soxfan420 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 he is not expected to pitch april 6th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The White Sox need to be careful with DW and not rush him back. An assignment to the minor leagues, at this point, is the right decision. Hopefully the doctors are right and there is no serious damage to the elbow and DW just needs more time to lightly rehab his throwing arm..... when I hear elbows, I think K Wood and when a pitcher has soreness and the docs say there is nothing wrong, I think of Sirotka and his undiagnosed torn labrum. I hope this isn't the case with DW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The White Sox need to be careful with DW and not rush him back. An assignment to the minor leagues, at this point, is the right decision. Hopefully the doctors are right and there is no serious damage to the elbow and DW just needs more time to lightly rehab his throwing arm..... when I hear elbows, I think K Wood and when a pitcher has soreness and the docs say there is nothing wrong, I think of Sirotka and his undiagnosed torn labrum. I hope this isn't the case with DW. whatever it takes to get danny 100% healthy...if that means shutting him down for an extended period then so be it...if we can fix this with timer over surgery we would be idiotic to push it..of course that jhasnt stopped the sox in the past. p.s. to danny...get your own doctor!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I truly believe we will see him come back either right before or right after the all star break. I think they will shuthim down, clean the bone chips and give him about 3 weeks in the minors before he comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I truly believe we will see him come back either right before or right after the all star break. I think they will shuthim down, clean the bone chips and give him about 3 weeks in the minors before he comes up. I think it's all gonna depend on Josh Stewart, if Josh pitches well Danny might have to beat Loaiza out for a spot. But if Josh struggles Danny might be back in to rotation after 10 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaSoxRox Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 God damn it!.....why can't Rauch get his s*** together????????? Talk about opportunities.....geez, what a disappointment ......I mean, he was basically given the #5 spot in February and all he had to do was throw it over the plate like he did in September and well, no, he can't do that now.......sigh....we just need him big time right about now....at some point you gotta grow up and be a man....I would think its Jon's turn right about now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Rauch had every chance this spring. It is a shame. What really concerned me were the two innings in a row against KC where it was 2 outs and no one on and 0-2 on the batters and he was scored on each time. Lets hope he gets it together in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaSoxRox Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I think he's really at a crossroads in his career....I've seen a ton of kids hit this early stage in their careers and are unable to, for whatever reason, be able to mentally get over the lack of confidence once reaching the major league level...you hear it over and over again....there's a whole bunch of fellas who can fire it in the mid 90's, but only a handful who can actually pitch....I think, for Jon, this is a very critical year in his career for him to figure out whether he is just a thrower and whether he is a PITCHER. Let's hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 God damn it!.....why can't Rauch get his s*** together????????? Talk about opportunities.....geez, what a disappointment ......I mean, he was basically given the #5 spot in February and all he had to do was throw it over the plate like he did in September and well, no, he can't do that now.......sigh....we just need him big time right about now....at some point you gotta grow up and be a man....I would think its Jon's turn right about now..... in fairness to rauch his curve ball was affected by the thin air, and i think he would do better in chicago, im hopin for the same thing out of rick white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 I think he's really at a crossroads in his career....I've seen a ton of kids hit this early stage in their careers and are unable to, for whatever reason, be able to mentally get over the lack of confidence once reaching the major league level...you hear it over and over again....there's a whole bunch of fellas who can fire it in the mid 90's, but only a handful who can actually pitch....I think, for Jon, this is a very critical year in his career for him to figure out whether he is just a thrower and whether he is a PITCHER. Let's hope for the best. MB has no confidence and look how he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I think he's really at a crossroads in his career....I've seen a ton of kids hit this early stage in their careers and are unable to, for whatever reason, be able to mentally get over the lack of confidence once reaching the major league level...you hear it over and over again....there's a whole bunch of fellas who can fire it in the mid 90's, but only a handful who can actually pitch....I think, for Jon, this is a very critical year in his career for him to figure out whether he is just a thrower and whether he is a PITCHER. Let's hope for the best. MB has no confidence and look how he does I'm sure Mark has confidence inside, he's just modest, something that Sosa should try sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Sox already f***ed up one HOF-caliber pitching talent in Barcelo. Now it's Rauch's turn? Unbelievable. I heard he is injured again/will never recover from labrum tear. Couple that with them screwing up both Corwin Malone and Jason Stumm; I am seriously starting to worry about Honel's progress. I mean these are the guys are suposed to make ther Sox the Insians of the 2000s...damn. Thanks Nardi- you left a true legacy. Oh, and Danny Wright is going down too?! I hear Buerhle's experiencing velocity and movement drop off, since last last year in fact. I guess Garland is set to re-injure himself sometime during the pennant race. Sweeeeeeeet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Sox already f***ed up one HOF-caliber pitching talent in Barcelo. Now it's Rauch's turn? Unbelievable. I heard he is injured again/will never recover from labrum tear. Couple that with them screwing up both Corwin Malone and Jason Stumm; I am seriously starting to worry about Honel's progress. I mean these are the guys are suposed to make ther Sox the Insians of the 2000s...damn. Thanks Nardi- you left a true legacy. Oh, and Danny Wright is going down too?! I guess Garland is set to re-injure himself sometime during the pennant race. Sweeeeeeeet! calm down there turbo it is not uncomon to have top prospects fail, some guys just don't pan out. you are saying the guys that have failed why not go with the guys who have done good, from our system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 some guys just don't pan out Thanks for missing the point...It's not the question of "panning out"; it's a question of guys' arms and/or mechanics getting f***ed up at an incredible rate under Nardi and Co.' watch. Kip Wells and Burhle have been exceptions, but the former hated Nardi and struggled with trhe Sox (fastball at 90-92 versus 93-96 with Pirates among other things), and the latter...well, re-read my edited post. We had best arms in the majors 2-3 years ago. Now I have to watch Cubs trot out Woods, Clement, Zambrano, Prior and Cruz, knowing that Rauch, Beurhle, Wells, Malone and Barcelo would have been just as good if not better had Nardi not...you get the idea... I've been very optimistic about this team since 2000 and tihnk we will win 99 games in 2003, but this s***ty trend has GOT to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 some guys just don't pan out Thanks for missing the point...It's not the question of "panning out"; it's a question of guys' arms and/or mechanics getting f***ed up at the incredible rate under Nardi and Co.' watch. Kip Wells and Burhle have been exceptions, but the former hated Nardi and struggled with trhe Sox (fastball at 92 versus 93-96 with Pirates among other things), and the latter...well, re-read my edited post. We had best arms in the majors 2-3 years ago. Now I have to watch Cubs trot out Woods, Clement, Zambrano, Prior and Cruz, knowing that Rauch, Beurhle, Wells, Malone and Barcelo would have been just as good if not better had Nardi not...you get the idea... I've been very optimistic about this team since 2000 and tihnk we will win 99 games in 2003, but this s***ty trend has GOT to stop. Lou Piniella didn't call him the worst pitching coach ever for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 some guys just don't pan out Thanks for missing the point...It's not the question of "panning out"; it's a question of guys' arms and/or mechanics getting f***ed up at an incredible rate under Nardi and Co.' watch. Kip Wells and Burhle have been exceptions, but the former hated Nardi and struggled with trhe Sox (fastball at 90-92 versus 93-96 with Pirates among other things), and the latter...well, re-read my edited post. We had best arms in the majors 2-3 years ago. Now I have to watch Cubs trot out Woods, Clement, Zambrano, Prior and Cruz, knowing that Rauch, Beurhle, Wells, Malone and Barcelo would have been just as good if not better had Nardi not...you get the idea... I've been very optimistic about this team since 2000 and tihnk we will win 99 games in 2003, but this s***ty trend has GOT to stop. If a pitcher allows a coach to change his mechanics in a way that either injures his arm or cuts 5 MPH off of his fastball, I don't blame the coach. I blame the player. Players need to take responsibility for their own actions, and as fans, we have to accept whatever happens as a result. If they choose to take bad advice, that's their own tough luck. If they want to waste their talent and throw away a potentially successful career, more power to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Lou Piniella didn't call him the worst pitching coach ever for nothing. Lou said that? No s***! That cheap f***er Jerry cutting back on pitching coach' salary possibly led us to losing Sirotka (ace material)...Barcelo (HOF material)...Stumm (too early to tell, but people say back in 99 he was dominant in his first year in the minors)...Kip Wells (no injury, just f***ed up mechanics and mental health)...Rauch (HOF material)...Malone (dominant power lefty with 1:5 bb/k ratio before getting "help"? See Kip Wells Syndrom)...Buerhle (loss of velocity and movement since late last year...50-50 he goes down before ASB). GarLand already had a surgery and only his fluid delivery has saved him from Nardi's methods, though we'll see if he can make it through one full season before concluding anything...UNREAL. Thank god Honel is only in A-ball. It could he salvation. I won't even mention JB (All-Star before injury) and Biddle (every here knows about his nasty stuff), Ginter (Kip Wells Syndrom), Ulacia and Brian West (era in 2.00s before "mechanical problems"..list goes on. In just 2 friggin' years!!! I blame the cheap bastard JR for pressuring his personel to rush these guys (I mean out of ALL promotees, only Sirotka was over 25 and mature enough), JM for being a pus-over...as well as The Bespectale'd Toad. Players need to take responsibility for their own actions, and as fans, we have to accept whatever happens as a result. If they choose to take bad advice, that's their own tough luck. If they want to waste their talent and throw away a potentially successful career, more power to them. Nardi is that you? I thought you drank yourself to death...that sounded like a good plan. What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Nardi is that you? I thought you drank yourself to death...that sounded like a good plan. What happened? Nardi I am not. The voice of reason is who this is. If you wish to dismiss the aspect of the players' responsibility in those cases you stated, you are entitled to do so. I, however, feel that you are very wrong in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Did I read "Barcelo (HOF material)"?????? Whatever I am smoking doesn't pack that kind of a punch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 If you wish to dismiss the aspect of the players' responsibility in those cases you stated, you are entitled to do so How intellectually dishonest of you...if you look at those (quality) pitchers on case by case basis (their track-record prior, stuff, etc) and then look at how MANY of them got f***ed up...and THEN look at most OTHER teams' prospects and rookies...there will be a PATTERN emerging, supported by many opinions, including Shueler and Piniella. Just because not EVERYTHING can be blamed on the coach doesn't mean he is not responsible. I mean, your arguement can also be applied to the Little Leagues- afterall if a youngster fails because noone taught him/her proper footwork, we could blame the genetics and/or youngsters' apathy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Your arguement also applies to the Little Leagues- afterall if a youngster fails because noone taught him/her proper footwork, we could blame the genetics and youngsters' apathy...or NOT! Comparing 10 and 11 year olds playing in a league after school to grown men with families to support is completely ridiculous, and kills any credibility you may have had in this discussion. As adults, major league players have a decision to make -- take the advice of their coaches, or do it their way. Whatever decision they make, they have to live with the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Comparing 10 and 11 year olds playing in a league after school to grown men with families to support is completely ridiculous, and kills any credibility you may have had in this discussion. Whatever. Keep missing the point and arguing around the concrete examples. (Also look up "exaggeration" while you're at it) As adults, major league players have a decision to make -- take the advice of their coaches, or do it their way Have you ever played pro ball? I'd love to see you say "no, coach, I will NOT _____!". or refuse an ill-advised promotion...If you don't think prospects barely out of HS need (a lot of) guidance, I won't be the one to start convincing you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Comparing 10 and 11 year olds playing in a league after school to grown men with families to support is completely ridiculous, and kills any credibility you may have had in this discussion. Whatever. Keep missing the point and arguing around the concrete examples. (Also look up "exaggeration" while you're at it) As adults, major league players have a decision to make -- take the advice of their coaches, or do it their way Have you ever played pro ball? I'd love to see how say "no, coach, I will NOT _____!". I also want to see a pitcher refuse a promotion...if you don't think prospects barely out of HS need (a lot of) guidance, I won't be the one to start convincing you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Did I read "Barcelo (HOF material)"?????? Yep. He wasn't the key part of the White Flag deal for nothing: great poise and control for a 20yo; 95-98 mph moving fastball (which was supposed to reach triple digits in the future as doctors promissed), excellent slider and nice, improving off-speed arsenal. Huge, long fingers that would have allowed him to put freaky spin on the ball had he decided to become a truly all-around pitcher later on... He was that good of a prospect before re-injuring in 2000. I went over this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Have you ever played pro ball? I'd love to see you say "no, coach, I will NOT _____!". or refuse an ill-advised promotion...If you don't think prospects barely out of HS need (a lot of) guidance, I won't be the one to start convincing you. I have not played pro ball. However, that has nothing to do with my argument. If a person takes bad advice just because the person giving it is in a position of authority, that's tough s*** for the person taking it. And of course prospects need guidance. If Nardi is as bad as you're saying he was, perhaps these pitchers should have done their homework on the guy's past before taking his word as the gospel. Again, they failed to take responsibility for their own lives, and chose to waste away their talent. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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