witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 So he hit .270 40 110...big deal. --Are you serious? It was a big deal. He had a great season. Keep Paulie. He had a great season, but I don't see how this season was any different than his 2002 or 2001 season. Yeah, he had more homers...and he had way fewer doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hawaiisoxfn Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I've defended every aspect of the trade I proposed down to the core, and some people still don't understand the trade fully. It is actually, PK, CLee, 2-3 prospects, and $10 mill for Hudson and Byrnes...if you read down a bit farther, you see that. And it saves us $5 mill...and that $5 mill does not go towards signing Omar Vizquel. It goes towards trading for Jose Guillen or signing Troy Percival(or both). So, essentially, it is trading PK, CLee, 2-3 prospects, and $10 mill for Hudson, Byrnes, and Guillen/Percival. I don't see how that doesn't help the team a ton. And it gives us a top 3 rotation in the majors. That helps a little too. Well, ten million is even worse than six. And our rotation might be one of the best, but the lineup would be one of the worst. After Frank, and maybe Everett, theres no threat in that lineup. And Jose Guillen, even if we did get him, is a cancer. As for Percival, why? We have Takatsu. Dont fix it if its not broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 As for Percival, why? We have Takatsu. Dont fix it if its not broken. Our bullpen in general is ''broken'' after marte, and shingo i really do not have much faith, alittle for politte but that is about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Well, ten million is even worse than six. And our rotation might be one of the best, but the lineup would be one of the worst. After Frank, and maybe Everett, theres no threat in that lineup. And Jose Guillen, even if we did get him, is a cancer. As for Percival, why? We have Takatsu. Dont fix it if its not broken. Even giving the $10 mil total($4 mill in 05, $2 mill in 06, $4 mill in 07), we're still up $5 mill for this year. That's one of the reasons. The lineup would be good enough to win games...it's a fudamentally sound lineup and everyone has pop, and is still easily upgradeable. And you can't tell me that there is no threat after Everett and Thomas. Rowand, Byrnes, Crede, and Uribe all had 20+ homers last year, Byrnes and Uribe both had OPS's of around .800, and Rowand was around .900. And Gload did hit like .300 7 40 .800 in limited playing time...he's pretty solid too. Saying that no one is a threat after Everett and Thomas is assinine. The most important thing though is probably that the offense is easily upgradeable...we go into the year with something that's easy to upgrade as opposed to something that is pretty goddamn tough to upgrade. Jose Guillen has done things to piss people off...who cares? The Angels won 92 games with him in their lineup, and he's been atleast part of the reason that he's been on a team that has gone to the playoffs two straight years. The bullpen is broken...we had one of the worst in the league last year, and that was part of the reason we were a .500 team. That's the reason we'd be interested in Percival. We want to strengthen the pen a lot. Regardless of whether Shingo or Percy or even Marte was closing, that's a moot point. The main idea is to strengthen the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 give up that trade idea already.... when just about everyone doesnt agree with you its not a good idea.... and dont forget jose guillen isnt just going to come for a bag of balls the angels want talent for him.... so that means 1 of either anderson, sweeney, or b-mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 give up that trade idea already.... when just about everyone doesnt agree with you its not a good idea.... and dont forget jose guillen isnt just going to come for a bag of balls the angels want talent for him.... so that means 1 of either anderson, sweeney, or b-mac No way does it mean one of anderson, sweeney, or b-mac. I mean he is good but in the end he is only jose guillen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 give up that trade idea already.... when just about everyone doesnt agree with you its not a good idea.... and dont forget jose guillen isnt just going to come for a bag of balls the angels want talent for him.... so that means 1 of either anderson, sweeney, or b-mac I agree. There's no point in dragging s*** that doesn't have a remote chance of happening into another thread. :headshake Sox give up $10 million to pay for Konerko and Lee?!?!? What a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I don't know if any of you were listening today but Bruce Levine reported that there are talks between the White Sox and Pirates. The Pirates would give up Jason Kendall straight up for Paulie. Would you guys do that? I think I would! Good defensive catcher, good OBP, can run the bases exceptionally well for a catcher and is considered one of the smartest players in baseball. Granted we would be trading away 40HRs for 4HRs, but I think we are getting an all around better player for what is basically a slow, slugging, DH type player. I think it makes sense for the type of team Ozzie wants. Omar Vizquel, Jason Kendall, and Juan Uribe gives us a very strong up the middle defensive team. I am not counting out Aaron Rowand as a CF, but from what I can tell, they want him to play RF. Maybe I am reading too much into their interest in Carlos Beltran, but I think they like Rowands defense and arm in RF and his bat is definately good enough for a corner OF position. Then again talking about Rowand is a whole different subject all together. What do you guys think of the Konerko for Kendall trade? Would you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I don't know if any of you were listening today but Bruce Levine reported that there are talks between the White Sox and Pirates. The Pirates would give up Jason Kendall straight up for Paulie. Would you guys do that? I think I would! Good defensive catcher, good OBP, can run the bases exceptionally well for a catcher and is considered one of the smartest players in baseball. Granted we would be trading away 40HRs for 4HRs, but I think we are getting an all around better player for what is basically a slow, slugging, DH type player. I think it makes sense for the type of team Ozzie wants. Omar Vizquel, Jason Kendall, and Juan Uribe gives us a very strong up the middle defensive team. I am not counting out Aaron Rowand as a CF, but from what I can tell, they want him to play RF. Maybe I am reading too much into their interest in Carlos Beltran, but I think they like Rowands defense and arm in RF and his bat is definately good enough for a corner OF position. Then again talking about Rowand is a whole different subject all together. What do you guys think of the Konerko for Kendall trade? Would you do it? SSI, I totally agree with you. I'd definitely do that trade, as long as the other offer (Hudson for Paully - obviously not straight up, though) was false. I've always liked what Kendall has done, and he would make this team a hell of a lot better. Immediate help at the top of the lineup, plus a pretty solid defensive catcher. Mark me down on the Kendall bandwagon (that makes two bandwagons for me -- Hairston and Kendall ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 f*** Kendall. I'd rather trade Konerko for pitching help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 f*** Kendall. I'd rather trade Konerko for pitching help. You don't think that adding Vizquel and Kendall is a way to upgrade your pitching staff? You don't have to look any further than the Cardinals to see what up the middle defense can do for your pitching staff. These two moves also gives Ozzie damn smart heads up baseball players that adds instant veteran leadership to a team that desperately needs that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 You don't think that adding Vizquel and Kendall is a way to upgrade your pitching staff? You don't have to look any further than the Cardinals to see what up the middle defense can do for your pitching staff. These two moves also gives Ozzie damn smart heads up baseball players that adds instant veteran leadership to a team that desperately needs that. Trading Konerko for Kendall straight up would be stupid because of his ridiculous contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Trading Konerko for Kendall straight up would be stupid because of his ridiculous contract. ha ha, whose? Paulie's ridiculous contract or Kendall's? HA HA! The contracts are basically a wash in this argument in my eyes and I would much rather have Kendall if that is the major factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 You don't think that adding Vizquel and Kendall is a way to upgrade your pitching staff? You don't have to look any further than the Cardinals to see what up the middle defense can do for your pitching staff. These two moves also gives Ozzie damn smart heads up baseball players that adds instant veteran leadership to a team that desperately needs that. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'd definitely make this move. Say we trade Paully for Kendall, and have Pittsburg eat half of Kendall's contract (IIRC, his contract is somewhere around 12 million). So, now we have a lineup of (assuming Vizquel is inked to a deal with us): C-Kendall SS-Vizquel DH-Thomas LF-Lee RF-Everett CF-Rowand 1B-Gload 2B-Uribe 3B-Crede Now, we'd have an excellent top of the order vs. lefties and righties (switch Rowand and Vizquel when vs. a LH pitcher). Then, we have to figure out how to aquire a pitcher. I'm iffy on having this organization ink another pitcher to a multiyear contract. But I do like the move. If Kenny were to somehow acquire a reliever from Pittsburg along with Kendall, however, I'd like the move a lot more. I would do this deal, though. Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 ha ha, whose? Paulie's ridiculous contract or Kendall's? HA HA! The contracts are basically a wash in this argument in my eyes and I would much rather have Kendall if that is the major factor. Konerko is a FA after this year. Kendall would make $1.75 million more than Konerko this year if he played for the Sox. Kendall's 2006 salary is $12.5 million, and then it looks like he gets paid $4.5 million in 2007 for nothing, and he gets $0.5m each year deferred w/ interest; $2m signing bonus deferred w/ out interest (I assume that has already been paid for.) http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_11_...rs_archive.html And you can't figure out who has the ridiculous contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Konerko is a FA after this year. Kendall would make $1.75 million more than Konerko this year if he played for the Sox. Kendall's 2006 salary is $12.5 million, and then it looks like he gets paid $4.5 million in 2007 for nothing, and he gets $0.5m each year deferred w/ interest; $2m signing bonus deferred w/ out interest (I assume that has already been paid for.) http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_11_...rs_archive.html And you can't figure out who has the ridiculous contract? I got Kendall down for $10 mill in 05, $11 mill in 06, and $13 mill in 07 Jason Kendall C PIT Signed Nov 2000 - 6 years/$60M 2002: $6.0M (+$4.0M signing bonus, half deferred without interest) 2003: $8.0M 2004: $8.0M 2005: $10.0M 2006: $11.0M 2007: $13.0M Link It hasn't been updated in a while, but still has contracts of players who signed contracts prior to 2002 or 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I'd do Konerko for Kendall, but they would have to eat some of the back-end of kendell's contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I'd do Konerko for Kendall, but they would have to eat some of the back-end of kendell's contract. $34 mill over 3 years is a ton of money for a guy who just gets a lot of base hits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 $34 mill over 3 years is a ton of money for a guy who just gets a lot of base hits He top a top three lead-off man, he may just be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 yeah a good hitting catcher that can leadoff... i can only dream of a lineup of him and vizquel leading off.. well actualy that doesnt seem 2 far off from reality so ill dream of him and pierre leading off for us next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 He top a top three lead-off man, he may just be worth it. He is, I agree with that. He's not worth $11 mill a year though. Maybe $7 or $8, but not $11. If we could get Pittsburgh to take on enough to make Konerko for Kendall basically a wash, I do it in a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 He is, I agree with that. He's not worth $11 mill a year though. Maybe $7 or $8, but not $11. If we could get Pittsburgh to take on enough to make Konerko for Kendall basically a wash, I do it in a second. Really, I mean, I am a big fan of Kendall but konerko for kendall w/ money washing out. Konerko is better than kendall even with teh very important fact that kendall is a C. Borchard & Garland for Kendall and 7 million of his contract per year paid by pittsburgh seems logical and reasonable for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 He is, I agree with that. He's not worth $11 mill a year though. Maybe $7 or $8, but not $11. If we could get Pittsburgh to take on enough to make Konerko for Kendall basically a wash, I do it in a second. I agree that for us he is not 11 million dollar worthy. But some teams would not think twice about giving him 11 million dollars if the chance came along. Not alot of teams, but several. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I know I'm repeating myself, but I'd definitely make this move. Say we trade Paully for Kendall, and have Pittsburg eat half of Kendall's contract (IIRC, his contract is somewhere around 12 million). So, now we have a lineup of (assuming Vizquel is inked to a deal with us): C-Kendall SS-Vizquel DH-Thomas LF-Lee RF-Everett CF-Rowand 1B-Gload 2B-Uribe 3B-Crede Now, we'd have an excellent top of the order vs. lefties and righties (switch Rowand and Vizquel when vs. a LH pitcher). Then, we have to figure out how to aquire a pitcher. I'm iffy on having this organization ink another pitcher to a multiyear contract. But I do like the move. If Kenny were to somehow acquire a reliever from Pittsburg along with Kendall, however, I'd like the move a lot more. I would do this deal, though. Definitely. If pittsburgh would eat half, id do it in a second. Kendall gets a good obp, runs well, is a good solid all around catcher who could leadoff. 1.Jason Kendall-C 2.Omar Vizquel-SS 3.Frank Thomas-DH 4.Carlos Lee-LF 5.Aaron Rowand-CF 6.?????-1B(I cant see us going with gload-he is like graffanino if u know what i mean, only a bench player, a long long shot i rogowski but if he comes on super strong up until the end of spring training he has a shot) 7.Carl Everett-RF 8.Juan Uribe-2B 9.Joe Crede-3B This would be a GREAT lineup. Not one hole in it. Also, I think Crede will have a BIG year this season and I think Everett will do a lot better than what people think. In doing those 2 moves for vizquel and kendall we overall lose 2 million, so lets say we have 15 million left(14 million relieved from ordonez+bump up in payroll-pay raises) 1.Mark Buehrle 2.Freddy Garcia 3.Odalis Perez(7-8 million per yr) 4.Jose Contreras 5.Jon Garland Now we have 7 million left lets say. Closer-Armando Benitez/Troy Percival(6-7 million) Setup-Shingo Takatsu Setup-Damaso Marte Mid-Cliff Politte Mid-Arnie Munoz Mid-Neal Cotts Mid/Long-Jon Adkins I think this would give us a REAL solid team that would be a favorite for the AL CENTRAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 I agree that for us he is not 11 million dollar worthy. But some teams would not think twice about giving him 11 million dollars if the chance came along. Not alot of teams, but several. Thats not true. The pirates have practically done that-offered to basically give him to a team for a crap spec in return-no team wanted to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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