santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I was basically just saying that I'd rather give up Lee and Konerko for RJ rather then Garland and Konerko. If I had it my way...neither package would be going to Arizona for RJ, unless we could bring in a solid replacement for Garland, because I do not want a black hole of a #5 spot in the rotation again. Wite, getting RJ improves the overall rotation more than just signing a Free agent. Which group is more likely to give you more quality starts? Johnson, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Diaz/Grilli/ST invitee or Buehrle, Garcia, FA signing, Contreras, Garland? Basically it's a case of Johnson vs. Garland and a FA that you actually think the Sox will try and sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 Which group is more likely to give you more quality starts? Johnson, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Diaz/Grilli/ST invitee or Buehrle, Garcia, FA signing, Contreras, Garland? No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Option B will/would put up more quality starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Nope, if anyone from california reads this i am sure they can confirm it. I know this because i watch alot of their games on mlb extra innings. He was still able to get it 95-96 on a rather consistent basis. He was flat filthy when he came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Option B will/would put up more quality starts. Who's your free agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Option B will/would put up more quality starts. are you retarded????? Honestly, how can you argue for a rotation with the best pitcher in this decade being worse than a rotation with John Garland. Come on man, its time to give up on this argument and move on....dont worry, we can look the other way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 are you retarded????? Honestly, how can you argue for a rotation with the best pitcher in this decade being worse than a rotation with John Garland. Come on man, its time to give up on this argument and move on....dont worry, we can look the other way In the last decade pedro has been better, then it is randy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 To answer your question, I've been following the White Sox for the past 5 years and intensely for the last 3. I know the trends that JR seems to have, and I know that the White Sox can't just go out and sign guys like a defending World Champion in a city like Boston. I know that, I know that, I know that. The fact of the matter is that the White Sox shouldn't make a trade for Randy Johnson for the sake of getting the name and in a sense gaining the edge over the Cubs. I would rather do that by winning baseball games, which is obtainable by making financially smart signings and trades. I just want to note that I am all for trading Paul Konerko solely based on the fact that he has maxed out his potential, it is Jon Garland who I do not want to trade. Acquiring Johnson and giving up Garland or not fixing that fifth starter problem is exactly what each and everyone of you were throwing up about just a few weeks ago. My final point is, you don't have a player making a fourth of your payroll, A. And B. Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland/FA is a very capable playoff rotation and a much better regular season rotation. 5 years???? wow that must be like a lilfetime to you!!!!!! Putting RJ on this team makes our 1-3 pitchers the best in the league, bar none, no arguments about it. This would win 20 more games for us. This would not only let us compete in our own weak division, but would help out on the terrible west coast trips that we have been taking when our bullpen gets tired, and the offense falls asleep. We consistantly score more runs than the team in our division, as well as most in the AL, yet cant keep anyone from scoring against us. This trade would acomplish two things--make our pitching dominant, and improve our defense. Not only that but where Gload lacks in HR's and fireworks, he makes up for in OBP, as well as less DP's. I know some of the teams that the sox have put together in the last 10 years may have not been seen by someone who just began to watch the sox, but this staff would be the best I've ever seen in black, blue, red, and whatever colors they want to wear, I love this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxman352000 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Pardon me while I throw up. Me too :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 2004 quality starts: Johnson: 26 Buehrle: 23 Garcia: 18 Garland:14 Contreras: 13 Diaz: 2 (didn't pitch entire season) My rotation has us with 82 QS despite the limited time Diaz has pitched. Your rotation would need 14 starts from a free agent to match that. Odalis Perez: 21 (my choice if we don't get RJ) Russ Ortiz: 20 Eric Milton: 18 I think the reason why these guys have more or as many quality starts as Garcia, Contreras, and Garland is due to USCF. 6 IP and 3 ER was a tought task at USCF in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 In the last decade pedro has been better, then it is randy. I dont know if I agree with that RJ 3.19 2.48 3.67 2.28 4.33 1.28 3.28 2.49 2.64 2.49 2.32 4.26 2.60 197 wins 6 seasons with over 300 k's and 3 with over 290 516 walks Pedro 3.42 3.51 3.70 1.90 2.89 2.07 1.74 2.39 2.26 2.22 3.90 172 wins 2 seasons with over 300 k's 4 under 200 k's 557 walks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 woops a few too many numbers for randy, but you get the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I dont know if I agree with that RJ 3.19 2.48 3.67 2.28 4.33 1.28 3.28 2.49 2.64 2.49 2.32 4.26 2.60 197 wins 6 seasons with over 300 k's and 3 with over 290 516 walks Pedro 3.42 3.51 3.70 1.90 2.89 2.07 1.74 2.39 2.26 2.22 3.90 172 wins 2 seasons with over 300 k's 4 under 200 k's 557 walks He never had a 1.28 era in a year, that year he had an era of 3.28. Randy has been more dominating yes, but not better overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 are you retarded????? Honestly, how can you argue for a rotation with the best pitcher in this decade being worse than a rotation with John Garland. Come on man, its time to give up on this argument and move on....dont worry, we can look the other way Having five good starters will have more quality starts compared to having three good starters, one excellent starter, and one terrible starter. ..and I thought some others on this board were the ones born with too many chromosomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm willing to bet that... RJ, MB, FG, JC, FD compile more QS than OP, MB, FG, JC, JG. That's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 5 years???? wow that must be like a lilfetime to you!!!!!! Putting RJ on this team makes our 1-3 pitchers the best in the league, bar none, no arguments about it. This would win 20 more games for us. This would not only let us compete in our own weak division, but would help out on the terrible west coast trips that we have been taking when our bullpen gets tired, and the offense falls asleep. We consistantly score more runs than the team in our division, as well as most in the AL, yet cant keep anyone from scoring against us. This trade would acomplish two things--make our pitching dominant, and improve our defense. Not only that but where Gload lacks in HR's and fireworks, he makes up for in OBP, as well as less DP's. I know some of the teams that the sox have put together in the last 10 years may have not been seen by someone who just began to watch the sox, but this staff would be the best I've ever seen in black, blue, red, and whatever colors they want to wear, I love this Adding Randy Johnson and either Diaz or Grilli while subtracting Garland and a free agent will equal out to 20 more wins? Not a chance. Forget the weak division, the Tigers will be hard after some players, the Indians will be right in the thick of things and the Twins are the Twins. Using the weak division as an excuse no longer applies. You subtract the two most productive players on the team in Konerko and Ordonez and the White Sox are in the same boat as they were in last year after Thomas and Ordonez went down, which is a mediocre offensively. A mediocre offense, a bad bench, a pretty good rotation and a bad bullpen makes this team a World Series contender? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I'm willing to bet that... RJ, MB, FG, JC, FD compile more QS than OP, MB, FG, JC, JG. That's just my opinion. This is America, your entitled to your opinion and your entitled to not be bashed for it. I disagree, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This is America, your entitled to your opinion and your entitled to not be bashed for it. I disagree, thats all. Thank you, I wasn't trying to argue with you I was just getting my opinion out there. It's all very hypothetical anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Forget the weak division, the Tigers will be hard after some players, the Indians will be right in the thick of things and the Twins are the Twins. Using the weak division as an excuse no longer applies. With the exception of Detroit, Randy Johnson has dominated the AL Central teams. I don't think those kids in Detroit want to see a 98MPH fastball or his killer slider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 With the exception of Detroit, Randy Johnson has dominated the AL Central teams. I don't think those kids in Detroit want to see a 98MPH fastball or his killer slider. Those kids in Detroit will love teeing off on Grilli just as much as they get shutdown by Johnson, and they'll also love playing a depleted offense with no depth, and a bullpen which is one of the worst in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 and a bullpen which is one of the worst in the league. Closer with 1 blown save A premier LH SU Politte who is Top 30 in holds Cotts who is one of the top in runners inherited stranded That's not one of the worst in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 With the exception of Detroit, Randy Johnson has dominated the AL Central teams. I don't think those kids in Detroit want to see a 98MPH fastball or his killer slider. Also. Enough with this dominating the AL Central dog s***. Who cares what he did against the 1998 Kansas City Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I wouldn't worry about bullpen depth so much when you have Buehrle and Johnson going 7-8 strong a majority of their outings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 Closer with 1 blown save A premier LH SU Politte who is Top 30 in holds Cotts who is one of the top in runners inherited stranded That's not one of the worst in the league. Shingo could very well be quote on quote, figured out, this upcoming season. He will still be a very effective reliever, but if your relying on him to be like a Kazuhiro Sasaki, your dreaming. Marte, I love. He's everything you want in a southpaw reliever. Politte... I liked the pick-up last offseason, but if your going to base your stats solely on last season you could look at his 1.44 WHIP and 4.38 ERA to show just how ineffective he was at times. He's as inconsistent as a reliever will get, not exactly someone I'd rely on in the 8th inning. Cotts... eh.. He could improve, but from what I saw this season he's nothing but an average ballplayer. The bullpen might not be one of the worst in the league, but with the one currently laid out if an RJ deal is made, its one of the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I wouldn't worry about bullpen depth so much when you have Buehrle and Johnson going 7-8 strong a majority of their outings. and what happens the other 3 days? Your going to be relying on Neal Cotts, Jon Adkins and Cliff Politte to get the job done? :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Also. Enough with this dominating the AL Central dog s***. Who cares what he did against the 1998 Kansas City Royals. You're right, he's actually put up much better numbers since 1999. Did you see his outing against the Twins last year? 9IP, 5H, 1 ER, 10 K's. But I'm sure a Red Sox fan could care less about his outing against the Twins last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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