Wong & Owens Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Barcelo being "amazing", but not "HOF? WTF? If he has great stuff and, more importantly, maturity, then saying "HOF ceiling" and "amazing" is appropriate. Ditto Rauch. The reaosn Wood, Cruz and Prior are great is because they are HEALTHY and our pitchers are NOT,. Now Juan Cruz has reached the "great" level. Fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I guess when Wright, Garland and Buerhle go under the knife, you'll be convinced. Except, you'll probably dismiss it with the oh-so-wise "s*** happens". Now Juan Cruz has reached the "great" level. Let's try this: if I remark "I am great" when talking about my arm health, it doesn't necessarily mean that "I am getting ready for the induction ceremony". What it does mean, however, is that health-wise I am fine, something that allows me to further showcase my talent (or lack thereof). (btw: several respected people on the Sox ESPN boards are already calling Kerry Wood and Mark Prior "great" without getting at each other's throats, and Juan Cruz has done nothing but dominate in his short ML stint. Again this is a side-issue, so it doesn't really alter my point, though your vigorous contesting of semantics is annoying) I wonder what's next for you? Are you going to debate whether or not Barcelo really did reach 97-98 on his fastball or just go straight to spelling errors? Pretty weak if you ask me. Why bother replying if you can't actually stay on the point and debate the pitchers' health/organizational screw-up issue? I have to "battle" 3-4 people as it is. Barcelo & Rauch = HOF'ers? Sirotka = Ace? Stumm and Malone = dominant JB = All-Star? You really think he ever duplicates that one half of a season? Injury or no injury? You're joking, right? Biddle = nasty stuff? In the MINORS, maybe Ginter, Ulacia, West = great minor league numbers = proves nothing = never touched by Nardi Contreras Just say you have ADD and be done with it. Your pointless (I mean, really --does it matter if Siro is a true #1 or "mere" very good #2 when talking about labrum tears and TJ's and Nardi's "methods" and ill-advised promotions?) twisting and out-of-context pasting skills are remarkable, to say nothing of your clear lack of knowledg about actual pitchers in question...Bravo, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I guess when Wright, Garland and Buerhle go under the knife, you'll be convinced. Except, you'll probably dismiss it with the oh-so-wise "s*** happens". No, but I'm sure you'll wisely blame it on a coach who's never coached them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Barcelo and Rauch, HOF-caliber prospects Who knew you would take it to mean that "HOF stuff/caliber prospect" = "HOF career". Because it's not like there is a difference between the two. No, but I'm sure you'll wisely blame it on a coach who's never coached them Nice job evading. Again, Nardi was only PART of the problem repeatedly stated throughout my posts on this thread. I admited to the players' role in their own demise LONG f***ING TIME AGO and have also criticized the whole ORGANIZATION (from JR to JM and people under their command). Game, set, match. But if you choose to not think about players on case-by-case basis and analyze the situation, instead leaning on "s*** happens" mantra and/or thinking it's all a harmless coincidence, feel free. I mean it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 The reaosn Wood, Cruz and Prior are great is because they are HEALTHY and our pitchers are NOT Let's try this: if I remark "I am great" when talking about my arm health, it doesn't necessarily mean that "I am getting ready for the induction ceremony". What it does mean, however, is that health-wise I am fine, something that allows me to further showcase my talent (or lack thereof). That's not what is being said in this sentence at all. Take this to a 5th-grade English teacher, and ask him/her what they make of it. Your inability to say what you mean, added to your blaming me for misconstruing what is simply stated there in black and white, is what's truly annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 It doesn't have to be all back&white all the time. Saying Nardi and management are f***ups doesn't mean that a) the former is responsible for EVERY single injury (though enough s*** happened under his watch as most intelligent posters would agree. Players like Malone and Stumm are responsibilty of minor league personel, not that it it somehow disqualifies my "they were mishandled" point, mind you) and mechanical/mental problems, nor b] that the latter hasn't made any positive decisions, etc. I guess it's all in the percentages and case-by-case basis analysis is absolutely required...Having said that, I would have loved to see Sirotka, Rauch, Barcelo and Kip back/uninjured. I only ask for 4- y'all can have Stumm, Biddle, Ginter, Kane, Fogg, etc If it was up to numbers, then how come Liefer sucked. How come Harris hasn't turned into a stud already. Look at the hitters, plenty hit incredibly well, but never amount to a hill of beans at the major league level. 1. Hitters ain't pitchers, esp. when it comes to instruction/promotion dynamic and injury-related issues. Not even close and you know it. Besides, I only mentioned Crede and a few others to prove that some fans are too impatient/uninformed as to condemn everything and everybody if they don't produce immediately. It's wasn't a main arguement, but I got sucked into it so I had to mention it. (BTW since you asked, I think Leifer will do well with Expos and that Harris is indeed a AAAA/utility type player- not that his AA/AAA were all that great to begin with, nor did I or any scouts ever consider him a can't miss mofo. If Sox MANAGEMENT did, don;t blame me for it; then it only strenghtens my orginal point.) 2. You are not reading my posts, something that is overwhelmingly obvious because if yo did you would see that mentioning 12-15 players out of hundreds in our organization does NOT a homer make. I also made several qualifiers, modifiers to most posts because people kept bugging me with rhetorical detours. 3. What's your point? I hope it's not "prospects are prospects, minor league numbers don't necesarily translate into major league stats, scouts often make mistakes and s*** happens" because that was SUCH an obvious thing from the get go that I didn;t even feel the need to mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 This is the stupidest "debate" I've seen to-date on this board. The discussion about tattoos, piercings, and nicotine addiction is IMO much more relevant. It's at least entertaining. This is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Brando, I'm not getting at anyones throat in this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 The discussion about tattoos, piercings, and nicotine addiction is IMO much more relevant. Now that Wright may be facing surgery, this discussion is getting more irrelevant by the day. In fact, the only way it could more pointless if Burhle and Garland complain of "soreness"/get "tired arm" by July... To your credit, you did everything you could to save this topic. And then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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