greg775 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 We need to acquire some difference makers, like Bill Veeck used to do somehow. The Jim Edmondses, Roger Clemenses, Larry Walkers, who come not utterly expensive, but make a difference. I'd say Beltrans, but we know that can't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I don't get how you can call them difference makes... I mean none of them do anything as one man shows. It's all about the team. I don't no about you but i'd rather have a whole team of average-above average talents (the twins) then a team with a few superstars and the rest be below average players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 Good point. But I'd like to see us sign some guys like Veeck did in the old days. I'd like to see us get a Johnny Damon. Some stud who bleeds baseball and wants to win desperately. I am not explaining myself well I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 We need to acquire some difference makers, like Bill Veeck used to do somehow. The Jim Edmondses, Roger Clemenses, Larry Walkers, who come not utterly expensive, but make a difference. I'd say Beltrans, but we know that can't happen. Those 3 are all expensive. Edomonds won't leave St. Louis, Clemens will never leave Houston and Walker is still with the Cards for another season. It's 1 thing to say we need a difference maker, it's another thing, when we've got numerous holes in our lineup, rotation and bullpen that need to be filled first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Both theories work if you get a good mix and injuries are minimal. Why not fill some holes with some of the so called difference makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Both theories work if you get a good mix and injuries are minimal. Why not fill some holes with some of the so called difference makers. Because the more money you throw at a "difference maker" is less money then you can spend on getting average/above average players to fill your holes. The problem is that the gamble doesn't always pay off. Either the star gets hurt (04' Diamondbacks) or the star performs and no one around him is decent (think AROD in Texas). If you give me a choice between either one star or 3-4 average/above average talents to fill the holes then i'd take the 3-4 every time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 i dont know what are you talking about a-rod... they had good hitters all around last year juan gonzalez and carl everett for both basicly the first half were good... palmiero was good all year round and tex, blalock, and michael young were ok last year too... its pitching that lost it for them last year and its pitching that lost if for them this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I'd like to see us get a Johnny Damon. Some stud who bleeds baseball and wants to win desperately. Damon himself wouldn't allow a trade to the Sox years ago when he was with the Royals. He chose to go to Oakland instead. Hmmm... that about a good OBP guy like Mark Loretta or a decent RF like Jose Cruz Jr? Would their teams trade them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Damon himself wouldn't allow a trade to the Sox years ago when he was with the Royals. He chose to go to Oakland instead. Hmmm... that about a good OBP guy like Mark Loretta or a decent RF like Jose Cruz Jr? Would their teams trade them? They are gonna move cruz this off-season to make room for gathright i feel. Loretta is doubtful to be traded but it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 We need to acquire some difference makers, like Bill Veeck used to do somehow. The Jim Edmondses, Roger Clemenses, Larry Walkers, who come not utterly expensive, but make a difference. I'd say Beltrans, but we know that can't happen. The sox need at least one "difference maker" for the top of the lineup [and a solid #2 hitter]. Yet this guy should be able to steal bases, get on base, bunt and hit for avg. I think this is their number one priority and will be addressed via trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 We need to acquire some difference makers, like Bill Veeck used to do somehow. The Jim Edmondses, Roger Clemenses, Larry Walkers, who come not utterly expensive, but make a difference. I'd say Beltrans, but we know that can't happen. Roger Clemenses? Plural? No, no, my friend. There is only one Rocket. I'd argue no other starting pitcher in the league has the mound presence that Roger does (outside of Schilling and Johnson of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 i'd say the red sox and cards have about 5 difference makers each. we might have 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 i'd say the red sox and cards have about 5 difference makers each. we might have 2. I'd argue that we only had one, and he was hurt for half the year. Frank Thomas is the only difference maker in the lineup right now, and defensively, we have no difference maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Damon himself wouldn't allow a trade to the Sox years ago when he was with the Royals. He chose to go to Oakland instead. Hmmm... that about a good OBP guy like Mark Loretta or a decent RF like Jose Cruz Jr? Would their teams trade them? Loretta I'll take. Jose Cruz Jr?? Pass No to damon, His OBP Sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Loretta I'll take. Jose Cruz Jr?? Pass No to damon, His OBP Sucks Damon's .380 OBP sucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Damon's .380 OBP sucks? Once in his carrer has it been good. No thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Once in his carrer has it been good. No thanks Hmm. I count three times near .380 (.380, .382, .379) and most other times, right around .350. While a .350 OBP isn't spectacular, it's still solid. And that's about the worst that you'll get from him, too (he has had worse years, but he's seemed to have developed into a pretty consistant player)... And - I dunno, maybe you weren't watching, but one specific correlation was made with Boston's success -- Damon's success. Well, at least that's what I saw. Damon got on base, Boston scored. Damon didn't get on base, Boston really didn't score... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 What is his Batting average in thsoe years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 What is his Batting average in thsoe years? In which years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 What is his Batting average in thsoe years? FWIW, Damon has batted above .270 in all but one year - and in that year, he hit .256. So, he's a pretty consistent player. I dunno if he's worth the money he's making, but I'd take him -- considering the correlation with how our offense performs and how our one and two hitters perform. (I think it's pretty fair to say our offense is one of the best in the majors when our leadoff hitters get on base, but that's a pretty general comment...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 (I think it's pretty fair to say our offense is one of the best in the majors when our leadoff hitters get on base, but that's a pretty general comment...) Offenses click when their leadoff hitters are going. That can be said about any team. If you have a guy at the top of the order setting the table for the big guns, you will score a lot of runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 he sox need at least one "difference maker" for the top of the lineup [and a solid #2 hitter]. Yet this guy should be able to steal bases, get on base, bunt and hit for avg. I think this is their number one priority and will be addressed via trade. --Good point. That one year we tried it with Lofton. Another mistake. Rock Raines was a good leadoff hitter in his day for us. I wonder if Nomar is a puss or is he a difference maker. I want some guy who can play who can kick some ass in the locker room and lead like Cave Man Damon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Evidence of our lack of difference makers: Top win shares for Sox CLee # 17 in AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 he sox need at least one "difference maker" for the top of the lineup [and a solid #2 hitter]. Yet this guy should be able to steal bases, get on base, bunt and hit for avg. I think this is their number one priority and will be addressed via trade. --Good point. That one year we tried it with Lofton. Another mistake. Rock Raines was a good leadoff hitter in his day for us. I wonder if Nomar is a puss or is he a difference maker. I want some guy who can play who can kick some ass in the locker room and lead like Cave Man Damon. I don't know how you can say that bringing in lofton was a mistake. It's not like we brought in a career .253 hitter with a career .307 obp to lead-off for us. We brought in a proven player that still had gas left in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Evidence of our lack of difference makers: Top win shares for Sox CLee # 17 in AL. I'm glad you brought up the win shares stat. (While what I'm about to post doesn't have much to say with the topic, here goes.) I tried reading Bill James' Win Shares book -- didn't get through it, but I got the general idea of it. IMHO, it's one of the better ways in evaluating a player. IIRC, they factor in all of the park factors, AL/NL factors, fielding, hitting, baserunning - everything, and put it into one stat. It also puts pitchers and hitters on an even field for evaluation. While I don't think stats are the total basis of player evaluation, they are a pretty big part of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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