crazy people in the world with weapons and are too eager to use them, one of them is sitting in the White House. so again you are saying sit back and let suddan do what he wants with his people when we are responsible for puting him there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 so again you are saying sit back and let suddan do what he wants with his people when we are responsible for puting him there? We let much worse human rights abusers go off on their merry way (i.e. Colombia) ::see other post about Colombia I wrote for more details:: But we give Colombia so much aid yet they abuse the most human rights. Why don't we invade them? Why aren't they on the government's anti-terror plan? We're going after Iraq because they can't fight back and they have oil. We continue to support ruthless dictators. The cost of this immoral, unjust and illegal war does not justify the end of ousting Saddam. The $80 billion cost, the lives of all that died, the trauma of families, rebuilding the infrastructure of a nation that has had so many people die at the hands of UN Sanctions and US bombing raids the past 12 years....what happens down the road when they democratically elect a person who embodies hatred of the US for all the destruction it has wrought on the country? Do we go in and topple him like we did to Allende in Chile when he was democratically elected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 so again you are saying sit back and let suddan do what he wants with his people when we are responsible for puting him there? We let much worse human rights abusers go off on their merry way (i.e. Colombia) ::see other post about Colombia I wrote for more details:: But we give Colombia so much aid yet they abuse the most human rights. Why don't we invade them? Why aren't they on the government's anti-terror plan? We're going after Iraq because they can't fight back and they have oil. We continue to support ruthless dictators. The cost of this immoral, unjust and illegal war does not justify the end of ousting Saddam. The $80 billion cost, the lives of all that died, the trauma of families, rebuilding the infrastructure of a nation that has had so many people die at the hands of UN Sanctions and US bombing raids the past 12 years....what happens down the road when they democratically elect a person who embodies hatred of the US for all the destruction it has wrought on the country? Do we go in and topple him like we did to Allende in Chile when he was democratically elected? apu i have lost so much respect for you during this debates. here you are saying that peace is the answer. im still waiting for even 1 idea that might work that doesnt involve violence, and it seems you have no compasion for people dieing because we put someone in charge being anti-american(not calling you one) is fine, has long has you treat your people with respect, and show you are trying. and regarding columbia the government is not perfect, but it is trying and it is hard to get aheaad when you have big drug warlords, and gangs running rampant in your city that is why they are getting so much aid, i would like to see some sort of evidence of these things columbia government is doin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 apu i have lost so much respect for you during this debates. here you are saying that peace is the answer. im still waiting for even 1 idea that might work that doesnt involve violence, and it seems you have no compasion for people dieing because we put someone in charge being anti-american(not calling you one) is fine, has long has you treat your people with respect, and show you are trying. and regarding columbia the government is not perfect, but it is trying and it is hard to get aheaad when you have big drug warlords, and gangs running rampant in your city that is why they are getting so much aid, i would like to see some sort of evidence of these things columbia government is doin Marino Cordoba and his organization for Displaced Afro-Colombians. How's that for proof. I had the honor of meeting him. He and a lot of the people in that organization lived in Colombia. He told stories of nearly his entire village being slaughtered by the paramilitaries (children and all) So, he was also targeted by the paramilitaries. He fled to the US and got in. It's a national organization, I am sure you can find more information on it. I'd give you more but I am at home now and left a lot of my research back at my place in Urbana for spring break. The drugs are being run by General Uribe and his paramilitary death squads too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 apu i have lost so much respect for you during this debates. here you are saying that peace is the answer. im still waiting for even 1 idea that might work that doesnt involve violence, and it seems you have no compasion for people dieing because we put someone in charge being anti-american(not calling you one) is fine, has long has you treat your people with respect, and show you are trying. and regarding columbia the government is not perfect, but it is trying and it is hard to get aheaad when you have big drug warlords, and gangs running rampant in your city that is why they are getting so much aid, i would like to see some sort of evidence of these things columbia government is doin Marino Cordoba and his organization for Displaced Afro-Colombians. How's that for proof. I had the honor of meeting him. He and a lot of the people in that organization lived in Colombia. He told stories of nearly his entire village being slaughtered by the paramilitaries (children and all) So, he was also targeted by the paramilitaries. He fled to the US and got in. It's a national organization, I am sure you can find more information on it. I'd give you more but I am at home now and left a lot of my research back at my place in Urbana for spring break. The drugs are being run by General Uribe and his paramilitary death squads too. Well we are probally giving them aid because it is goin to the people, in iraq the aid goes to suddan. And because columbia is a mess we should let suddan kill more people is that what you are saying???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Well we are probally giving them aid because it is goin to the people, in iraq the aid goes to suddan. And because columbia is a mess we should let suddan kill more people is that what you are saying???? The aid is mostly weapons and military tech. I'm just saying that we should shut off the $ faucet to Colombia too if we are serious about stopping human rights violations and we should go in and overthrow every government that is harming people (what about the US and their abuses to prisoners that have been found to be innocent? isn't that harming people) US intelligence officials were quoted in the Wall Street Journal that they were taking suspects over to countries where they didn't have Miranda rights so they could "pistol whip" (i.e. torture) information out of them. With the passage of PATRIOT II...anybody deemed "Subversive to the state" can be deported....Who is to say what subversive is? Protests? Boycotts? Sit-ins? An appeal to emotion by Bush is the last resort for his propaganda machine because he couldn't get the world to go to war any other way because he didn't have the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Well we are probally giving them aid because it is goin to the people, in iraq the aid goes to suddan. And because columbia is a mess we should let suddan kill more people is that what you are saying???? The aid is mostly weapons and military tech. I'm just saying that we should shut off the $ faucet to Colombia too if we are serious about stopping human rights violations and we should go in and overthrow every government that is harming people (what about the US and their abuses to prisoners that have been found to be innocent? isn't that harming people) alright you are finally seeing it from my side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Well we are probally giving them aid because it is goin to the people, in iraq the aid goes to suddan. And because columbia is a mess we should let suddan kill more people is that what you are saying???? The aid is mostly weapons and military tech. I'm just saying that we should shut off the $ faucet to Colombia too if we are serious about stopping human rights violations and we should go in and overthrow every government that is harming people (what about the US and their abuses to prisoners that have been found to be innocent? isn't that harming people) US intelligence officials were quoted in the Wall Street Journal that they were taking suspects over to countries where they didn't have Miranda rights so they could "pistol whip" (i.e. torture) information out of them. With the passage of PATRIOT II...anybody deemed "Subversive to the state" can be deported....Who is to say what subversive is? Protests? Boycotts? Sit-ins? An appeal to emotion by Bush is the last resort for his propaganda machine because he couldn't get the world to go to war any other way because he didn't have the facts. well we need info from them and you are not gonna get it from them by being nice(not saying it is the way to go) but when thousands of lives depend on it you have to do what you have to do. We are not killing them and not even coming close to killing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Well we are probally giving them aid because it is goin to the people, in iraq the aid goes to suddan. And because columbia is a mess we should let suddan kill more people is that what you are saying???? The aid is mostly weapons and military tech. I'm just saying that we should shut off the $ faucet to Colombia too if we are serious about stopping human rights violations and we should go in and overthrow every government that is harming people (what about the US and their abuses to prisoners that have been found to be innocent? isn't that harming people) US intelligence officials were quoted in the Wall Street Journal that they were taking suspects over to countries where they didn't have Miranda rights so they could "pistol whip" (i.e. torture) information out of them. With the passage of PATRIOT II...anybody deemed "Subversive to the state" can be deported....Who is to say what subversive is? Protests? Boycotts? Sit-ins? An appeal to emotion by Bush is the last resort for his propaganda machine because he couldn't get the world to go to war any other way because he didn't have the facts. well we need info from them and you are not gonna get it from them by being nice(not saying it is the way to go) but when thousands of lives depend on it you have to do what you have to do. We are not killing them and not even coming close to killing them. When apu says the anyone "Subversive to the state" can be deported, he's saying that right now it's suspected Muslim extremists. Next time it could be college age anti war protesters, or White Sox fans, or whoever. Remember lessons learned in the past, and I am in no way comparing our Gov't to Hitler here, but in pre-war Germany, he went after the homosexuals, then eventually the Jews. When he started removing homosexuals, nobody complained, eventually when he came for the last ones on his list, there was no one to complain to. Just keep your eyes open for attempts to subvert your constitutional rights, and scream like hell when you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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