October Surprise?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

DOVER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry railed against "the unbelievable blindness, stubbornness, [and] arrogance" of the Bush administration Monday following reports that 380 tons of explosives are missing in Iraq.

 

......and in other news.........

 

 

In Washington, Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry's campaign said the Bush administration "must answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq."

 

"How did they fail to secure ... tons of known, deadly explosives despite clear warnings from the International Atomic Energy Agency to do so?" senior Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart (search) said in a statement.

 

 

.......but wait............

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/...ives/index.html

 

 

Looks like Kerry, in his quickness to find something to pin to Bush, rushed in before he had all the facts. Hasn't the left learned anything from Dan Rather? This will backfire on Kerry.

[DBAHO]

Sometimes I'm glad I don't have to vote in this election of yours. Ours was bad enough.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136572,00.html

 

 

This is a very reasoned asessment of the situation with loose weapons in Iraq. Based on personal experience this is very accurate as well. During my stay in what is now the "Green Zone" in Baghdad my unit found enough weapons, ammunition, explosives, land mines and other assorted military equipment in an area of 5 square miles to fill up a storage facility that was about the size of a football field and 2 stories tall.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Ohh Nuke how does it feel to eat up the presidents gullable pie.

He was wrong so he did what he always does. HE LIES!

Your in the military you should of seen through him a long time ago.

I don't care how much spin they put on it on Bush tries to cover it up. I want that arrogant asshole gone.

[southsider2k5]

Ohh Nuke how does it feel to eat up the presidents gullable pie.

He was wrong so he did what he always does. HE LIES!

Your in the military you should of seen through him a long time ago.

I don't care how much spin they put on it on Bush tries to cover it up. I want that arrogant asshole gone.

And the irony is that you have completely put on blinders to the possibility you are falling from crap from the other side of the aisle.

[Texsox]

Ohh Nuke how does it feel to eat up the presidents gullable pie.

He was wrong so he did what he always does. HE LIES!

Your in the military you should of seen through him a long time ago.

I don't care how much spin they put on it on Bush tries to cover it up. I want that arrogant asshole gone.

With all the lies the military tells, it's hard for them to tell the truth. For PR purposes they toss medals on undeserving soldiers and try and peddle them as heroes or something. Shameful but typical from right wing wacko jobs.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Your right. I closed my mind to that lying asshole a long time ago.

So Kerry pounced a little too soon. How is the hell is that an excuse for going to war without these damn explosives accounted for.

What pisses me off is that we attacked Iraq while they kinda sorta MIGHT have had WMD's if they lifted the sanctions on Saddam. However at the same time Iran advances their nuclear program and NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.

I don't know what a President Kerry would do. Hell to be honest I don't even like John Kerry that much. But he can't be near as damaging to the future of America then Bush. At least the Republicans will hold congress and they cancel each other out.

[southsider2k5]

Your right. I closed my mind to that lying asshole a long time ago.

So Kerry pounced a little too soon. How is the hell is that an excuse for going to war without these damn explosives accounted for.

What pisses me off is that we attacked Iraq while they kinda sorta MIGHT have had WMD's if they lifted the sanctions on Saddam. However at the same time Iran advances their nuclear program and NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.

I don't know what a President Kerry would do. Hell to be honest I don't even like John Kerry that much. But he can't be near as damaging to the future of America then Bush. At least the Republicans will hold congress and they cancel each other out.

Exactly how does no one give a damn about Iran? The US, the UN, the EU, and even Israel are all doing everything they can to try to stop Iran from converting nuclear waste into weapons grade material.

 

I'm not sure exactly whatelse you want them to do. If they aren't going to cooperate, which they haven't show any signs of, what exactly should the US do?

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Well I'd sure as hell much rather be at war with Iran then Iraq.

The point is that Bush didn't want a diplomatic solution to Iraq he just wanted to run out and clean up his Daddies mess. Of course after he invaded two counties and didn't finish either one then it would be stupid for him to go after a third. Especially with our military in the state it's in.

For a war on terror we really seemed to have missed the point. We managed to let the head of the terrorists slip through our fingers yet were able to take a regime that didn't pose a threat at the time and give the middle eastern extremist's more reason to hate us.

When in the hell are we going to learn from our mistakes and take our history classes seriously?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Yeah, the Jessica Lynch story...giving them free speech yet shutting down newspapers...

 

The military there has such a history of telling the truth.

[Rex Kickass]

So let me get this straight.

 

380 tons of weaponry is missing. We knew where it was before the invasion. A convoy of approximately 40 big trucks would have to transport the mass out of the arms dump. With all the surveillance of military action over Iraq, are you telling me that the US didn't find it to be a priority to monitor to movements around the largest ammo dump north of Baghdad before the invasion?

 

CBS interviewed the commander of the first unit into the area:

The commander of the first unit into the area told CBS he did not search it for explosives or secure it from looters. "We were still in a fight," he said. "our focus was killing bad guys." He added he would have needed four times more troops to search and secure all the ammo dumps he came across.

 

Drudge Report first reported that NBC News had something on video that proved NY Times wrong. Here's Jim Micklaszewski's report on MSNBC today.

 

Following up on that story from last night, military officials tell NBC News that on April 10, 2003, when the Second Brigade of the 101st Airborne entered the Al QaQaa weapons facility, south of Baghdad, that those troops were actually on their way to Baghdad, that they were not actively involved in the search for any weapons, including the high explosives, HMX and RDX. The troops did observe stock piles of conventional weapons but no HMX or RDX. And because the Al Qaqaa facility is so huge, it's not clear that those troops from the 101st were actually anywhere near the bunkers that reportedly contained the HMX and RDX. Three months earlier, during an inspection of the Al Qaqaa compound, the International Atomic Energy Agency secured and sealed 350 metric tons of HMX and RDX. Then in March, shortly before the war began, the I.A.E.A. conducted another inspection and found that the HMX stockpile was still intact and still under seal. But inspectors were unable to inspect the RDX stockpile and could not verify that the RDX was still at the compound.

Pentagon officials say elements of the 101st airborne did conduct a thorough search of several facilities around the Al QaQaa compound for several weeks during the month of April in search of WMD. They found no WMD. And Pentagon officials say it's not clear at that time whether those other elements of the 101st actually searched the Al QaQaa compound.

 

Now, Pentagon officials say U.S. troops and members of the Iraq Survey Group did arrive at the Al QaQaa compound on May 27. And when they did, they found no HMX or RDX or any other weapons under seal at the time. Now, the Iraqi government is officially said that the high explosives were stolen by looters. Pentagon officials claim it's possible -- they're not sure, they say, but it's possible that Saddam Hussein himself ordered that these high explosives be removed and hidden before the war. What is clear is that the 350 metric tons of high explosives are still missing, and that the U.S. or Iraqi governments or international inspectors, for that matter, cannot say with any certainty where they are today.

 

Here's an MSNBC interview earlier today with a producer on the scene when the alleged video was shot.

 

Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. Um, as a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. Almost, we stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

 

AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

 

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was – at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

 

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

 

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

 

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So let me get this straight.

 

380 tons of weaponry is missing. We knew where it was before the invasion. A convoy of approximately 40 big trucks would have to transport the mass out of the arms dump. With all the surveillance of military action over Iraq, are you telling me that the US didn't find it to be a priority to monitor to movements around the largest ammo dump north of Baghdad before the invasion?

 

CBS interviewed the commander of the first unit into the area:

 

 

Drudge Report first reported that NBC News had something on video that proved NY Times wrong. Here's Jim Micklaszewski's report on MSNBC today.

 

 

 

Here's an MSNBC interview earlier today with a producer on the scene when the alleged video was shot.

According to a Fox News report the IAEA reported to the U.N. that the Iraqi's were moving explosives out of the facility in February of '03 and when the 101st Airborne showed up there were no IAEA seals present on the bunkers. After viewing a file picture of how those bunkers were secured I nearly busted a gut laughing. They were "secured" with a padlock and a rail seal. What that means is that anyone with a pair of bolt cutters could walk in there and take whatever they wanted.

 

 

Bottom line is that with the vastness of Saddam's arsenal it was utterly impossible to secure it all in a timely fashion. Its not like he had the stuff in neat little piles on the side of the road waiting to be picked up. So far we've secured or destroyed 400,000 tons of military ordinance and John Kerry is trying to make a campaign issue out of a number which amounts to less than 1 tenth of 1% of what we've taken care of. Add to that the fact that it was already gone when we got there.

 

Just goes to show how petty John Kerry's criticisms are getting. As I said earlier, if this story impacts anyone negatively it will be Kerry himself.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Nuke, MSNBC and NBC are retreating on their claims saying they are not entirely sure it wasn't there when they got there. But nice try at misrepresenting things.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, MSNBC and NBC are retreating on their claims saying they are not entirely sure it wasn't there when they got there.  But nice try at misrepresenting things.

I kinda doubt that but the more that comes out about this story the stupider John Kerry looks for trying to make an issue of this.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933

 

Timing of search still up in the air according to that NBC article.

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...d=540&ncid=1480

 

NBC embedded reporter on the scene at the time said he saw no explosives search going down.

[beck72]

First line of defense for this admin---deny, deny, deny, [it wasn't our fault, the weapons weren't there]

 

Next line of defense---attack, attack, attack [the news organ's, Kerry for bringing up this topic-How dare they point out the fact that Iraqi's have hundreds of tons of explosives to kill Americans with!! The unmitigated gall!!]

 

Next line of defense [which will be coming probably as soon as today]--distract, distract, distract--change the subject when the facts get in the way of a good story [trot out something new, like a terror warning]

[Rex Kickass]

This was one of the largest amunition dumps in Iraq, and it wasn't a priority to secure it. Even when it was being looted as we arrived there.

 

Never mind the fact that a spot check one week before the invasion showed the seals still in place. But hey, let's play devil's advocate.

 

So even if it wasn't there when we got there, the administration admitted yesterday, it never found out about this until last week.

 

So instead of incompetence, it's just plain ignorance.

 

That gives me sooo much more confidence in the Bush administration.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Ohh Nuke how does it feel to eat up the presidents gullable pie.

He was wrong so he did what he always does. HE LIES!

Your in the military you should of seen through him a long time ago.

I don't care how much spin they put on it on Bush tries to cover it up. I want that arrogant asshole gone.

how old are you? no, seriously, you write like a 15 year old...

 

call us in 3 years when you can vote. :headshake

[sox4lifeinPA]

This was one of the largest amunition dumps in Iraq, and it wasn't a priority to secure it. Even when it was being looted as we arrived there.

 

Never mind the fact that a spot check one week before the invasion showed the seals still in place. But hey, let's play devil's advocate.

 

So even if it wasn't there when we got there, the administration admitted yesterday, it never found out about this until last week.

 

So instead of incompetence, it's just plain ignorance.

 

That gives me sooo much more confidence in the Bush administration.

once again, if our commie socialist "friends" in Europe would have been on the ground with us, instead of counting their Saddam bucks, this might be a none-issue.

 

The same people that are "outraged" at how 300 tons of munitions could be lost are the same people that say "see, there weren't any wmds here! you liar!!"

 

 

pathetic

[jasonxctf]

there was an interesting program on WTTW Nightline last nite about Donald Rumsfeld which was somewhat interesting. Did anyone catch it?

 

It pointed out how so many military people that were put into power under Reagan and Bush 41 tried to work with Colin Powell and serve as the voice of reason before the war began but it was Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld that stopped them. Apparently Bush 43 listened to them but in the end was pursuaded by Cheney.

 

Maybe more of the blame on the constant failures in Iraq should be placed on the shoulders of Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld rather than all on Bush?

[sox4lifeinPA]

there was an interesting program on WTTW Nightline last nite about Donald Rumsfeld which was somewhat interesting. Did anyone catch it?

 

It pointed out how so many military people that were put into power under Reagan and Bush 41 tried to work with Colin Powell and serve as the voice of reason before the war began but it was Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld that stopped them. Apparently Bush 43 listened to them but in the end was pursuaded by Cheney.

 

Maybe more of the blame on the constant failures in Iraq should be placed on the shoulders of Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld rather than all on Bush?

it's widely known that the whole staff is gonna be on the shake down when Bush returns to office. I would imagine the next four years are going to be different than the last.

 

bye bye Rumsfield, wolfowitz, powell, etc...

[Rex Kickass]

once again, if our commie socialist "friends" in Europe would have been on the ground with us, instead of counting their Saddam bucks, this might be a none-issue.

 

The same people that are "outraged" at how 300 tons of munitions could be lost are the same people that say "see, there weren't any wmds here! you liar!!"

 

 

pathetic

1 pound of this same material blew up the 747 over Lockerbie Scotland.

 

We lost 760,000 pounds of it. And we knew it was there. How is it acceptable to search dog food factories for WMD and not protect the weaponry we already knew was there?

[jasonxctf]

I really think Powell is a stand-up guy. I would like to see Kerry extend an offer to him for his administration and see how the Powell Doctrine would work under a Democratic Administration. He's doctrine seems to be similar to that of Kerry's.

[Steff]

I really think Powell is a stand-up guy. I would like to see Kerry extend an offer to him for his administration and see how the Powell Doctrine would work under a Democratic Administration. He's doctrine seems to be similar to that of Kerry's.

I don't have a lot of respect for a guy who puts his unqualified son first in line for head of anything.. even if it's just the silly old FCC.

[FlaSoxxJim]

bye bye Rumsfield, wolfowitz....

Bush and, more importantly, Cheney and Rove, jettisoning some of the PNAC heart of darkness? Only if they felt some incredible pressure from to do so I'd assume.