redandwhite Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basebal...sports-baseball Chicago has offered first baseman Paul Konerko, pitcher Jon Garland and prospects for Diamondbacks ace Randy Johnson, the Dayton (Ohio) Daily News reported. The Yankees are believed to be interested in Johnson, too, but were rebuffed when they offered catcher Jorge Posada, who is owed $33 million over the next four years. What a horrible trade in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 It could be worse I guess... But I think if they do that trade we would be looking at signing another FA pitcher to fill the 4th or 5th slot in the rotaton. So if that is legit we will have to wait and see what is anything the sox do to fill that last slot in the rotation. Regardless I would be happy to have Randy here on the southside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT! Johnson-Garcia-Buehrle is probably the best 1-3 punch in the AL if one of the big 3 out in Oakland gets traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basebal...sports-baseball What a horrible trade in my opinion. Wtf, we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 Wtf, we agree. You don't trade a way a good portion of your 2005 ball club and beyond for a year with Randy Johnson. You just don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT!DO IT! Johnson-Garcia-Buehrle is probably the best 1-3 punch in the AL if one of the big 3 out in Oakland gets traded. My only fear with this trade is that we would be right back to the same s*** with no reliable 5th starter...That being said I would still do this trade in a heart beat without a second thought as long as we can get an extension on Randys contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 My only fear with this trade is that we would be right back to the same s*** with no reliable 5th starter...That being said I would still do this trade in a heart beat without a second thought as long as we can get an extension on Randys contract. An extension on Randy's contract!? The guy's 41 years old. I'm not saying he can't pitch until hes 43-44, but how many more years does Randy have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 An extension on Randy's contract!? The guy's 41 years old. I'm not saying he can't pitch until hes 43-44, but how many more years does Randy have. I think he has 2 maybe 3 more years left in the tank jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I can't believe some of you would still be crying about the fifth starter if we got RJ. Here's the potential of two staffs: Johnson (20-22 Wins) Buehrle (18-20 Wins) Garcia (16-18 Wins) Contreras (12-15 Wins) Your momma/Grilli/Diaz (4-6 Wins) 70-81 wins Buehrle (18-20 Wins) Garcia (16-18 Wins) FA, no guarantee of signing anyone notable (unknown) Contreras (12-15 Wins) Garland (11-14 Wins) 57-67 So unless we sign a FA pitcher who'll win 13-14 games for the Sox in 2005, I really don't see why people should b**** about the 5th starter's spot if we get RJ. I also find it hard to believe that KW would make this trade without getting some compensation from Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I would not cry about this trade if we got drew. Otherwise it is too much imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 You don't trade a way a good portion of your 2005 ball club and beyond for a year with Randy Johnson. You just don't. What are you talking about? Konerko is a FA after the 2005 season. Garland has shown no progress. Age can't be used to defend this guy anymore. He is a veteran in regards to experience. It depends on the prospects involved, but if none of the big prospects are involved(Anderson, Sweeney, McCarthy, Fields), than I would do this trade and I don't see how the Sox are morgaging the future. This is coming from a guy that has been against a trade for Johnson, but I think that I might do this deal if I were the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 The unknown can be accountable for atleast 8-10 wins, so lets say this deal gives us another 3 wins according to your mindset. Excellent three extra wins out of the starting rotation while losing Konerko and prospects on top of Garland. Its a horrible deal, open your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 What are you talking about? Konerko is a FA after the 2005 season. Garland has shown no progress. Age can't be used to defend this guy anymore. He is a veteran in regards to experience. It depends on the prospects involved, but if none of the big prospects are involved(Anderson, Sweeney, McCarthy, Fields), than I would do this trade and I don't see how the Sox are morgaging the future. This is coming from a guy that has been against a trade for Johnson, but I think that I might do this deal if I were the Sox. Konerko being a free agent, and Garland showing no improvement is a non-issue in all of this because Randy Johnson is going to either die, retire, or become a free agent after the 2005 season aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Wouldnt be so bad if the d-backs throw in Valverde in that trade he's a stud who would be our closers within the next few years...Not that they would throw him in but hell doesnt hurt to dream does it!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 The unknown can be accountable for atleast 8-10 wins, so lets say this deal gives us another 3 wins according to your mindset. Excellent three extra wins out of the starting rotation while losing Konerko and prospects on top of Garland. Its a horrible deal, open your eyes. Randy Johnson will put asses in the seats. A rotation for a short series that contains Johnson, Garcia, and Buehrle is NASTY! The Sox haven't signed a big name FA since 1996. What makes you think JR will give out yet another multi-year deal to a free agent pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Konerko being a free agent, and Garland showing no improvement is a non-issue in all of this because Randy Johnson is going to either die, retire, or become a free agent after the 2005 season aswell. Garland will be a FA after 2005 correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 It might not be a bad trade if the prospects aren't from the best the Sox have (McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney, etc.) I think Garland is a free agent after next year (isn't he?). If so, that's 2 expiring contracts for one more expensive one. I don't think the Sox would re-sign Konerko or Garland. I'd say if the Sox are still willing to spend some money and get another SP and a RP, that it's not a bad trade But, I have a feeling Anderson would be included. He went to ASU (I think) and plays CF which is a position the DBacks need. I think that would be overpaying for 1 year of Johnson. And I have to think McCarthy is possibly included as well (or instead of Anderson), since AZ would want young pitching. It is a huge risk (which seems to be Williams style). I'm sure people will post about how Johnson has shown no signs of slowing down, etc. But he's 41, has his knee shot up before each game, and had a bad 2003 ( 4.26 ERA I think). And, if his salary stops the Sox from filling any other holes, it's a bad trade. Just looking at wins, swapping Garland for Johnson could pick up maybe 10 wins (?), being really optimistic ans assuming the offense isn't wretched. That alone may not be enough to win the division. I think just getting a competent 5th starter might pick up that many and still allow other holes to be filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 I also think it's a bit too much to give for one player, especially depending on the number and quality of prospects involved. Johnson is Arizona's last really big bargaining chip, so I think they may to restock their minors at the Sox's expense. I hope KW doesn't fall for it. RJ's got too many miles on him to make this trade - I can just see it now....."Johnson to DL with back/elbow/shoulder injury"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Randy Johnson will put asses in the seats. A rotation for a short series that contains Johnson, Garcia, and Buehrle is NASTY! The Sox haven't signed a big name FA since 1996. What makes you think JR will give out yet another multi-year deal to a free agent pitcher? You add Johnson and subtract Garland, we're stuck with a 4 man rotation. You don't seriously want Grilli or Diaz in that position of 5th starter at the start of 2005 again do you? Frankly if you add Odalis Perez or Jon Lieber instead as the 3rd starter for anywhere b/w $5 and $7 mill, you can trade Konerko in a better deal that will suit our needs, and keep Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Make the trade. Oh please make the trade. Give up one of the prospects, make the trade. Oh Please KW, make the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 It might not be a bad trade if the prospects aren't from the best the Sox have (McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney, etc.) I think Garland is a free agent after next year (isn't he?). If so, that's 2 expiring contracts for one more expensive one. I don't think the Sox would re-sign Konerko or Garland. I'd say if the Sox are still willing to spend some money and get another SP and a RP, that it's not a bad trade But, I have a feeling Anderson would be included. He went to ASU (I think) and plays CF which is a position the DBacks need. I think that would be overpaying for 1 year of Johnson. And I have to think McCarthy is possibly included as well (or instead of Anderson), since AZ would want young pitching. It is a huge risk (which seems to be Williams style). I'm sure people will post about how Johnson has shown no signs of slowing down, etc. But he's 41, has his knee shot up before each game, and had a bad 2003 ( 4.26 ERA I think). And, if his salary stops the Sox from filling any other holes, it's a bad trade. Just looking at wins, swapping Garland for Johnson could pick up maybe 10 wins (?), being really optimistic ans assuming the offense isn't wretched. That alone may not be enough to win the division. I think just getting a competent 5th starter might pick up that many and still allow other holes to be filled. Well said. As much as I want RJ to be on the Sox, that type of deal would make me balk. Konerko and Garland aren't tremendously useful to the Dbacks by themselves. I remember reading that they believe they can compete next year -- it's a nice thing to say in the papers, but do they really believe that? It seems like they demand pieces to make them immediately competitive, and pieces for 2006 and beyond, and noone has been quite willing to meet that price. I hope we're not the first. I don't want to sound like I'm not willing to part with anyone. I can even accept Anderson being dealt, and honestly I can't see how Arizona wouldn't make him the dealbreaker. But giving up your top position prospect & your top pitching prospect & your starting 1b & a young #5 starter...wow, that's a big dent in a ballclub. I know, I know, it's all just speculation at this point. But the unnamed prospects are really the most interesting part of the deal, since you'd think that's what the Dbacks would be most keen on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Make the trade. Oh please make the trade. Give up one of the prospects, make the trade. Oh Please KW, make the trade. You sound just like Kenny Williams himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 You add Johnson and subtract Garland, we're stuck with a 4 man rotation. You don't seriously want Grilli or Diaz in that position of 5th starter at the start of 2005 again do you? Frankly if you add Odalis Perez or Jon Lieber instead as the 3rd starter for anywhere b/w $5 and $7 mill, you can trade Konerko in a better deal that will suit our needs, and keep Garland. I've already posted the number of win each pitcher can potentially win. If Grilli or Diaz could win just 4-6 games, and Johnson could win 20-22, a free agent pitcher would have to win 13-14 games just to match that total. I'm not convinced that this organization will give a FA pitcher a Multiyear deal. I would like to see Odalis Perez play for the Sox, but he's not going to sign a one year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Konerko being a free agent, and Garland showing no improvement is a non-issue in all of this because Randy Johnson is going to either die, retire, or become a free agent after the 2005 season aswell. You complained that the Sox would be trading a good portion of their 2005 roster and beyond, yet they only trade 2 players from their 2005 roster(and receive a huge upgrade at one of the positions). So let me see if I get this math right, 2-1=1 and 1=a good portion of the 2005 roster. Is that correct? And beyond? Konerko is a FA beyond 2005. Garland = a mid-high 4 ERA bottom of the rotation starter and with him being arbitration eligiblable he will probably be making 4M+ after 2005. Is it that hard to find a mid-high 4 ERA starter for 4+M? Finally, we have no clue what kind of prospects were offered, so don't pretend that we traded the farm as well. The Sox wouldn't be morgaging the future, so I don't know what you are complaining about. It comes down to Johnson/Gload versus Garland/Konerko, and I would take my chances with the 1st option, because pitching is much more valuable(see where the Sox 200+ HR's got them this past season). Like I said, I was against trading for Johnson, but I would do this trade as long as none of the top prospects were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 You sound just like Kenny Williams himself. I know, I do sound like him. But, I just feel like rebuilding is coming in 2006 and beyond. I really think The Sox need to go for it all this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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