santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 If Kenny pulls the trigger on a trade for Kendall, I really hope that he has Pitt eat 3-4 million. IIRC, at the end of Kendall's contract, he's making right around 12 million -- and while Kendall is a solid players, he's not a 12 million dollar player. I'd tell you what I would do... Kendall + Reliever (Gonzalez would be real nice, but probably a dream) for Konerko + Low level prospect. Maybe it's a dream (the above trade), but what do you guys think? f*** no. IMO, you shouldn't pay a catcher that kind of money. We're on a mid level payroll and it's stupid to throw even $8 million for each of the next 3 years just because the guy has an OBP near .400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Jason Kendall is probably the 2nd or 3rd best hitting catcher in the game today. Consistently has an OBP in the .380-.400 neighborhood. If we could trade for him, that would be awesome, regardless of what happens to him after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Most every Kendall deal you hear about has had the Pirates taking on anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of his salary, EXCEPT when the Dodgers tried to take on Kendall's whole salary but would hav eneeded Oliver Perez to entice them. I don't think they will be willing to go in that direction. I definitely could see Jurassic being sent back in the deal along with cash coming our way. I love the idea of him playing here. He can even leadoff. As for Jose to Boston, I buy it. His OBP stinks but he slugs and these money-ball statheads feel he is very underrated defensively. I don't really buy that, but his range and zone, etc are usually in the top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 f*** no. IMO, you shouldn't pay a catcher that kind of money. You wouldn't pay ivan rodriguez 8 million a year, a healthy ivan rodriguez that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Jason Kendall is probably the 2nd or 3rd best hitting catcher in the game today. Consistently has an OBP in the .380-.400 neighborhood. If we could trade for him, that would be awesome, regardless of what happens to him after that. Having Kendall and Vizquel at the top of the order would be something special. All these rumors are making my head spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 You wouldn't pay ivan rodriguez 8 million a year, a healthy ivan rodriguez that is? Not if I have Frank Thomas on my team. If I didn't have a DH, I would sign I-Rod. I really don't see what the big deal is with Kendall. His contract is HUGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Jason Kendall 2002: $6.0M (+$4.0M signing bonus, half deferred without interest) 2003: $8.0M 2004: $8.0M 2005: $10.0M 2006: $11.0M 2007: $13.0M -$0.5M each year deferred with interest -Includes complete no-trade clause -Possible $475K each year in award bonuses (added to next year's salary) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Jason Kendall 2002: $6.0M (+$4.0M signing bonus, half deferred without interest) 2003: $8.0M 2004: $8.0M 2005: $10.0M 2006: $11.0M 2007: $13.0M -$0.5M each year deferred with interest -Includes complete no-trade clause -Possible $475K each year in award bonuses (added to next year's salary) Ouch babe. Pirates would have to eat 1/2 of that IMO. He'd be a good addition, moving Davis to the #2 slot and Burke to the 25th man role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Ouch babe. Pirates would have to eat 1/2 of that IMO. He'd be a good addition, moving Davis to the #2 slot and Burke to the 25th man role. IMO he sends Davis packing.... That's getting ahead of ourselves though... I think he'll end up in SD or LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 If Dye would come cheap, I'd definitely go for him. IMHO, he'd replace Paul Konerko very nicely (offensive production wise), and I think he'd really tee off here at the Cell... Kendall, I like, if they eat a lot of his salary from the backend of that ridiculous contract. Plus Dye still has a good outfield arm. I think Dye, after finally having a healthy season and getting himself back in gear could very well explode next year. Could be a very good value pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Who do the Sox trade in a deal for Kendall? I would assume they would still need to rid themselves of a heavy contract even if Pitt. pays for some of Kendall's contract. I would love to have Kendall. Get Omar too and that is a nice top of the order. I'd guess you could unload Everett's contract and take Kendall and hope to convince the Pirates to pay a little more of Kendall's salary on top of that. Heck, Kendall and Omar at the top of the order would be a hell of an upgrade over last years top of the lineup. Add Dye at the right price (obviously the Sox dump one of Konerko/Lee) and find a way to get yourself a good starter and you got yourself a good off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Well either they better be kicking in Oliver Perez, or the Pirates better be kicking in some cash.... Jermaine Dye, no thanks. You know that's just silly. We could toss some dead cash back at them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Pittsburgh may want to dump Kendall's contract but it's a safe bet they'll get some good talent for him. He is very popular in Pittsburgh and they need to sell tickets. If they just dump him it may cost them more in PR and lost ticket sales than what they save on the contract. Everett alone wouldn't do it, we'd have to give them more, even if we (or any other team) picks up a bunch of the contract. I still expect the first move to be pitching related. Williams said all along he wanted to get some of the pitching taken care of, then focus on other stuff. Plus, the arbitration date and non-tender date are a ways away. It wouldn't surprise me to see them sign one free agent between now and the arbitration date, and then do a couple of moves in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Pittsburgh may want to dump Kendall's contract but it's a safe bet they'll get some good talent for him. He is very popular in Pittsburgh and they need to sell tickets. If they just dump him it may cost them more in PR and lost ticket sales than what they save on the contract. Everett alone wouldn't do it, we'd have to give them more, even if we (or any other team) picks up a bunch of the contract. I still expect the first move to be pitching related. Williams said all along he wanted to get some of the pitching taken care of, then focus on other stuff. Plus, the arbitration date and non-tender date are a ways away. It wouldn't surprise me to see them sign one free agent between now and the arbitration date, and then do a couple of moves in January. Well heres something I highly doubt would happen, but I'll throw it out there anyway. What if the Sox just pawned Thomas/Everett off for Kendall and the Pirates paid a good portion of the final few years of Kendalls contract. Basically the Sox give up two bad contracts, who could potentially be produtive players and get Kendall and some cash back. Obviously when Thomas is healthy he's still productive, but I think we all have doubts whether Thomas will finish his career in Chicago (personally I think this could be it). This then gives the Sox some options and you can keep Lee/Konerko. I don't know what you guys would rather do, but I think I'd rather keep Lee and Konerko then have Thomas and one of the others, soley because the other two haven't been health issues. The Sox can then find a left handed bat to go in between, stick Kendall and Vizquel at the top of the order, use Konerko/Gload as a combo 1st/DH and pick up Dye or something along those lines. And of course pick up some pitching, maybe offer up some of our best prospects for one of the big 3 or just go the FA route and make a heavy push for someone like Pavano or Clement. Anyway....just think for a second and like I said, this won't happen: Kendall Vizquel Lee Konerko - DH/1b Dye - RF Gload - 1b/DH Rowand - CF Crede Uribe/Harris Another possibility is the Sox then make a push to maybe sign someone like Delgado to DH and keep Gload as a big time bench player. Kendall Vizquel Lee Delgado Konerko Dye Rowand Crede Uribe/Harris Only real flaw is the back part of the lineup is righty dominate. This of course increases payroll, but at the same time, the Sox would have a net savings from the Everett/Thomas deal for Kendall (at least this year) which would basically give them enough to sign Dye for 3 mill or so and then Delgado at maybe 6 or 7 mill. So basically they are adding Delgado this year. You then have Vizquel's payroll added and then maybe 6-10 set aside for pitching. Who knows, maybe payroll is going to be higher then we expect. Anyway, doubt any of this crap happens, but I wouldn't necessarily be against a Thomas/Everett for Kendall deal if you get Pitt to pick up some of his final years of the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Interesting thoughts, but the reality is Thomas is going nowhere until the end of '05 at least. He has 10/5 rights. Re: Kendall, think in terms of some young talent going Pittsburghs way, with them adding a player this way, plus eating some of the contract. That's IF this would happen ... which I doubt it will. Sox would definitely like 1-2 of those arms in the Pittsburgh pen and Bobby Hill is an interesting name, past dealings with the Sox notwithstanding. Pirates IMO would want a guy like Rowand, Harris, Davis, Crede, young pitching like Cotts, etc. etc. and that's about it. They're trying to build, Sox are going for it. Not saying I'd necessarily like it, just think if it played out it'd be along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Interesting thoughts, but the reality is Thomas is going nowhere until the end of '05 at least. He has 10/5 rights. Re: Kendall, think in terms of some young talent going Pittsburghs way, with them adding a player this way, plus eating some of the contract. That's IF this would happen ... which I doubt it will. Sox would definitely like 1-2 of those arms in the Pittsburgh pen and Bobby Hill is an interesting name, past dealings with the Sox notwithstanding. Pirates IMO would want a guy like Rowand, Harris, Davis, Crede, young pitching like Cotts, etc. etc. and that's about it. They're trying to build, Sox are going for it. Not saying I'd necessarily like it, just think if it played out it'd be along those lines. I don't know, I don't think any team is going to give them prospects for Kendall unless they pay 70% of the contract and at that point they might as well just keep him. However, if they were to give the Sox Kip Wells then you may see something happen. I think the big thing is they want to do what they can to get the long term contracts off the books so they will be in a position to sign some of their younger players to contracts (ala the Indians of old) to ensure they will stay their and that the Pirates can actually begin to build a core. Like I said, 99.9% of me says Thomas isn't going anywhere, but its no secret that KW and Thomas don't get along and with all his injury issues you could at least see some type of deal making sense. Sox would be getting rid of two ugly (albeit it short term contracts). As far as the 10/5 go, I forget if this was just a myth or not, but I thought the new contract Thomas signed basically waived his 10/5 rights and allows him to be dealt anywhere (I remember this always being mentioned, but I'm guessing its probably untrue). I have no flaw with Thomas, I think if healthy he'll put up good numbers, but thats a big ???. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Pittsburgh has shown they are willing to eat up to 40 to 50% of Kendall's contract, from the attempted trade with the Padres last season. If we could get the Pirates to eat half of his contract, we'd be paying Kendall approx $17 mill over 3 seasons, which is pretty damn good for a catcher of his quality. Throw in Everett somehow maybe in a 3 way deal and it only gets better. I wouldn't mind Jermaine Dye here at all IF the price is right. Of course this all depends what happens with our outfield situation with Everett and Lee, but he could really explode at the Cell, since he's been hitting at the A's ballpark and still put up 23 HR's which isn't too shabby at all. He could easily hit 30+, but his injury problems still worry. Maybe an incentive - laden deal perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 f*** no. IMO, you shouldn't pay a catcher that kind of money. We're on a mid level payroll and it's stupid to throw even $8 million for each of the next 3 years just because the guy has an OBP near .400. Santo, I probably should have mentioned somewhere in there that Pitt would be eating some of the contract, even with the reliever thrown in... Like SS2K said, hell, I wouldn't mind if the Sox ate all the contract... ...If they wanna give us Oliver Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Pittsburgh has shown they are willing to eat up to 40 to 50% of Kendall's contract, from the attempted trade with the Padres last season. If we could get the Pirates to eat half of his contract, we'd be paying Kendall approx $17 mill over 3 seasons, which is pretty damn good for a catcher of his quality. Throw in Everett somehow maybe in a 3 way deal and it only gets better. I wouldn't mind Jermaine Dye here at all IF the price is right. Of course this all depends what happens with our outfield situation with Everett and Lee, but he could really explode at the Cell, since he's been hitting at the A's ballpark and still put up 23 HR's which isn't too shabby at all. He could easily hit 30+, but his injury problems still worry. Maybe an incentive - laden deal perhaps? Question on Dye, since I'm a lazy ass right now: I know his OBP isn't very high, and I know that he has some pretty good power, but is he a high strikeout guy too? Or middle of the pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Question on Dye, since I'm a lazy ass right now: I know his OBP isn't very high, and I know that he has some pretty good power, but is he a high strikeout guy too? Or middle of the pack? In 2004: 128 strikeouts. This was a little higher then his typical season, but he averages over 100 k's a year. Of course prior to his injury he had a couple high OBP years. Does anyone know if he's still quick or did he lose a lot of speed from his injury as well? I'm also assuming he still has a strong arm. I think Dye could probably be had for 2-4 mill with some incentives (heavier incentives if he gets 2 mill). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 In 2004: 128 strikeouts. This was a little higher then his typical season, but he averages over 100 k's a year. Of course prior to his injury he had a couple high OBP years. Does anyone know if he's still quick or did he lose a lot of speed from his injury as well? I'm also assuming he still has a strong arm. I think Dye could probably be had for 2-4 mill with some incentives (heavier incentives if he gets 2 mill). ''Prior to his broken leg, Dye had pretty good speed and could have nabbed double digits in swipes. Oakland, though, has not been a team to put runners in motion, and the injury has made him more tentative on the bases. In the field he has a very good glove, and even if he has lost a step, Dye gets a good jump. His arm is tremendous, and baserunners and opposing coaches know it.'' According to espn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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