bjm676 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Foulke to White Sox: You gave up on me October 26, 2004 BY CHRIS DE LUCA STAFF REPORTER ST. LOUIS -- It's funny how closer Keith Foulke says ''Sox'' and you know he doesn't mean the team from Boston. That club -- the one running away with the World Series -- he calls them the Red Sox. The team from the South Side -- the one whose World Series title drought is one year longer than Boston's fabled dry spell -- is still firmly on his mind. This is what happens when you spend your formative years on the South Side -- there can be only one Sox. And here's the postcard message this postseason's most dazzling reliever is sending to his former team. ''They gave up on me,'' Foulke said matter-of-factly of the White Sox, ''and that's their mistake.'' Don't they know it. Foulke won't admit it, but his next-door neighbor in the Red Sox' clubhouse -- former White Sox left-hander Alan Embree -- knows the truth. ''He wanted to be a White Sox pitcher to this day,'' Embree said. ''He didn't want to leave. They made a big mistake. But I'm glad they did, otherwise, he wouldn't be here.'' Foulke, 32, outdid October legend Mariano Rivera in the American League Championship Series. He threw 100 pitches over a grueling three-game span against the Yankees in the ALCS and did what the celebrated Rivera couldn't -- hold his opponents scoreless. He was brilliant in the first two games of the World Series, retiring all four St. Louis Cardinals he faced in Game 2 to stretch his scoreless-inning streak to 12 in nine games this postseason. All this from a closer the White Sox discarded in 2002, after then-manager Jerry Manuel believed Foulke's trademark changeup wasn't enough to be a dominant force in the ninth inning. Manuel always tried to hide Foulke in spring training, thinking if opponents saw too much of the right-hander in exhibition games, they would solve that changeup. By the spring of 2002, it was clear Manuel was looking beyond Foulke, who was having his struggles in the Cactus League. With Manuel growing impatient, did Foulke ever lose confidence? ''No,'' he said, shaking his head. ''I knew it was a funk. It was one of those things that I wasn't throwing well, just like this spring training I wasn't throwing well. But I knew I could pitch in this league, and I just had to work on some things.'' Just not on the White Sox' dime. A two-year extension Foulke signed before the 2002 season guaranteed him a $6 million salary in 2003. If he wasn't their closer, the Sox weren't going to pay $6 million for a middle reliever. In early June 2002, Foulke was finally bumped out of the closer's job. Antonio Osuna -- ugh -- was tabbed to fill the role until Damaso Marte was ready to take over. The White Sox are still waiting for Marte to take over. Shingo Takatsu has the closer's role now, but there are many of the same rumblings that he is a reliever relying on a gimmick. ''Their ideal closer throws 97 mph,'' Embree said, ''and Keith didn't fit that mold.'' The White Sox thought they found their ideal closer in Billy Koch, so they dealt Foulke and catcher Mark Johnson to the Oakland Athletics on Dec. 3, 2002, for Koch and two players to be named (left-hander Neal Cotts and outfielder Daylan Holt). Koch turned out to be a disaster. He left his 97 mph fastball in Oakland and never regained his confidence. He went 5-5 with a 5.77 ERA and 11 saves in 2003. That season, Foulke went 9-1 with a 2.08 ERA and 43 saves for the A's, becoming an All-Star for the first time -- and working a 1-2-3 inning at U.S. Cellular Field. Any sense of satisfaction? ''My satisfaction is being right here, right now,'' he said of his first World Series. ''I don't go out to prove them wrong. I go out to try to succeed for myself and for my team. I really don't think about them anymore.'' Not ever? ''Every once in a while I think back to those days with the Sox, but I don't dwell on the past,'' he said. ''I feel they made a huge mistake for that organization. But I'm not going to dwell on that. I went out and pitched for Oakland last year, and I will pitch for the Red Sox for the next few years.'' General manager Ken Williams was surprised Foulke even has the White Sox on his mind these days. ''He has done well -- good for him. So don't worry about the White Sox,'' Williams said Monday night. ''I don't understand why a guy who is in the World Series and has a very good chance of winning the World Series would even be concerned about something that happened two years ago. I hate that. I'm rooting for him.'' For their part, the Red Sox, who snatched Foulke off the free-agent market, never viewed his changeup as a gimmick pitch that would become a liability. ''It's a huge, huge weapon for us,'' manager Terry Francona said. ''Knowing that Foulke can do so much, it takes away the lefty-righty thing because his changeup is so effective against left-handers.'' Foulke has become one of many celebrated Red Sox stars in Boston. Like his teammates, he's trying not to get caught up in the hoopla of a team trying to win a World Series for the first time since 1918. How does this compare to the White Sox' brief run to the 2000 postseason? ''That was very exciting because there were a lot of guys on that ballclub who had never been to the playoffs before,'' Foulke said. ''There was a lot of hype then and there's a lot of hype now. But I've learned from that. That's why I say I'll celebrate when it's over.'' He also learned about himself during the White Sox' three-and-out playoff appearance against the Seattle Mariners. Foulke took the Game 1 loss, yielding consecutive home runs to Edgar Martinez and John Olerud in the 10th inning. In Game 3, the White Sox were eliminated when Carlos Guillen's infield single off Foulke scored Rickey Henderson for the winning run. Pitching in the Division Series last October against the Red Sox, Foulke went 0-1 with a 3.60 ERA in three games for the A's. ''I've learned from the past playoffs, when I didn't pitch so well,'' he said. ''I'm just going out there and trying not to make mistakes. My history is if I keep the ball in the park, it's tough for people to score.'' And Foulke figures to get plenty more work in this World Series. Francona isn't afraid to summon Foulke and his changeup in the seventh, eighth, ninth inning, day after day. ''I'm happy to do whatever we need,'' Foulke said. ''It might be the only time I make it to the Series. If I have to pitch until my arm falls off, that's what I'll do.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well that sucks to hear, but he wasn't right at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well that sucks to hear, but he wasn't right at the time. That's JM fault. He really blew it on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 General manager Ken Williams was surprised Foulke even has the White Sox on his mind these days. ''He has done well -- good for him. So don't worry about the White Sox,'' Williams said Monday night. ''I don't understand why a guy who is in the World Series and has a very good chance of winning the World Series would even be concerned about something that happened two years ago. I hate that. I'm rooting for him.'' Maybe because they asked him, idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Maybe because they asked him, idiot. Williams is likely upset this topic is (again) rehased in the media. While it was Chris DeLuca who baited him, Foulke didn't appear willing to hold back any animosity towards our organization. Do players ever leave the White Sox with good will? Well, atleast White Sox had their flamethrowing closer while Foulke continued struggling in Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Do players ever leave the White Sox with good will? Just Harold Baines. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Oh c'mon, we had Koch. What a non story. De Luca must have been bored and was really reaching at trying to find a Chicago angle in this WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Maybe because they asked him, idiot. Exactly. This quote from KW is, in my opinion, a microcosm of the mindset of the man GM'img the White Sox. A petty, buffet table flipping man who'll let his feelings get in the way of what's best for the team. "F" him and that piece of s*** he traded Foulke for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Oh c'mon, we had Koch. What a non story. De Luca must have been bored and was really reaching at trying to find a Chicago angle in this WS. Ummmmm..... there was no baseball on Monday so the paper looked for a local angle to write about for their baseball section. It maybe a non-story for you. Personally, I liked it..... knowing Foulke still harbors feelings for "the Sox" yet didn't bad mouth the Organization like KW badmouthed Foulke. And before you ask why anything wasn't written about ex-Cub players in the WS..... either the Trib or Times did a similar story on Bill Mueller last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Ummmmm..... there was no baseball on Monday so the paper looked for a local angle to write about for their baseball section. It maybe a non-story for you. Personally, I liked it..... knowing Foulke still harbors feelings for "the Sox" yet didn't bad mouth the Organization like KW badmouthed Foulke. And before you ask why anything wasn't written about ex-Cub players in the WS..... either the Trib or Times did a similar story on Bill Mueller last week. I'm glad you liked it, to each his own. How long ago did Foulke leave the Sox? It's a writer trying to stir something up, when nothing is there. It's in the past, dead issue, he should write about 2005. ...and I wasn't gonna bring the Cubs into the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 It's in the past, dead issue, he should write about 2005. There's nothing to write about though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 There's nothing to write about though Not right now anyway. I don't see an issue. There is a Sox angle with the WS.. Foulke played for the Sox.. and since leaving has had great success. I think the article was in line. JMO though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Not right now anyway. I don't see an issue. There is a Sox angle with the WS.. Foulke played for the Sox.. and since leaving has had great success. I think the article was in line. JMO though.. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Agreed I don't think it's really an issue either. All I'm saying is that if there is no story then there is no story. Don't try to create one. Based on KWs response, it sounds like someone said 'hey Kenny, did ya hear what Foulke said about the Sox'. I know he can be hot headed and fly off at the mouth at times, but it sounds like a wrtier trying to start some s***. whatever, JMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I don't think it's really an issue either. All I'm saying is that if there is no story then there is no story. Don't try to create one. Based on KWs response, it sounds like someone said 'hey Kenny, did ya hear what Foulke said about the Sox'. I know he can be hot headed and fly off at the mouth at times, but it sounds like a wrtier trying to start some s***. whatever, JMHO. Probably.. and since we're here discussing it.. he did his job well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Probably.. and since we're here discussing it.. he did his job well. ....if he wrote for a tabloid, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 ....if he wrote for a tabloid, perhaps. You mean he doesn't? The Sun-Times is pretty close to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 You mean he doesn't? The Sun-Times is pretty close to it. unfortunately, you're right, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Not right now anyway. I don't see an issue. There is a Sox angle with the WS.. Foulke played for the Sox.. and since leaving has had great success. I think the article was in line. JMO though.. I'll second that opinion. I don't think the article was unjustly critical of the Sox. I don't think Foulke really took any nasty shots at Sox. The organization gave up on him, and he said they made a mistake. I think that's pretty undeniable. I actually like the fact that he wanted to stay in Chicago. As for Williams, he just seems very defensive, and I think accusing Foulke of not caring about winning and being petty actually makes Williams and the Sox look petty. All he had to do was say they thought they made a good trade at the time and wish Foulke well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 ....if he wrote for a tabloid, perhaps. I'm not quite sure what the problem is.. obviously you don't care for the article. Why not let those of us that do, discuss it without defending why we're discussing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I'm not quite sure what the problem is.. obviously you don't care for the article. Why not let those of us that do, discuss it without defending why we're discussing it. How am I stopping anyone? Wow, my bad. Discuss, go nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How am I stopping anyone? Wow, my bad. Discuss, go nuts. I didn't say you were stopping anyone. We think it's news, you don't, but you seem to want to keep telling us it's not news to you. No big deal. But we get that you don't think it's news... all 4 times you concluded as much.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Crappy story....Bored writer trying to make something outta nothing....Keith's pitching well now, good for him....Wish he did that for the Sox in 2000 playoffs, against the Twins in '01, Yankees 02' (Think Giambi's ball is still traveling)....If the story was focusing on KW's successes and failures, no prob....The Foulke trade was his worst....OK fine....If the storyline is about the success of Keith Foulke in the 04' playoffs (and I think it was), keep it that way....Don't make it a revisionist history piece on Sox trades :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 "He has done well -- good for him. So don't worry about the White Sox,'' Williams said Monday night. ''I don't understand why a guy who is in the World Series and has a very good chance of winning the World Series would even be concerned about something that happened two years ago. I hate that. I'm rooting for him.'' Screw you Kenny. Like you don't answer all questions posed to you. What's he supposed to say, "No comment?" We blew it big time losing Foulke. He was a stud who obviously was not finished. Sounds like this one was Manuel's fault. But KW's statements here were very very childish and stoopid IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 "He has done well -- good for him. So don't worry about the White Sox,'' Williams said Monday night. ''I don't understand why a guy who is in the World Series and has a very good chance of winning the World Series would even be concerned about something that happened two years ago. I hate that. I'm rooting for him.'' Screw you Kenny. Like you don't answer all questions posed to you. What's he supposed to say, "No comment?" We blew it big time losing Foulke. He was a stud who obviously was not finished. Sounds like this one was Manuel's fault. But KW's statements here were very very childish and stoopid IMO. If foulke can speak his mind why can't Kenny?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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