babybearhater Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 This is just a thought. But through watching the past few pitching prospects, Koch, Jose, Freddy, come to the sox and then perform not how they were expected. As well as seeing Garland, who obviously has some talents not pitch well. I think that maybe the problem with the pitching woes could be solved in house....Possibly fire Don Cooper. I know he is popular, and a really good guy, but this might be the time to see what someone else can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I wouldn't mind firing him one bit. Bring in Steve Stone....And then trade Judy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I wouldn't mind firing him one bit. Bring in Steve Stone....And then trade Judy. I like the way you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I wouldn't mind firing him one bit. Bring in Steve Stone....And then trade Judy. You took the words right out of my mouth. If Stone somehow becomes our pitching coach, we make a huge improvement right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR THE LAST 6 MOUNTHS!!!!!! I dont know where you would dig up the stats, but I would like to see how many runs are pitchers gave up in the 1st inning. I really think something was wrong in the bullpen before the games with pitcher preperation. We saw time after time are pitchers give up 3 runs in the 1st, then come out the rest of the game pitching fine. I know sometimes that happens, but it seemed to happen WAY TO MUCH. Coop needs to go!!!!!!!!! We know, We know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 i think not only is this KW's last chance but its prob coopers last chance as well.... and possibly ozzie's last chance too even though it shouldnt be... another losing season and all 3 of them can be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 I dont agree with the Ozzie situation, but as far as the other two go, i agree. I think that alot of the arms we have had, should have performed better in the time that we have had them. It seems like we are always waiting for that guy to just turn the corner, and they never do. We are consistantly scoring almost the most runs in the league like the third season in a row, yet cant keep the opposing teams from winning. Not to harp on a fluke situation, but did anyone seem Esteban in the playoffs??? He had a new windup, new set position and a new arm angle, and was consistantly throwing accuratly, and with 5 more MPH than when with us this season. When he left the sox he was losing mph and losing accuracy as well as movement. It look the yankees less than a month to figure out his problems and correct them in time for the playoffs. Yet it took COOP almost half the season to make us get rid of him. Not that I dont like the trade, but seeing the result of actual coaching, it amazed me why he never tried that before. Please, get rid of COOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 maybe we should bring up the pitching coach from winstom-salem... he sure got b-mac and sean tracey on a hot streak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 maybe we should bring up the pitching coach from winstom-salem... he sure got b-mac and sean tracey on a hot streak Honestly, even if he is brought in for just a special consultant role, that would help at least a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I think revisionist history is being used to say that the Yanks fixed Loaiza, he was awful with them. I think we give Coop this year to see if he can turn Contreras and Garland around and then we move from there. I can't see KW getting fired even if the team only wins 75-80 games. I think his leash is a tad longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I think revisionist history is being used to say that the Yanks fixed Loaiza, he was awful with them. I think we give Coop this year to see if he can turn Contreras and Garland around and then we move from there. I can't see KW getting fired even if the team only wins 75-80 games. I think his leash is a tad longer. This is kw's last year imo, it's either playoffs or he gawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I'm so sick of this trade Garland bulls***. Believe it or not having a solid proven 12 game winner is worth the 3 mil he will be being paid. You people will be the first one b****ing when he wins 20 games and becomes a superstar in some pitchers park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I'm so sick of this trade Garland bulls***. Believe it or not having a solid proven 12 game winner is worth the 3 mil he will be being paid. You people will be the first one b****ing when he wins 20 games and becomes a superstar in some pitchers park. umm isnt the whole point of the thread is not blaming garland but blaming our pitching coach cooper... I swear first aaron rowand obsession now garland you just seem to pick random guys and go crazy over them..... whats really funny is you hate borchard but until this year what had rowand done more then him and they both have the same work ethic so it really doesnt make much sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 umm isnt the whole point of the thread is not blaming garland but blaming our pitching coach cooper... I swear first aaron rowand obsession now garland you just seem to pick random guys and go crazy over them..... whats really funny is you hate borchard but until this year what had rowand done more then him and they both have the same work ethic so it really doesnt make much sense Coming into this year rowand was a career .283 hitter. That is what he has done more than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I'm so sick of this trade Garland bulls***. Believe it or not having a solid proven 12 game winner is worth the 3 mil he will be being paid. You people will be the first one b****ing when he wins 20 games and becomes a superstar in some pitchers park. Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Hawk Harrelson to Soxtalk!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Hawk Harrelson to Soxtalk!!!! That was good, damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm so sick of this trade Garland bulls***. Believe it or not having a solid proven 12 game winner is worth the 3 mil he will be being paid. You people will be the first one b****ing when he wins 20 games and becomes a superstar in some pitchers park. worth the 3 million dollars he is being paid???? hmmm if I could list 5 pitchers who won more games with a better ERA and are getting paid less, would that maybe make your comment look as terrrible as it is....I think so Zambrano-450k 16-8 2.75 Marquis- 525k 15-7 3.71 Suppan 1 mill 16-9 4.16 Westbrook- 925k 14-9 3.38 Carpenter- 500k 15-5 3.46 I could keep going if you want. He is pretty terrible for a 1-4 starter, and overpaid for a fifth starter OUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 He is pretty terrible for a 1-4 starter, and overpaid for a fifth starter OUT I disagree, he was better then most 4th starters this year and even comparable to some 3 starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm not sure if Cooper is responsible for the Sox pitching struggles this year, if you all can remember in April and May, the Sox were getting some attention for having four outstanding starting pitchers with pretty damn good numbers....that is until June hit. Here are the Home/Road E.R.A.'s for our starting pitchers. Besides Contreras there is a significant difference between Home and Road E.R.A.'s The Cell Away Buehrle 5.22 2.63 Garcia 5.37 3.25 Contreras 4.13 6.21 Garland 5.27 4.61 Loaiza 5.94 3.80 Schow 5.98 5.21 Based on these numbers, I have to say I can't blame Coop completely for the Sox struggles..however I think it will be interesting to see early on this season how our starters perform under Coop. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I disagree, he was better then most 4th starters this year and even comparable to some 3 starters. and, examples of these 3 million dollar 3rd starters that he compares to??????????? Back it up, or its just your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm not sure if Cooper is responsible for the Sox pitching struggles this year, if you all can remember in April and May, the Sox were getting some attention for having four outstanding starting pitchers with pretty damn good numbers....that is until June hit. Here are the Home/Road E.R.A.'s for our starting pitchers. Besides Contreras there is a significant difference between Home and Road E.R.A.'s The Cell Away Buehrle 5.22 2.63 Garcia 5.37 3.25 Contreras 4.13 6.21 Garland 5.27 4.61 Loaiza 5.94 3.80 Schow 5.98 5.21 Based on these numbers, I have to say I can't blame Coop completely for the Sox struggles..however I think it will be interesting to see early on this season how our starters perform under Coop. CWSOX45 BTW, those numbers are all under COOP regardless or where they pitched. How about some away from coop/under COOP numbers, because if thats what we are comparing, your examples dont mean a thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 and, examples of these 3 million dollar 3rd starters that he compares to??????????? Back it up, or its just your opinion I'm way to lazy to pull up the stats right now. It's been discussed before, I can't find the thread though. Ask wite I'm sure he can find it, I'm pretty sure he's the one who pulled up all the stats last time. Sorry for putting the burden on you wite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 BTW, those numbers are all under COOP regardless or where they pitched. How about some away from coop/under COOP numbers, because if thats what we are comparing, your examples dont mean a thing Away from Coop? What do you want me to go back when we still had Nardi as pitching coach? That stat you proposed is meaningless because we didn't even have most of the same pitchers under Nardi as we did Coop besides Buehrle and Garland. Now if you're looking for combined team E.R.A., I'm sure that could be found. However when I went to MLB.com the computer was not able to compute the teams team stats from 2003 even. I still don't think Coop deserves to be fired, not yet anyway. I know most are upset at Coop because of the way our young pitchers were handled when it was their turn to start in that 5th spot. (Cotts, Rauch, Diaz, Munoz), but that decision was not Coops alone. My example I used proved that U.S. Cellular Field is a hitters park, those high ERA's prove it obviously, and so does the fact that there were more home runs at the Cell than at Coors Field this year. If the only reason people why people want Cooper canned is because of high E.R.A.'s at home, than they really ought to think more logically. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm way to lazy to pull up the stats right now. It's been discussed before, I can't find the thread though. Ask wite I'm sure he can find it, I'm pretty sure he's the one who pulled up all the stats last time. Sorry for putting the burden on you wite. I know me, santo=dorf and someone else had a list of over like 40-45 3,4, and 5th starters he is better than. I would search for it but my search no longer works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.