FlaSoxxJim Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 This is why it's soooo great to have a President that is committed to developing 'tactical nukes' and telling every other country in the world they can't explore nuclear options unless they want a unilateral ass-kicking. Now we have the Russians back in the ICBM business, so things won't be so one-sided and boring. Russia developing new nuclear missile Earlier this year, a senior Defense Ministry official was quoted as telling news agencies that Russia had developed a weapon that could make the United States' proposed missile-defense system useless. Apparently he doesn't know our proposed missile-defense system is already useless? I mean, according to the actual physicists that understand these things - not the defense policymakers who can't fix a toaster but think sinking hundreds of billions of dollars into a StarWars V2.0 black hole is a swell idea. Good times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Schools, health care and all sorts of social programs are over-rated. All Hail the Military Industrial Complex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 This is why it's soooo great to have a President that is committed to developing 'tactical nukes' and telling every other country in the world they can't explore nuclear options unless they want a unilateral ass-kicking. Now we have the Russians back in the ICBM business, so things won't be so one-sided and boring. Russia developing new nuclear missile Apparently he doesn't know our proposed missile-defense system is already useless? I mean, according to the actual physicists that understand these things - not the defense policymakers who can't fix a toaster but think sinking hundreds of billions of dollars into a StarWars V2.0 black hole is a swell idea. Good times... The whole purpose of the missile shield is to stop a rouge state like Iran or N. Korea from launching on the continental U.S. with a small number of missiles. N. Korea is now thought to possess a class of ballistic missile that can reach the continental U.S. in case you didn't already know. Nobody is under any illusions that we could entirely stop a massive launch from Russia......yet........as the technology is not mature yet. Fortunately for us M.A.D. actually still works on a nation like that. Works on China too although they don't have anything close to Russia's arsenal or ours. I love how the left decries something that can protect our country from missile attack. I know the system is not perfect. IT'S IN THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE! But you'd choke off any and all development and continue to leave us defenseless. AAAA! Blows my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Schools, health care and all sorts of social programs are over-rated. All Hail the Military Industrial Complex! You keep on practicing the policies of appeasement with nations trying to develop nuclear weapons and there wont be any schools left to fund & nobody left for us to throw money away on failed social programs for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The whole purpose of the missile shield is to stop a rouge state like Iran or N. Korea from launching on the continental U.S. with a small number of missiles. N. Korea is now thought to possess a class of ballistic missile that can reach the continental U.S. in case you didn't already know. Nobody is under any illusions that we could entirely stop a massive launch from Russia......yet........as the technology is not mature yet. Fortunately for us M.A.D. actually still works on a nation like that. Works on China too although they don't have anything close to Russia's arsenal or ours. I love how the left decries something that can protect our country from missile attack. I know the system is not perfect. IT'S IN THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE! But you'd choke off any and all development and continue to leave us defenseless. AAAA! Blows my mind. I love how the conservatives will defend any expense for the military, then complain that their taxes are too high :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Who's to say that Russian technology for these ICBMs wouldn't eventually make it to Iran, N. Korea etc.? The pie in the sky idea of a missile shield will always make the military types drool, but by the time you build one, it's already obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 failed social programs for. Nice to see you have such high regard for America's abilities to do anything but kill and destroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Nobody is under any illusions that we could entirely stop a massive launch from Russia......yet........as the technology is not mature yet. Fortunately for us M.A.D. actually still works on a nation like that. Works on China too although they don't have anything close to Russia's arsenal or ours. What I don't get is why the threat of another era of M.A.D. doesn't seem to work on us. As the lone superpower to come out of the other end of the Cold War, we should not have any need to try to get back into the business of escalation by expanding our nuclear arsenal rather than maintaining a status quo or even (*gasp*) a bit of strategic nuclear disarmament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 What I don't get is why the threat of another era of M.A.D. doesn't seem to work on us. As the lone superpower to come out of the other end of the Cold War, we should not have any need to try to get back into the business of escalation by expanding our nuclear arsenal rather than maintaining a status quo or even (*gasp*) a bit of strategic nuclear disarmament. A bit of disarmament? I guess you missed it when our ballistic missile and warhead inventories dropped by 75%. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The whole purpose of the missile shield is to stop a rouge state like Iran or N. Korea from launching on the continental U.S. with a small number of missiles. N. Korea is now thought to possess a class of ballistic missile that can reach the continental U.S. in case you didn't already know. Nobody is under any illusions that we could entirely stop a massive launch from Russia......yet........as the technology is not mature yet. Fortunately for us M.A.D. actually still works on a nation like that. Works on China too although they don't have anything close to Russia's arsenal or ours. I love how the left decries something that can protect our country from missile attack. I know the system is not perfect. IT'S IN THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE! But you'd choke off any and all development and continue to leave us defenseless. AAAA! Blows my mind. It wasn't policies of appeasement towards N. Korea -- it was the US having nukes targeted at them that made them want to create nukes. United Press Int'l broke the story a couple months ago about that. http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/2004...55605-6954r.htm The declassified documents also said the U.S. had kept nuclear weaponry in South Korea until at least 1998, despite officially claiming it had withdrawn all nuclear warheads in 1991...Newly declassified documents revealed the United States planned as recently as 1998 to drop nuclear bombs on North Korea if the country attacked South Korea. You know, come to think of it, as long as you're trying to protect S. Korea, given the situation as it stands now, there are only two choices. 1. Disarm and remove all trace of American presence in the region. Renounce any responsibility for protecting South Korea. 2. Nuke those Northern bastards right now. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, right frickin' now. And, for God's sake, make damn sure none of them are left alive, because that can become a problem down the road (when they repopulate the region and decide they have a problem with you wiping out their ancestors and all). This option would have the added bonus effect of giving the rest of the world a demonstration that the US is still willing, in this day and age, to use these weapons against anyone, at any time, for any reason, or come to think of it, for no reason at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Nice to see you have such high regard for America's abilities to do anything but kill and destroy. We're a lot better at killing and destroying than we are at taking care of the sick and elderly. Sad but true. Medicare is hemmoraging money and the Social Security ponzi pyramid scam is 10 years from insolvency. Major reform is needed in both but up till now politicians in both parties have been too cowardly to face it and the problem has gotten worse. I give Bush credit for having the stones to make an effort to stop the bleeding. Now lets see if he can get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 It wasn't policies of appeasement towards N. Korea -- it was the US having nukes targeted at them that made them want to create nukes. United Press Int'l broke the story a couple months ago about that. http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/2004...55605-6954r.htm You know, come to think of it, as long as you're trying to protect S. Korea, given the situation as it stands now, there are only two choices. 1. Disarm and remove all trace of American presence in the region. Renounce any responsibility for protecting South Korea. 2. Nuke those Northern bastards right now. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, right frickin' now. And, for God's sake, make damn sure none of them are left alive, because that can become a problem down the road (when they repopulate the region and decide they have a problem with you wiping out their ancestors and all). This option would have the added bonus effect of giving the rest of the world a demonstration that the US is still willing, in this day and age, to use these weapons against anyone, at any time, for any reason, or come to think of it, for no reason at all. Gee whiz, I do seem to recall that we did the same thing with Russia when it comes to battlefield nukes. Never mind that the N. Korean army outnumbers the S. Korean army by 2-1 and the token U.S. prescence on the peninsula is regarded by everyone as a speed bump. Actually if you look at it the U.S. is pursuing option number one. U.S. troops on the peninsula are slated to be decreased by a third within 2 years and responsibility for guarding the DMZ is now completely in S. Korea's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 We're a lot better at killing and destroying than we are at taking care of the sick and elderly. Sad but true. Medicare is hemmoraging money and the Social Security ponzi pyramid scam is 10 years from insolvency. Major reform is needed in both but up till now politicians in both parties have been too cowardly to face it and the problem has gotten worse. I give Bush credit for having the stones to make an effort to stop the bleeding. Now lets see if he can get it right. This is getting a bit off-topic, but... C'mon, Bush has only said that he's reducing taxes further. That only makes the SS deficit worse. He's got zero stones. Let him tell the baby boomers and their votes that he's going to cut their benefits, then I'll believe he's anything but a coward on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 This is getting a bit off-topic, but... C'mon, Bush has only said that he's reducing taxes further. That only makes the SS deficit worse. He's got zero stones. Let him tell the baby boomers and their votes that he's going to cut their benefits, then I'll believe he's anything but a coward on this issue. I do seem to recall something about tax reform being looked at which would actually increase revenues since all those tax shelters that wealthy people and corporations now use to skate out of paying any tax at all would go away. SS is by its own nature a ponzi pyramid scam and its doomed to fail. I just wonder what you "throw money at a broken system" liberals are gonna say when SS does go belly up and there are no benefits left for anyone. But adjust your tin foil hats and go on and trash Bush for making reform a priority while we still can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 SS is by its own nature a ponzi pyramid scam and its doomed to fail. I just wonder what you "throw money at a broken system" liberals are gonna say when SS does go belly up and there are no benefits left for anyone. But adjust your tin foil hats and go on and trash Bush for making reform a priority while we still can. Brian and I are more centrists in our politics, but we already starting preparing for the inevitable (SS dying). He has a pension and a 401K, I have a 401K and an IRA. All Bush is doing is providing lip service. As soon as he actually does something instead of talking about it, I will give him credit for that, but not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Brian and I are more centrists in our politics, but we already starting preparing for the inevitable (SS dying). He has a pension and a 401K, I have a 401K and an IRA. All Bush is doing is providing lip service. As soon as he actually does something instead of talking about it, I will give him credit for that, but not before. I totally agree with your reasoning. I too want to see exactly what Bush has in mind for reforming SS but at least its on the table which is more than I can say for any of his predecessors of either party. I too, however, have no confidence in SS still being around in 40 years when I'm supposed to retire so I'm salting away every spare dime in mutual funds. Relying on the government to take care of you is a sure ticket to the poorhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I too, however, have no confidence in SS still being around in 40 years when I'm supposed to retire so I'm salting away every spare dime in mutual funds. I'm just going to have fabulously wealthy children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I too, however, have no confidence in SS still being around in 40 years when I'm supposed to retire so I'm salting away every spare dime in mutual funds. I just hope there is something there for my parents. My mom has been paying into it since she was 16 or 18 (almost 40 years) and my dad since he arrived here (about 34 years). My mom has a good 401K and other benefits from her job, but all my dad has is a s***ty pension (REALLY s***ty). The settlement he got from US Steel was received about 14 years ago and was only a small portion of what he really had before they closed - that money went towards plane tickets home to bury my grandparents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I do seem to recall something about tax reform being looked at which would actually increase revenues since all those tax shelters that wealthy people and corporations now use to skate out of paying any tax at all would go away. SS is by its own nature a ponzi pyramid scam and its doomed to fail. I just wonder what you "throw money at a broken system" liberals are gonna say when SS does go belly up and there are no benefits left for anyone. But adjust your tin foil hats and go on and trash Bush for making reform a priority while we still can. Huh? You said Bush is taking on the problem of SS -- let's see, the problem is that expenditures vastly outweigh receipts for the next, oh, century or so. So Bush proposes -- let's cut receipts! Great proposal. As for tax revenues increasing, there is no reputable economic models that predict it will happen. Just demagoguery by the Republicans. If you have such a model, great, produce it. Otherwise, don't claim that Bush is fixing the problem when he's just making it worse. I'm not a tax-and-spend liberal. We will HAVE to cut benefits to some extent, tax hikes won't cut it. But anyone who says they're going to fix the problem by reducing taxes is just plain lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Relying on the government to take care of you is a sure ticket to the poorhouse. Once again your faith in Americans is truly inspiring. I would think with the GOP in control you would feel great about SS. Or then again maybe you are more realistic about the GOP than I thought. One of the things I am still amazed is how negative the GOP is about America being successful at anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Once again your faith in Americans is truly inspiring. I would think with the GOP in control you would feel great about SS. Or then again maybe you are more realistic about the GOP than I thought. One of the things I am still amazed is how negative the GOP is about America being successful at anything. Way to twist my words around. I have no faith in government programs to provide for me and neither does the GOP and thats the crux of the argument. That's why I'm excited about the prospect of changing over the current SS system to one that involves Personal Savings Accounts. The GOP is actually trying to implement real reform to a broken system. If you think the measure of American greatness is a failed government program then you're a socialist and a rather myopic one at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Huh? You said Bush is taking on the problem of SS -- let's see, the problem is that expenditures vastly outweigh receipts for the next, oh, century or so. So Bush proposes -- let's cut receipts! Great proposal. As for tax revenues increasing, there is no reputable economic models that predict it will happen. Just demagoguery by the Republicans. If you have such a model, great, produce it. Otherwise, don't claim that Bush is fixing the problem when he's just making it worse. I'm not a tax-and-spend liberal. We will HAVE to cut benefits to some extent, tax hikes won't cut it. But anyone who says they're going to fix the problem by reducing taxes is just plain lying. Who said the fix for SS was lowering taxes? Aside from you that is? The solution to SS is to reform the system which is what I have been talking about all along. We've been playing your cut benefits/raise retirement age game for years and the day of reckoning for SS just keeps getting closer. Tax reform and SS reform are two seperate issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Who said the fix for SS was lowering taxes? Aside from you that is? The solution to SS is to reform the system which is what I have been talking about all along. We've been playing your cut benefits/raise retirement age game for years and the day of reckoning for SS just keeps getting closer. Tax reform and SS reform are two seperate issues. Bush's only SS proposal is diverting money from SS taxes to private accounts. That's cutting taxes. His idea, certainly not mine. You're avoiding the issue. ("The solution to SS is to reform the system" -- good detail there.) Taxes and SS are NOT separate issues, since taxes pay for SS. This is obvious, but thanks for the rhetoric. I'd be glad to debate this further, but not in this thread. If you think Bush has a solid plan for SS (or even a clue), post something concrete in a different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 N. Korea is now thought to possess a class of ballistic missile that can reach the continental U.S. in case you didn't already know. which is why we should ignore them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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