Yoda Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Story LONDON (Reuters) - A television pool report by U.S. network NBC said on Monday that a U.S. Marine had shot dead an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Falluja. The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report. U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains. The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left in the mosque for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. No reason was given why that had not happened. A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be already close to death, Sites said. He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing. A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's f***ing faking he's dead. He faking he's f***ing dead." "The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters. The report said the Marine, who had returned to duty after being shot in the face a day earlier, had been removed from the field and was being questioned by the U.S. military. Sites said the shot prisoner "did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I saw most of the video on tv today. A bunch of marines are walking through this building and there are a few dead bodies around, but a marine notices one breather and says HE'S BREATHING HE'S f***ING FAKING HE'S DEAD! then I think another marine says "he's not dead?" and then there's a really close shot and someone says HE'S DEAD NOW Make sure that whenever you do something questionable, get it on film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Support our Troops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 The director with the camera crew told the marine after he shot him that the guy was wounded from fighting before and the marine said "I didn't know sir, I didn't know". The marine that shot the man was shot the day before himself, so he was paranoid on top of it. Still a sad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Support our Troops While i believe it is important to support our troops, it is assanine to give them a blank check. This soldier was in the wrong, and should face the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick03 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 While i believe it is important to support our troops, it is assanine to give them a blank check. This soldier was in the wrong, and should face the consequences. I dont believe this solider was in the wrong. You need to understand what they are going through out there. The iraqi's are booby trapping dead bodies, they are faking death and then firing upon our unsuspecting soliders. This has always gone on in wars. Same thing with vietnam. Our troops are well aware of this and cannot take any chances. I support them 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I dont believe this solider was in the wrong. You need to understand what they are going through out there. The iraqi's are booby trapping dead bodies, they are faking death and then firing upon our unsuspecting soliders. This has always gone on in wars. Same thing with vietnam. Our troops are well aware of this and cannot take any chances. I support them 100%. But if you shoot a grenade or booby trap wouldn't it still blow up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 While i believe it is important to support our troops, it is assanine to give them a blank check. This soldier was in the wrong, and should face the consequences. I believe he may have to appear in front of a War Crimes Tribunal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 "I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong." "It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23. I thought these were some interesting quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I believe he may have to appear in front of a War Crimes Tribunal now. United States military needs its scapegoat to relieve international outrage. As expected, Muslim fundemantalits are expressing outrage. How are these groups justifying the beheading of innocent civilians, again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 United States military needs its scapegoat to relieve international outrage. As expected, Muslim factions are expressing outrage. ..... How are these people justifying the beheading of innocent civilians, again? i don't get what you are trying to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Two wrongs don't make a right. War sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 One of my friends was in Iraq a little over a year ago and he was telling me bout when he was patrolling around one of the cities. He said when they were going throughout the buildings there was an Iraqi soldier who was shot in the leg. He was sitting in a room waving a white flag. So they did as they were trained, they wrapped the leg up to try to stop the bleeding, and then tried to bring him back for questioning. Well, right before they were getting ready to leave, he pulled out a pistol and pointed it right at one of the troops head. Luckily the gun jammed and nothing happened, but it just proves the fact that you can not trust these guys. They have no morals, they just want to try to injure us and kill us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 While i believe it is important to support our troops, it is assanine to give them a blank check. This soldier was in the wrong, and should face the consequences. I love Monday morning quarterbacks :rolly I'm sure the notion that this marine has seen insurgents fake being dead before during his tour is totally out of your grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I'm not going to lie, i wasn't there so i can't tell you how i would act. But maybe the soldier should have taken other steps before using lethal force, at any rate this incident should be inspected by a court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I think I'm gonna let our military do its own investigation. They're better qualified to make a judgment than me. It's unsettling to be sure, but then again - what about war isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I'm not going to lie, i wasn't there so i can't tell you how i would act. But maybe the soldier should have taken other steps before using lethal force, at any rate this incident should be inspected by a court Yeah, you can't tell us how YOU would act, but you are presuming to know how this solder should have acted. He is not a peace negotiator, he is a soldier, with a gun, trying to kill the people that are trying to kill him. Lethal force IS his option. People die, especially enemy combatants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Yeah, you can't tell us how YOU would act, but you are presuming to know how this solder should have acted. He is not a peace negotiator, he is a soldier, with a gun, trying to kill the people that are trying to kill him. Lethal force IS his option. People die, especially enemy combatants. You're assuming that his guy was an enemy combatent, what if he wasn't. Well i guess we will never have the option of knowing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 You're assuming that his guy was an enemy combatent, what if he wasn't. Well i guess we will never have the option of knowing that. This guy was certaintly an enemy combatant. Sites reported that a different Marine unit had come under fire from the mosque on Friday. Those Marines stormed the building, killing 10 men and wounding five, Sites said. The Marines said the fighters in the mosque had been armed with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 rifles. The Marines had treated the wounded, he reported, left them behind and continued on http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...h_prisoner_shot Amazing. Marines will engage insurgents, and those injured are actually TREATED and left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Amazing. Marines will engage insurgents, and those injured are actually TREATED and left behind. Yeah, according to my friend who was over there, he said thats what they are trained to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hawaiisoxfn Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I dont feel sorry for the Iraqi. He was an enemy combatant and he got killed. No Marine died in this whole story, so it doesnt bother me at all. And like slick said, if you were out there, youd definitely sympathize with the troops in these situations because youd know what its like. Its easy to criticize an incident like this if youre sitting at home in suburbia, but if you actually knew what its like, I bet youd support the troops actions. Also, the Iraqis are dirtbags. Earlier in the war, they waved white flags and starting shooting at troops who had let up their guard. That should be taken as waiver of any right to have mercy. f*** the Iraqis! :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I dont feel sorry for the Iraqi. He was an enemy combatant and he got killed. No Marine died in this whole story, so it doesnt bother me at all. And like slick said, if you were out there, youd definitely sympathize with the troops in these situations because youd know what its like. Its easy to criticize an incident like this if youre sitting at home in suburbia, but if you actually knew what its like, I bet youd support the troops actions. Also, the Iraqis are dirtbags. Earlier in the war, they waved white flags and starting shooting at troops who had let up their guard. That should be taken as waiver of any right to have mercy. f*** the Iraqis! :fyou This is just like the justification of what went on at Abu Ghraib that Rumsfeld gave cuz hey, we're not beheading people. Guerrilla warfare isn't pretty but then again neither is neo-conservative ideology that perverted the Truth and got us involved in this mess in the first place. It never fails that those who claim most vocally to support our troops are also the most hell bent on keeping them in harm's way -- be it Vietnam, Gulf War I, Gulf War II etc. In August 2002, the first public hints of a new U.S. secret counterintelligence group -- the Proactive Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG) -- emerged from a report of the Defense Science Board (DSB), a Pentagon advisory group, and found its way into daylight. Its purpose is to "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception". The PPOG's role is to manufacture the terrorism that is to be combatted. They do this by carrying out secret missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces. Does it scare the s*** out of anybody else that the US government is trying to get terrorist attacks to happen and hopefully, just hopefully they'll be able to stop it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 One of my friends was in Iraq a little over a year ago and he was telling me bout when he was patrolling around one of the cities. He said when they were going throughout the buildings there was an Iraqi soldier who was shot in the leg. He was sitting in a room waving a white flag. So they did as they were trained, they wrapped the leg up to try to stop the bleeding, and then tried to bring him back for questioning. Well, right before they were getting ready to leave, he pulled out a pistol and pointed it right at one of the troops head. Luckily the gun jammed and nothing happened, but it just proves the fact that you can not trust these guys. They have no morals, they just want to try to injure us and kill us. They are also trained to search the prisoner to make certain they are not armed, injured or not. Sounds like an urban legend to me. I doubt soldiers would have forgotten to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 They are also trained to search the prisoner to make certain they are not armed, injured or not. Sounds like an urban legend to me. I doubt soldiers would have forgotten to check. That's true but i duno why he'd make up something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I can't say what I would have done if I had just lost a buddy to an insurgent faking death, injury or waving a white flag. Even an injured one can kill you. "Inspecting" one of these guys could be the last thing you ever do. The sad thing about this incident is that the enemy is using this video to rally and recruit more insurgents. Yet, today they video the execution of a 59 year old English lady who was an Iraqi citizen, vehemently against the war and had been helping the Iraqi people most of her adult life. In general, I believe we do try to follow the rules of war. There are always those that don't give a damn and then there are those that just don't think or make mistakes under the pressure they have to deal with everyday. I don't know what this guys story is, but let our military sort it out and act accordingly. I hope they don't scapegoat him for political purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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