Rex Kickass Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 John Bugay: Christians should be alarmed by Bush If you're a conservative Christian, and you're still undecided, please consider that evangelical Christians who hope to call this country to a higher moral standard are on the verge of undermining their own legitimacy. I am a Christian, and I am alarmed. One of the values we hold most dearly is "truth." It is a foundational value, upon which all other values rest. If we don't have truth, we have built our house on shifting sand. When President Clinton looked into the camera and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman," we discerned what he was saying and were justifiably outraged. Just a few years later, President Bush looked the world in the eye and said there was "clear evidence" of peril in Iraq, the result of which "could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." Even then, the evidence was not so clear at all. And yet President Bush invoked this false image, intending to frighten people into going to war. Clinton's untruth brought scorn and derision only upon himself. But Bush's untruth plunged this nation into an unnecessary war, killing thousands of innocents and costing all of us the good will of people and governments around the world. Who will ever trust this president again? The Bush administration is so far from deserving our trust this year that one conservative, writing for the Web site LewRockwell.com, calls this administration "The Truth Killers." President Bush kills the truth either because he misunderstands it, or because he deliberately misleads. When John Kerry says he wants to wage a war on terror that is sensitive to the needs of our allies, President Bush's translation is that Kerry wants to be sensitive to terrorists. Christians who applaud this statement only heap judgment upon themselves. When Kerry says he will make certain that his foreign policies will meet a global test for legitimacy, the Bush translation is that Kerry "wants to subject the defense of this country to the approval of other nations." Again, not true. The cornerstone message of the Bush campaign, concerning the $87 billion Iraq appropriation vote, would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Most U.S. senators voted against that same appropriation before they voted for it. President Bush has repeatedly used the fact that Kerry did virtually the same thing to portray him as indecisive and weak. Republican Christians, who evidently don't know how the Senate works, are moved by this shallow characterization President Bush has governed and gone to war through policies that deliberately suppress the truth. Christians who support a president who engages in this kind of subterfuge have already judged themselves guilty of the very thing they ought to stand against. John Kerry may not support all the things that evangelical Christians would support. But his testimony in 1971 focused on holding the leaders of his day accountable for a misbegotten war, another truth that has been suppressed, and he is doing the same thing today. He deserves an honest look from honest Christians, and I intend to vote for him on Nov. 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 That guy's a friggin' false prophet. John Kerry's down with OPP-ression of unbabies and aligns himself with people who hate Christianity. (the music and movie industry) pathetic example of a guy who thinks with a worldly mind and claims to be a christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 I'm starting to think Sox4Life is actually Kirk Cameron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I'm starting to think Sox4Life is actually Kirk Cameron. I clicked guilty for the first three comandments, and my computer froze... God smote my computer damnit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Just when you're convinced every "Christian" has excrement for brains, a John Bugay comes out and gives you hope. Then just as quickly, the stones being flung at the "false prophet" go whizzing over your head and you get right back to believing that earlier assessment. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Kirk Cameron just told me I was going to hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I'm starting to think Sox4Life is actually Kirk Cameron. Wow, next to old Kirk, NewPA is downright upbeat. OK, back to what I seem to do best - pissing off the Big G... who seems a petty and vindictive sonovab**** if one cared to take the Cameron/Comfort view of things with a straight face. The one thing I have going for me though is I only bombed out on 8 of 10 Commandments on that little quiz. That's at least one better than the current President, who as good as murdered everybody his lies en route to Iraq have seen killed. I mean come on, if Gawd is going to play hardball and say lust is adultery, then I sure as heck believe that sending people to kill and be killed based on bulls*** and lies isn't going to score many points on the old Heavenly Ledger. But that's just me. Being a non-Christian, I find it somewhat hard to work up to out and out hipocrasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 If possible, throw on an AC/DC album and grab a cold one before you read the following passage. Can you see your predicament? You are guilty of sinning against God Himself, and, because you have a conscience, (con-with, science-knowledge) you have sinned "with knowledge." Isn't it true that every time you lied, stole, or lusted, etc., you knew it was wrong? Does the fact that you have sinned against God scare you? It should. You have actually angered Him by your sin. The Bible says His wrath abides on you, that you are an "enemy of God in your mind through wicked works." Perhaps you think God is good and because of his goodness He will overlook your sins? But if you knew of a human judge who turned a blind eye to the crimes of a guilty rapist... would you describe him as a "good" judge? No. That would be a "corrupt" judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 People should've been running for this hills when Bush said "God speaks through me" July 9, 2004 .. scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 People should've been running for this hills when Bush said "God speaks through me" July 9, 2004 .. scary yeah, and John Kerry saying that "faith without works is dead" makes us feel all warm and fuzzy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Wow, next to old Kirk, NewPA is downright upbeat. OK, back to what I seem to do best - pissing off the Big G... who seems a petty and vindictive sonovab**** if one cared to take the Cameron/Comfort view of things with a straight face. The one thing I have going for me though is I only bombed out on 8 of 10 Commandments on that little quiz. That's at least one better than the current President, who as good as murdered everybody his lies en route to Iraq have seen killed. I mean come on, if Gawd is going to play hardball and say lust is adultery, then I sure as heck believe that sending people to kill and be killed based on bulls*** and lies isn't going to score many points on the old Heavenly Ledger. But that's just me. Being a non-Christian, I find it somewhat hard to work up to out and out hipocrasy. you can really thank Cwsox for the evolution of PA... now THAT guy's a false prophet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 That Kirk Cameron site is HILARIOUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Just when you're convinced every "Christian" has excrement for brains, a John Bugay comes out and gives you hope. Then just as quickly, the stones being flung at the "false prophet" go whizzing over your head and you get right back to believing that earlier assessment. :puke enlighten me to what about the "newpa" bothers you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 enlighten me to what about the "newpa" bothers you... Let's just say I hope it ends up like the whole New Coke/Coke Classic fiasco, and in the end NewPA just kind of fades away and we all get to enjou PA Classic again. Everybody has to find their own way. But having lost a couple of good friends when the way became The Way.... My hope remains that they one day become Unborn Again and start thinking for themselves once more, but as the years pass I think it is less and less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 you can really thank Cwsox for the evolution of PA... now THAT guy's a false prophet... OK, your turn to enlighten me, my Brother. Does cw's conviction that one can be saved by grace, and not by having to fawn over His Petty-Vengefulness, or having to offer it all up to Him? The view of a Divine Agent as being all merciful.... IF... if you accept that you are crap and will always be crap but if you fawn all over Him then maybe the Kingdom can be yours.... it's a crock. It's all the worst attributes of humanity wrapped in a foreshortened version of divinity. Gawd is gonna have a hissy fit if a person does phenomenally good deeds here on earth but doesn't find the Way through Him? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Let's just say I hope it ends up like the whole New Coke/Coke Classic fiasco, and in the end NewPA just kind of fades away and we all get to enjou PA Classic again. Everybody has to find their own way. But having lost a couple of good friends when the way became The Way.... My hope remains that they one day become Unborn Again and start thinking for themselves once more, but as the years pass I think it is less and less likely. I'll still be "born again", because Classic PA was the same way... what I'll admit is that Politics drive me friggin' insane, and that's a primary stressor in my life. I get crazy over lies on both sides, but I suppose I'm just sick of seeing the left have their thumbs on the scales and no one calling them on it. "I have a plan...I would have done things better..." That's not worth changing for, and I suppose that's why I'm so friggin' riled up. As for all this church talk and false prophet stuff, I'm mostly serious and mostly joking. My brother is in y'alls camp, but I still love him and talk to him 3-4 times a week. So there's definitely no reason that once this thing is over, we can all meet up at Benigan's for din din. by the way Jim, I don't think your scientific explanations for life and creation are 100% exclusive from my faith. I have no idea how things were created, but I have an idea about why and by whom. We're kinda on opposite sides of that answer, really. Once again, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with Christian friends being "lost" to the faith. It doesn't have to be that way here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASHWOUND Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 yeah, and John Kerry saying that "faith without works is dead" makes us feel all warm and fuzzy... You're kidding right??? We always b**** and call these athletes out when their thanking "god" But when the president says god SPEAKS through him that's not creepy??? If Sosa said it we'd be jumping all over his ass making reservations for him to the looney house Thats fact With Bush you are lead to believe that his religious faith is the primary driver of his policies... It's ok to have faith and all that, but speaking to god and god speaking through you is overthetop creepy.. With Kerry, he's willing to put science first, religion second. With Bush, he puts religion first, second, and third..science???That's way down the list That's my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 You're kidding right??? We always b**** and call these athletes out when their thanking "god" But when the president says god SPEAKS through him that's not creepy??? If Sosa said it we'd be jumping all over his ass making reservations for him to the looney house Thats fact With Bush you are lead to believe that his religious faith is the primary driver of his policies... It's ok to have faith and all that, but speaking to god and god speaking through you is overthetop creepy.. With Kerry, he's willing to put science first, religion second. With Bush, he puts religion first, second, and third..science???That's way down the list That's my point For those with little or no no religious or Christian education, it's easy to understand that "God speaks through me" is an ackward phrase. It's actually an unselfish wish and desire that embodies the idea that the words and actions that you or I say and do, are not simply contrived from our own limited comprehension and facilities, but that of God's Spirit, Grace and blessings. It's ok to think it's creepy, but realize it shows your lack of understanding the issue. John Kerry is trying to pander to undecided conservatives by talking about his faith and shooting guns. (because obviously those go hand in hand). My point is that his timing is a clear picture to anyone with the gift of testing the spirit (also a concept you're probably not familiar with) that he's way off in his faith. that's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Sox4Life: If George Bush went to church, and actually believed in the Culture of Life that he talks about all the time, I might believe his words are less than selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Sox4Life: If George Bush went to church, and actually believed in the Culture of Life that he talks about all the time, I might believe his words are less than selfish. show me where he hasn't been consistant with his faith? please...I'm asking in sincerity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 I believe there was a point where he was making fun of a death row inmate pleading for his life to an interviewer. If I'm not mistaken, the inmate was mentally retarded and asked for clemency from death. Personally, I believe anyone who believes in a "Culture of Life" believes that human life should be taken when only absolutely necessary. So the death penalty isn't an option in Criminal Court. Life is life, innocent or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 show me where he hasn't been consistant with his faith? please...I'm asking in sincerity. Believing that abortion is permissable in cases of rape or incest is inconsistent. If life begins at conception, then it begins when rape is involved, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I believe there was a point where he was making fun of a death row inmate pleading for his life to an interviewer. If I'm not mistaken, the inmate was mentally retarded and asked for clemency from death. Personally, I believe anyone who believes in a "Culture of Life" believes that human life should be taken when only absolutely necessary. So the death penalty isn't an option in Criminal Court. Life is life, innocent or not. where does life begin? when a baby breaths fresh air? or when the heart starts pumping? While I buy into the anti-death penalty somewhat, I know that it's not necessarily a black and white answer when it comes to death and the bible. At some point God cherishes life, but I don't know if God cherishes the entirity of a persons life. There comes a point where a person forever choses to be the enemy of God. just curious, I'm not really sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Believing that abortion is permissable in cases of rape or incest is inconsistent. If life begins at conception, then it begins when rape is involved, too. John Kerry voted against the partial birth abortion ban because it didn't have the "in cases of rape, etc, etc.." clause in it. George Bush doesn't support that clause. again, show me the inconsistency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 John Kerry voted against the partial birth abortion ban because it didn't have the "in cases of rape, etc, etc.." clause in it. George Bush doesn't support that clause. again, show me the inconsistency As you wish. From 2000, Bush states that he supports an exemption (from http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0002/15/lkl.00.html): MCCAIN: George, do you believe in the exemption in abortion, case of abortion, for rape, incest and life of the mother? BUSH: Yes, I do. I do. MCCAIN: Then, you know, it's interesting, you were talking about printed material that's mailed out. Here's one that says that George W. Bush supports the pro-life plank. The pro-life plank... BUSH: I do. MCCAIN: Yes. So in other words... BUSH: Yes... MCCAIN: ... your position is that you believe there's an exemption for rape, incest and the life of the mother, but you want the platform that you're supposed to be leading to have no exemption. BUSH: Yes, but... MCCAIN: Help me out there, will you? BUSH: I will, I will. MCCAIN: Thank you. BUSH: The platform talks about -- it doesn't talk about what specifically should be in the constitutional amendment. That's... MCCAIN: It doesn't have... BUSH: No... MCCAIN: ... the exemptions in it. BUSH: Please let me finish, John. MCCAIN: And you know that very well. BUSH: John, let me finish, let me finish. The platform speaks about a constitutional amendment. It doesn't refer to how that constitutional amendment ought to be defined. It does not... MCCAIN: If you read... BUSH: John... MCCAIN: ... the platform, it has no exceptions. BUSH: John, I think we need to keep the platform the way it is. This is a pro-life party. We need to... MCCAIN: Then, you were... BUSH: May I finish, please? MCCAIN: ... contradictory... BUSH: May I finish, please? MCCAIN: ... you were contradictory in... KING: All right. BUSH: Please. We need to be a pro-life party. We need to say, "life is precious" and that's what our platform refers to. And that's why we need to leave it the same. Now, I fully recognize good people can disagree on this issue. But the fundamental question amongst the Republicans is which one of us has got the capacity to lead our nation to understand the value of life; those of living, those yet unborn, and those elderly in America who are subject to physician-assisted suicides, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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