elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Yes.....but we also suck ass every year on the road and that can't continue to happen if we want to win this division, I love Pauly but he was a huge part of our road problem. I would have to reexamine our road record for the last few years. I am not so certain we sucked every year, but I would have to see the numbers before challenging you on that. You might be right that we haven't been a rip roaring road club, but is that Konerko's fault? Would Hudson mae us better at the expense of losing PK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Yes.....but we also suck ass every year on the road and that can't continue to happen if we want to win this division, I love Pauly but he was a huge part of our road problem. We need more carlos lee's than we do paul konerko's. I think we can all agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 i cant believe someone values konerko greater then hudson... thats what we call over valueing your favorite player...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 i cant believe someone values konerko greater then hudson... thats what we call over valueing your favorite player...... I beg to differ... I think that is being realistic and knowing your best players. Now maybe we should look at trading Crede for Hudson? I like Joe a lot also, but that makes more sense than your best slugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Would Hudson mae us better at the expense of losing PK? No doubt, think about it like this gload and huddy or pauly and grilli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 WE Would have to give up minor league talent? Hudson is not worth Paul Konerko even up so why would we get robbed more y adding minor league talent on top of it? Hudson was not the A's ace last season at all, but PK hit 41 homer runs to lead all AL 1Bmen. You might be right. But if you use that logic, then none of Oakland's big 3 was the ace this year...Zito was mediocre, Mulder fell apart down the stretch, and Hudson had an injury riddled year. Rich Harden was the ace of that staff, with him being probably the most consistent starter from game 1 to game 162. Konerko had the best year of his career, but is not getting better. His value is at its highest its ever been, and KW knows that, and Beane knows that. Beane is not looking at keeping Konerko...I dont see how he can be. I see him being more interested in what he can get for Konerko rather then what Konerko can do in the gold and green Hudson is a top 3 starter in the AL...easily. Konerko might be a top 3 1Bman, but is not a top 3 hitter in the league and is barely the 3rd best hitter on his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 We need more carlos lee's than we do paul konerko's. I think we can all agree with that. qwerty I wouldn't trade Carlos Lee either. But, I stick with my comments on PK also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 No doubt, think about it like this gload and huddy or pauly and grilli. Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Paulie and Pavano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I would have to reexamine our road record for the last few years. I am not so certain we sucked every year, but I would have to see the numbers before challenging you on that. You might be right that we haven't been a rip roaring road club, but is that Konerko's fault? Would Hudson mae us better at the expense of losing PK? It is not soley konerko's fault but he does contribute to the problems. Reason we need a pitcher like hudson is because he is a stoppper. If we are on a 3-4 game losing streak i would have more faith in him than any other pitcher on are team to step up and get a win, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I beg to differ... I think that is being realistic and knowing your best players. Now maybe we should look at trading Crede for Hudson? I like Joe a lot also, but that makes more sense than your best slugger. Oakland has no use for one of the worst 3Bman in the league, considering they have the best 3Bman in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Paulie and Pavano. It could be...if the payroll could be boosted to $85 mill. Problem is, it can't be...so other moves have to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Doesn't have to be that way. It could be Paulie and Pavano. Pavano is either going to saty with the marlins or go to the red sox. He has no interest in the yankees whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I beg to differ... I think that is being realistic and knowing your best players. Now maybe we should look at trading Crede for Hudson? I like Joe a lot also, but that makes more sense than your best slugger. Why would Oakland want Crede when they already have Chavez. Frankly I'm suprised the A's aren't interested in Lee. They need an OF to replace Dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 You might be right. But if you use that logic, then none of Oakland's big 3 was the ace this year...Zito was mediocre, Mulder fell apart down the stretch, and Hudson had an injury riddled year. Rich Harden was the ace of that staff, with him being probably the most consistent starter from game 1 to game 162. Konerko had the best year of his career, but is not getting better. His value is at its highest its ever been, and KW knows that, and Beane knows that. Beane is not looking at keeping Konerko...I dont see how he can be. I see him being more interested in what he can get for Konerko rather then what Konerko can do in the gold and green Hudson is a top 3 starter in the AL...easily. Konerko might be a top 3 1Bman, but is not a top 3 hitter in the league and is barely the 3rd best hitter on his team. I respect what you are saying, but I think you are contradicting yourself a bit. Would I want one of the A's big 3 or 4 Yes! However, they all slipped last year and Konerko was on the upswing and I think he can still get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Why would Oakland want Crede when they already have Chavez. Frankly I'm suprised the A's aren't interested in Lee. They need an OF to replace Dye. Did I hear right that Chavez was on the block? Might have been idle chatter though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Why would Oakland want Crede when they already have Chavez. Frankly I'm suprised the A's aren't interested in Lee. They need an OF to replace Dye. I think Qwerty mentioned Swisher would be taking over that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I respect what you are saying, but I think you are contradicting yourself a bit. Would I want one of the A's big 3 or 4 Yes! However, they all slipped last year and Konerko was on the upswing and I think he can still get better. Buy low, sell high There was a reason KW hung onto Paulie last year instead of trading him for Odalis Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Did I hear right that Chavez was on the block? Might have been idle chatter though? No is is not, he just signed a long term deal last off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I cannot fathom why anyone would want Paulie over Hudson. I don't think the A's will trade him for Hairston or Julio because Beane probably doesn't have what is now being referred to as the "Hairston Hard-on" that many on this board have. They have Mark Ellis returning from injury and will be playing 2nd and leading off. If the A's were going to keep a Sox player, it would be Lee. If they want to spin someone to say the O's, Jays, or Seattle, it would be Paulie. Anybody who's spent 5 minutes watching the waiver wire in past eyars knows that Billy Boy likes to make deals larger so I anticipate a 3rd team. I don't think they will be very interested in Julio as they will have Garcia, Dotel, Street, Bradford, and Arthur Rhodes all in the pen next year. I just don't think there will be a single trade for the A's pitching, but it will be rather intricate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 The Red Sox, other then Hanley Ramirez, pretty much have garbage in the minor leagues. And what makes you think Billy Beane thinks you guys have top prospects? Oh come on, you of all people thinking that? Abe Alvarez, Jon Papelbon, Jon Lester, Manny Delcarmen, Hanley Ramirez, Brandon Moss, Dustin Pedroia, Kelly Shoppach, Chad Spann, David Murphy, Jeremy West or even the Michael Rozier kid. There might not be an overflow of Reeds, Andersons, and Sweeney's but theres definitly some future major leaguers in this farm system. palehosefan will tell you. ;o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 We need more carlos lee's than we do paul konerko's. I think we can all agree with that. Only if these Carlos clones have PK's attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I don't know enough about the Red Sox farm system, so you'd have to clue me in on the situation...everything I've heard and read says that the Sawks farm system is dry. I'm sure there are hot commodities, every farm system has a few of them...that doesn't mean they have more then the White Sox or Yankees or some other team that could make an offer to Boston. Also...there is enough interest in Hudson that his value being very low does not mean a hell of a lot. His value would be low regardless of the season he had last year, this being the last year of his contract. And there is no one saying that Beane HAS to trade Hudson...he can trade Mulder and get good value for him too along with being able to trade Zito and getting value for him too. This is similar to the RJ scenario where many people think RJs value will not be high, but in reality is, due to the fact that Arizona does NOT have to trade him. Another thing...I disagree with Hudson having the worst year of his career. He was a little banged up this year, and didn't have as good a season as he has had in years past. He won 20 games in his second full season, sure...he also got offensive support that year. His ERA in 2000 was also over 4.00, his WHIP was around 1.24, his K/BB was around 2, and he gave up over a homer per start(about 1.06 HR/9). In 2004, his ERA was 3.53, his WHIP about 1.25, his K/BB of 2.5, and he gave up 1 homer every 3 starts(about .38 HR/9 innings...that's 8 homers in 188 2/3 innings pitched). What's insane about that is that he has gotten better about allowing homers in every year of his career...his homers allowed has decreased every year he's been in the majors(1.06 HR/9 in 00, .77 in 01, .71 in 02, .56 in 03, and as I said before, .38 in 04). His year was not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. This fits into the buy low, sell high philosophy due to the fact that Hudson's value is not nearly as low as you make it out to be, and trading Konerko after acquiring him would be in fact selling high and buying low. They have no use for Konerko other then to trade him. I have no doubt that they could be looking at Baltimore in getting Konerko...you get Konerko plus some very solid prospects for Hudson, and you then ship Konerko to Baltimore for Julio and Hairston. Hairston takes over in RF or 2B or wherever they need him, and he can be put in the lineup where they need him, and Julio adds a much needed arm to the bullpen. It doesn't matter how badly I make his year out to be. The fact is he didnt turn heads this season like he did in other seasons, and the injuries don't help where as Konerko had the best year of his career. If Billy Beane was this master of buying low and selling high as he has done so well acquiring some of his players, then he wouldn't make this deal by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 The Red Sox have a barren system. Mush like the Yankees, the problem is not with potential it's that there is absolutely ZERO major league-ready talent. Shoppach and Ramirez just aren't ready and they aren't considered the among the best prospects in the game by any stretch. Billy is not going to trade for for a couple of guys with 07 ETA's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 The Red Sox have a barren system. Mush like the Yankees, the problem is not with potential it's that there is absolutely ZERO major league-ready talent. Shoppach and Ramirez just aren't ready and they aren't considered the among the best prospects in the game by any stretch. Billy is not going to trade for for a couple of guys with 07 ETA's I'll agree with that, thats fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Isn't Hudson a Sox fan? Or was that Mulder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.