Chisoxfn Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Article The article mentions that the Sox will look at Beltran, Vizquel and potentially dangle Paul Konerko as trade bait. It also says that Ken Williams is hoping to have a payroll in the range of 70 million, mabye even higher. Its funny how you have some quotes of Kenny quoted as saying it will remain 65 and then a trib article stating the same last week and now this. I think the Sox will be agressive, like they usually are, and its interesting to now hear Konerko's name coming up considering earlier in the year we all suspected Lee (I'm sure his name being mentioned in this article had nothing to do with Rosenthals rumor). I think the fair thing to say is that Kenny will be agressive as usual and that realistically any of Konerko/Lee could be traded and I find it likely that one will be gone. Hopefully the payroll finds itself in the 70 mill range this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Not sure if anybody saw this, but this was on the Trib site. Some interesting things in here. Sox plan to roll dice Club looking at Beltran, Vizquel By Dave van Dyck Special to the Tribune November 3, 2004, 11:10 PM CST White Sox decision-makers, starting organizational meetings in Las Vegas, have begun mapping out winter plans that do not include their own free agent Magglio Ordonez, do include free agents such as Carlos Beltran and Omar Vizquel, and may include dangling first baseman Paul Konerko as trade bait. These are clearly an important few days for the future of the team. By the time they are over general manager Kenny Williams hopes to have a salary budget for next season, one that could rise to more than $70 million. In other words, it will be a busy few days as Williams and his staff lay some groundwork for the Nov. 8-12 general managers' meetings in Key Biscayne, Fla. "The only thing I know for sure is what I want to do first," Williams said Wednesday in a telephone interview. "I'm optimistic about it [happening]." He would not reveal more than that, but the first move could be the signing of Vizquel, the slick-fielding shortstop and potential leadoff hitter from Cleveland, which has said it will not try to retain him. The White Sox can't sign Vizquel before Nov. 12, when free agents officially become completely "free." Vizquel, 37, reportedly wants at least a two-year contract worth at least $4 million per year. That's chump change compared with what Beltran—the hottest commodity among position players—will get. But that hasn't kept Williams, who apparently is hearing things through baseball's grapevine, from dreaming about him patrolling center field at U.S. Cellular Field. "I know we would be an attractive destination for him," Williams said, sounding sure of himself. "I know he has an interest. But it would do no good to get into particulars at this point." Williams does not expect Beltran to sign until December, after agent Scott Boras milks the last few pennies from suitors who are expected to include the Yankees. In an interview with "Chicago Tribune Live" on Comcast SportsNet this week, Boras spoke of a 10-year contract for Beltran. Beltran could command as much $18 million to $20 million per season. Boras is a major player this off-season. He also is the new agent for Ordonez, the Sox's right fielder whose relationship with the club has reached a very strange, and strained, point. Boras told "Tribune Live" he had had several inquiries about Ordonez, but none from the White Sox. "No, [boras] has not called me," Williams said. "I haven't heard from anybody since the change in representation [to Boras]. I don't think anything is going to get done before Dec. 7, so we're making plans without him." Dec. 7 is the date by which the White Sox must offer arbitration to Ordonez or lose draft-pick compensation if he leaves. It is doubtful they would offer arbitration because they might be struck with more than his $14 million salary of last season. As for trade talks, Williams says he is encouraged the hot stove league seems to be heating up before the GM meetings, which traditionally do not produce many deals. Sources say Williams may offer Konerko to other teams just to see what his value is. Even though he was the team leader in homers (41) and RBIs (117) last season, Konerko could be the big-name player going in any large trade this winter. During the final month of the season, it was determined Carlos Lee would be kept in the outfield, making Konerko vulnerable as trade bait. The Sox apparently believe Ross Gload is good enough to handle first base in a revamped lineup that includes more speed, less reliance on power and better defense. This doesn't mean Konerko will be leaving, just that Williams could shop him in an effort to lower payroll (Konerko makes $8.75 million next season, but gets $500,000 more if he is traded). Annually one of the most aggressive GMs in baseball, Williams said he may change his tactics this winter. "I'm trying to allow clubs to come to us more than in the past," he said. "Rather than try to shape the landscape, I'd rather let others shape it. "Although," he added, laughing. "that could change by this afternoon." By the end of the week, Williams hopes to have a payroll figure from club chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, who also is in Las Vegas. Last season the Sox wound up with a salary in the $65-million range, 15th highest in baseball. He will get at least that much for next season, but most likely more as the Sox try to end Minnesota's three-year hold on first place in the American League Central Division. Even if the Sox go to $75 million, it leaves them far from the big spenders in baseball. The Cubs are likely to have a payroll in the mid-$90 million range. World Series champion Boston had a payroll of nearly $130 million, but Williams says $75 million is a workable figure to be more than competitive. The two previous champions, Anaheim and Florida, had payrolls of less than $70 million. "I felt—and this probably sounds like a stupid statement—that in 2003 we had a team that could not only win the division but win in the playoffs and win the World Series," Williams said. "That team was not afraid of anyone. "Listen, if you want to play fantasy baseball, I could build a hell of a team. But we have to deal with the reality of the marketplace." And Williams, as always, is ready to start dealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Oops. Somebody just beat me to the punch. Please merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 "The only thing I know for sure is what I want to do first," Williams said Wednesday in a telephone interview. "I'm optimistic about it [happening]." He would not reveal more than that, but the first move could be the signing of Vizquel, the slick-fielding shortstop and potential leadoff hitter from Cleveland, which has said it will not try to retain him. The White Sox can't sign Vizquel before Nov. 12, when free agents officially become completely "free." Vizquel, 37, reportedly wants at least a two-year contract worth at least $4 million per year. That's chump change compared with what Beltran—the hottest commodity among position players—will get. But that hasn't kept Williams, who apparently is hearing things through baseball's grapevine, from dreaming about him patrolling center field at U.S. Cellular Field. "I know we would be an attractive destination for him," Williams said, sounding sure of himself. "I know he has an interest. But it would do no good to get into particulars at this point." From the sounds of this, their may be some truth to Peter Gammons talking about Omar Vizquel and that being the first moved. I also gotta say I'm hoping somehow Maggs signs a long term deal before Dec. 7th, that way the Sox dont' have to worry about offering arbitration and automatically get the picks, lol. The article also mentions that Kenny is going to take a little bit of a different approach this off-season, letting clubs come to him more often in terms of trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Haha its all good kev. I'll merge it right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I don't think Ordonez will sign any long-term deals in the perceivable future. I have a feeling most teams will wait longer than the typical FA to make sure his knee is improving. However, I have to say that reading this article, I'm actually optimistic on where KW is heading with this roster during the offseason. Hell, it's better than reading that KW will have a payroll less than last year, etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Just want to throw a little unlikely to happen scenario out there, but how would this be for an off-season. Sox sign Carlos Beltran Sox sign Omar Vizquel Sox Trade for Kevin Brown (pay a very minimal amount of his contract) and give up Arnie Munoz, Felix Diaz, and Joe Borchard Sox probably have to trade one of Lee/Konerko (i'd rather deal Konerko cause Gload would fit in just fine) and they get prospects in this trade plus a good reliever (maybe Juan Cruz and prospects from the Braves). Either way it fills shortstop, it fills the rotation with a potential ace, and gives us a stud cf to market for a long long time. Rowand Omar Beltran Thomas Lee Gload/Everett Crede Catcher Harris/Uribe Rotation Brown Buehrle Garcia Contreras Garland When you think about it, that rotation has a lot of groundball pitchers so maybe it could work out. Brown should pitch well in Chicago, although its a given he'll miss at least a few starts, but as long as he's heatlhy most of the year he gives you a guy thats an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 That's going to be a $25 million increase for all those players, but you trade Konerko or Lee and it goes down to $16 to $17 million increase. That means payroll would have to go up to $80 million, since it's at $63 million now. Can't see it happening, unless we can somehow trade Everett, and get the payroll down a few million more, than JR might actually consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Personally I don't think we'll sign Beltran either, so instead of trading for Brown, we trade for Hudson and sign a FA closer like Troy Percival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I was an still am expecting PK to go. I think the guy is great, but Ozzie did state that he wanted to play the game his way. PK can't bunt, can't run, and hits into tons of DP's. Gload is hungry,good defensively, runs decent, etc and management seems to want to give him a chance. Now that we know Big Frank will be back, I think We've seen the last of Paulie. .Between not signing Maggs $14ML, Jose' $5ML, and trading PK $8.75ML, that's 28ML he's got to play with, let alone if he gets a payroll increase. Then money will still be left for an outfielder If KW wants to stay aggressive and get us some top notch players to fill holes, he'll need to free up some revenue. Vizquel, and Eric Milton will be likely candidates.(I hope not Russ Ortiz! Not happy with his control. Walks too many). As far as outfielder, can't see us getting Beltran. Someone in the 2-5 year contract range at $7-$10 ML will be more likely. Either way, I have a great feeling that this off-season will have us buzzing a lot more than it did last year. "Is April Here Yet????" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Sox Trade for Kevin Brown (pay a very minimal amount of his contract) and give up Arnie Munoz, Felix Diaz, and Joe Borchard I could see maybe someone wantinf Diaz and Munoz, but who in their right mind would want "Billy Koch with a baseball bat." Sorry, I kind of had enough of getting tortured by Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I gotta say it is pretty shocking to me to see Beltran's name mentioned after the rumors about payroll staying the same just came out of the same newspaper. I really doubt we have a chance at the guy, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Vizquel, and Eric Milton will be likely candidates.(I hope not Russ Ortiz! Not happy with his control. Walks too many). Milton would be a way worse pickup than Ortiz. He had around a 4.75 ERA last year in the NL (more than half a run higher than Oriz), gave up 43 Hrs (evenly split netween road and home) and had a horrific GO/AO ratio of around 0.5 (I think he gives up twice as many flyballs as Ortiz...). Milton would be a disaster at USCF. I seriuosly think Diaz or maybe even Grilli would be able to come close to matching Milton's performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hard to understand how Beltran's 18 million fits into a $70 million payroll. and you know he's going to want 7 years. The Trib article mentions 10. Sounds good. but it's not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hard to understand how Beltran's 18 million fits into a $70 million payroll. and you know he's going to want 7 years. The Trib article mentions 10. Sounds good. but it's not realistic. Ya, he could get a 200 million contract, but I think its more likely he gets a 7 year deal. This could be a very risky proposition, but if the Sox could defer some of the money it may be something they consider. JR has a tendency to tab players as above and beyond the payroll guys, its quite possible either Beltran or RJ are those type of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I could see maybe someone wantinf Diaz and Munoz, but who in their right mind would want "Billy Koch with a baseball bat." Sorry, I kind of had enough of getting tortured by Borchard. Your missing an important difference. Billy Koch was actually good for a few years. Borchard is, was, and always will be a never was and a symbol of the complete failure of this organization in drafting and developing talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Milton would be a way worse pickup than Ortiz. He had around a 4.75 ERA last year in the NL (more than half a run higher than Oriz), gave up 43 Hrs (evenly split netween road and home) and had a horrific GO/AO ratio of around 0.5 (I think he gives up twice as many flyballs as Ortiz...). Milton would be a disaster at USCF. I seriuosly think Diaz or maybe even Grilli would be able to come close to matching Milton's performance. I agree totally with your point of view. What I was rather referring to is that if the Sox are going to unload some money on other quality players, they'll also want to figure in a another affordabler starter. Milton being a lefty may put a spark in KW. If not Milton, fine,...... but another proven qualty lefty is what we need in our mix. Grilli is a maybe, but in all likelyhood, after what happened the last 2 years, do you really think KW will want to "take another chance at a "maybe starter" in the 5th spot?" I think Grilli will be fine,but in the pen, unless otherwise needed. Either way, a "proven" starter is what we need. Pitching is a huge chunk why we don't play in October, and KW has stressed that continuously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Your missing an important difference. Billy Koch was actually good for a few years. Borchard is, was, and always will be a never was and a symbol of the complete failure of this organization in drafting and developing talent. Yeah, but I'll tell you what. After JR forking over $5.3MIL.signing bonus, do you think that he will give him up easily?? No way. They'll beat us into the ground with this guy to make sure he somehow gets his moneys worth. I'm afraid we're stuck with this guy for quite a while. We went through all this garbage with Danny Wright! The Mr. Great Potential that amounted to nothing but "SQUAT!!!!!!!" How much more will we have to deal with this guy when they have 10 times the more revenue invested in him, than in Danny Wright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I'm still drooling over Buehrle, Garcia, Hudson, Contreras, Garland possibilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I'm still drooling over Buehrle, Garcia, Hudson, Contreras, Garland possibilities... Works for me!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I'm still drooling over Buehrle, Garcia, Hudson, Contreras, Garland possibilities... The rotation would be Hudson-Buehrle-Garcia-Contreras-Garland But I agree completely with you. Except the drooling part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I gotta say it is pretty shocking to me to see Beltran's name mentioned after the rumors about payroll staying the same just came out of the same newspaper. I really doubt we have a chance at the guy, but who knows. I am surprised that baseball folks would even consider paying another player in the $18 to $20M range. Alex Rod didn't equal a championship for the Rangers or the Yankees. You don't win with one guy and that's what Texas tried to do. The Yanks took on all that salary and still didn't win. He is great no doubt about it, but i would have thought the days of monster salaries might be over finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Yeah, but I'll tell you what. After JR forking over $5.3MIL.signing bonus, do you think that he will give him up easily?? No way. They'll beat us into the ground with this guy to make sure he somehow gets his moneys worth. I'm afraid we're stuck with this guy for quite a while. We went through all this garbage with Danny Wright! The Mr. Great Potential that amounted to nothing but "SQUAT!!!!!!!" How much more will we have to deal with this guy when they have 10 times the more revenue invested in him, than in Danny Wright? He still might deevlop into a hitter. We need to keep that thought in our head because Joe B will be here and most likely in RF in '05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 He still might deevlop into a hitter. We need to keep that thought in our head because Joe B will be here and most likely in RF in '05. He has devoloped into all he will ever devolope into most likely. He may be in right field next year but definitely not as a starter, He is nothing more than a 6th/7th outfielder in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 who in their right mind would take kevin brown? his whole career has been marred with injuries.... not for us i say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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