CWSGuy406 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Oh please, don't get me started with zone rating and meaningless statistics like that. Orlando Cabrera and Omar Vizquel are different types of players. Orlando Cabrera is a gap machine, and someone who has 20 home run power in a park like US Cellular field. He is not an on base percentage guy. Omar Vizquel although declining is still an excellent two hole hitter who has all the intangibles down to a science. I'll say what I've said multiple times. For an extra two million dollars a year, if you have a chance to get a guy like Orlando Cabrera you go and get him. I want a team that is fielded for the park they play in. Orlando Cabrera fits that mold. I agree with you, Cabrera would hit well here. However, we need to get away from the low-OBP, good power guys. And, I do agree with you that four million per year might be a bit too much for Omar -- however, it's only a two year deal, so I don't think it should cripple us (financially) too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I sorta like the idea of signing Omar. There will be no adjustment period for the pitching he faces since he is staying in the division which is sometimes a problem for a FA. Worst case, it becomses a Steve Sax situation where he hits .250. I don't think he will fall apart on us. Also, as it was pointed out earlier, while the money may seem steep, it wouldn't be a crippling amount should an injury arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I think we can all agree that anything will be welcomed after Jose's year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Okay Einstien. Is there only a right and a wrong with you? Orlando Cabrera is a player made for certain parks, one of them being US Cellular Field. He is just as much of a leader as Vizquel is. All I am saying is this. If the White Sox are going to pay four million dollars for Vizquel, which I hope we can both agree on is overpaying, why not go the extra mile and lock up Cabrera for six over three. They have the Venezualan/Columbian connection, the guys a gap machine, and just as much of a leader as anyone in this league. EDITED for your satisfaction. I completely agree. Why go vizquel- a guy who has limited "upside" and who might never be the player he was this year. Instead, we should go with cabrera, the best defensive player in the majors, one of the best gap hitters in baseball, and an improving hitter who will get dirty(with the twins) and create some unity with the club. Also, this leadership business is BS. Vizquel is NOT a leader nor is cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 the best defensive player in the majors :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I completely agree. Why go vizquel- a guy who has limited "upside" and who might never be the player he was this year. Instead, we should go with cabrera, the best defensive player in the majors, one of the best gap hitters in baseball, and an improving hitter who will get dirty(with the twins) and create some unity with the club. Also, this leadership business is BS. Vizquel is NOT a leader nor is cabrera. What if Cabrera plays like he did with Montreal this year? It was a lot worse than Vizquel? Uribe will be able to play SS full time eventually, even if he is not ready now. I think he is ready, its just that at third and second there have been a lot of problems, and he is need there. I like Vizquel, he is relatively cheap, and a short contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 the best defensive player in the majors That post lost all credibility with that line right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 That post lost all credibility with that line right there. That' is word for word what I was gonna say. But I decided not to waste my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 That post lost all credibility with that line right there. I really dont want to argue with you guys about this but this is what i have to say. What shortstop is better? What 2b is better? What 3B is better? What of is better? The 2 anwsers that are arguable would be edmonds and rolen, thats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I really dont want to argue with you guys about this but this is what i have to say. What shortstop is better? What 2b is better? What 3B is better? What of is better? The 2 anwsers that are arguable would be edmonds and rolen, thats it. You're kidding, right? What shortstop is better? You should have said, which shortstops "aren't" better, but anyways... Miguel Tejada, Bobby Crosby, Edgar Renteria, Derek Jeter, Jack Wilson, Rafeal Furcal, Julio Lugo. Need I keep going, because there's still a lot more too... I can do the same for second basemen and third basemen too, but I figure I'll save you a little respect. BTW - the question "What of is better" - makes absolutely no sense... It would help if, at the very least, you could make sense out of your sentences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I really dont want to argue with you guys about this but this is what i have to say. What shortstop is better? What 2b is better? What 3B is better? What of is better? The 2 anwsers that are arguable would be edmonds and rolen, thats it. Consider that he's not the best defensive player on his own TEAM(Doug Mientkiewicz is probably one of the best defensive players in the majors), and then consider that the Sawks were probably one of the worst fielding teams in the majors, and I think my point is clearer. If you want me to give you a full list, I will. Guy406 did hit a bunch of them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 You're kidding, right? What shortstop is better? You should have said, which shortstops "aren't" better, but anyways... Miguel Tejada, Bobby Crosby, Edgar Renteria, Derek Jeter, Jack Wilson, Rafeal Furcal, Julio Lugo. Need I keep going, because there's still a lot more too... I can do the same for second basemen and third basemen too, but I figure I'll save you a little respect. BTW - the question "What of is better" - makes absolutely no sense... It would help if, at the very least, you could make sense out of your sentences... of=outfielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 of=outfielder Mmm... OK, thanks for clearing that up jackie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Mmm... OK, thanks for clearing that up jackie. You're quite welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I'm sorry if I'm coming late to the argument. But IMO, vizquel is probably the best fit for the Sox of the FA SS's out there. He's not the best SS. But the best fit for what the sox need now, taking into consideration factors such as price, the make up of the sox roster, etc. He comes for 2 yrs relatively cheaply [enough time to let Uribe mature, and allow Crede and Harris time to either perform or be cut loose], is a #2 hitter who hits from both sides of the plate, is an excellent bunter, high % base stealer, and is a solid veteran IF glove, [with young guys such as Crede, Harris and Uribe around him this is important], who won't hurt the team with silly mistakes. The point is other SS may have more upside, have longer careers, put up gaudier numbers, etc. Yet Vizquel fills some glaring holes for the Sox, and gives what they need from that position, with the flexibility to fix other holes for next season and the yrs ahead. He's not the only missing piece. Yet it's a very solid pickup if it turns out he signs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Chicago White Sox Updated:11/04/2004 The White Sox plan to make a two-year, $8 million offer to Cleveland free agent SS Omar Vizquel, says St. Paul Pioneer-Press. So...is this like a done deal? Is Omar just as good as ours at this point? When can something be made official/expected to be made official? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Chicago White Sox Updated:11/04/2004 The White Sox plan to make a two-year, $8 million offer to Cleveland free agent SS Omar Vizquel, says St. Paul Pioneer-Press. So...is this like a done deal? Is Omar just as good as ours at this point? When can something be made official/expected to be made official? The 12th, that is the first day free agents can be signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 The 12th, that is the first day free agents can be signed. That day is taking way to long to get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 That day is taking way to long to get here. Vizquel will be signed the exact day Stevenson loses to Maine South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Vizquel will be signed the exact day Stevenson loses to Maine South. Real funny brian, what time is warren playing this week??? I forgot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Since for some reason my memory can't reach back to last November...is the MLB like the NFL where teams sign players right after midnight, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Since for some reason my memory can't reach back to last November...is the MLB like the NFL where teams sign players right after midnight, etc... I doubt many, if any will sign when they can. I am sure some people may, especially littler named guys, but I think most will wait a little while to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Uribe will be able to play SS full time eventually, even if he is not ready now. I think he is ready, its just that at third and second there have been a lot of problems, and he is need there. I agree Uribe could start now (he did for the Rockies). Which is one reason why I don't understand signing Vizquel (at least for 8 million). Obviously the Sox don't think Uribe is ready (which seems silly -- he showed a great glove and had .800 OPS last year), or they want to use Uribe as a utilityman because of doubts at 2B and 3rd (which still seems silly, since I'd rather get a much younger Placido Palanco to play 2nd or 3rd). But anyway, since the Sox actually pay people to make these decisions, hopefully they're right and I'm not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 From HardballTimes Vizquel is a guy I've talked about as a good one-year filler, but it sounds as if at least one team has bigger plans for the 38-year-old. I've heard that the White Sox are talking about a two-year deal worth $8 million for Vizquel, which is not only extremely overpaying him, but also extremely strange when you consider they'd be setting the shortstop market by signing a 38-year-old in an offseason where teams have their pick at the position. Take it for what you will (Gleeman is a Twins fan....). But at the least I have to agree that it seems silly for the Sox to rush in to sign Vizquel. I'm worried that they'll overpay to get it done early. Williams has a reputation for being a gambler, so if money is really tight it seems like they should wait to see how the market settles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKREINSDORF Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 2 YRS/8 Mill sounds like a bit much to me. :fthecubs :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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