qwerty Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I don't want three years of Vizquel. Two years, twelve million (arguably) the best reliever on the market. Two year deals are nice. If it doesn't work out the first year, you can trade him at the deadline the following year. Is there a third year option for the player/team? Nope, no option at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I wonder if this puts Urbina on the block? this definatley puts Urbina on the block, but the only question is, what price would be paid for a trade, and could we trade with a team in the division who will probably contend next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Even if Urbina was available, why would he be traded within the division? Unless he demanded a trade to the White Sox for Ozzie's sake, he won't be traded within the division or even the American League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I think detriot will spend asa much as the sox this year because they know the division is there to take.The tigers have young starters whom will get better. By solidifyign the pen it makes sense. They now have a much better bullpen. If they sign kent they arguably have a strong team to contend. nice signing. Wish we signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Detroit got fleeced. Did they get fleeced? Thats debateable. Did they overpay, looks that way. Do they now have the best setup/closer combo in the AL central? Defenitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 This is not putting Urbina on the block. They announced at their press conference that Percival is going to setup Urbina, not the other way around. Don't forget that Urbina and Pudge are best friends and that is one of the reasons he went to the Tigers in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 This is not putting Urbina on the block. They announced at their press conference that Percival is going to setup Urbina, not the other way around. Don't forget that Urbina and Pudge are best friends and that is one of the reasons he went to the Tigers in the first place. Percival would only sign with a team that he would be the closer. So that is a very very strange thing for them to say that. I highly doubt that the tigers convinced him to set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Did they get fleeced? Thats debateable. Did they overpay, looks that way. Do they now have the best setup/closer combo in the AL central? Defenitely. Not that useful unless the rest of your team can provide you with a lead going into the late innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They have a pretty good offense and they aren't done yet. I bet they land a corner outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They have a pretty good offense and they aren't done yet. I bet they land a corner outfielder. They have no starting pitching. That is the problem they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They have no starting pitching. That is the problem they have. They will sign either Clement or DLowe...that will not solve the problem, but it is a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They will sign either Clement or DLowe...that will not solve the problem, but it is a start. They are at least 2 year away from getting really serious i feel. Even with one of them their starting pitching will be horrid. They do have the makings of a pretty nice pen with a pretty potent offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1925075 The Tigers are probably going to look to trade Urbina, as was first theorized by moi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They need more starting pitching but I have read reports suggesting that they will upgrade over Ro-White. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 They have no starting pitching. That is the problem they have. No starting pitching? Bonderman will anchor Detroit's staff for the unforseable future. Win/Loss record, ERA doesn't give him due respect. His stuff is electric, and late in the season he completely reformed his delivery. I'd expect Bonderman to win 15+ if Detroit's offense is consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 No starting pitching? Bonderman will anchor Detroit's staff for the unforseable future. Win/Loss record, ERA doesn't give him due respect. His stuff is electric, and late in the season he completely reformed his delivery. I'd expect Bonderman to win 15+ if Detroit's offense is consistent. His stuff may be electric but apparently he has not learned how to use it yet. I could give a s*** what his win loss record is. But i do look at whip, era, baa, and pitches per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Its sad to,because on almost any other team, Bonderman would be considered an up and coming star. He is overshadowed by his losses on a s***ty Detriot team. His era was in the 5's and 6's the majority of the year. I don't think he would be considered an up and coming star on any team while pitching like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ahh gerty, we have reached a scouting vs. saber impass. Count me on the scouting side who believs he's going to be a top-rotation starter in the very near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1925075 The Tigers are probably going to look to trade Urbina, as was first theorized by moi. Percival has been signed to be the team's closer, and the Tigers are expected to attempt to trade last year's closer Ugueth Urbina, Stark reports. Urbina's option had been picked up by Detroit earlier in the offseason. The key word there is expected. It was reported right after the press conference by ESPN Radio that Percival will be setting up. We will just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Ahh gerty, we have reached a scouting vs. saber impass. Count me on the scouting side who believs he's going to be a top-rotation starter in the very near future. I have never said he won't be, but i still feel he has a ways to go to be considered an up and coming star. Era around 4.25 over a full year i would start saying that. Edit: It is qwerty not gwerty, you have said thta like 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 His stuff may be electric but apparently he has not learned how to use it yet. I could give a s*** what his win loss record is. But i do look at whip, era, baa, and pitches per game. I merely stated those two statistics because they're the most obvious. Obvioulsy they're not great indications of success/failure. Following his drubbing on August 23, Bonderman's revelation was as followed: 8 starts, 5-3 record, 3.06 ERA, 60K/57.3IP/17BB/42H. /and because you love it: 1.03 WHIP EDIT: To be fair, these starts were against the Sox (2), Boston, KC, TB (2), Cleveland, Baltimore. I still have confidence in his talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I merely stated those two statistics because they're the most obvious. Obvioulsy they're not great indications of success/failure. This should indicate his dominating conclusion to the season. Following his drubbing on August 23, Bonderman's revelation was as followed: 8 starts, 5-3 record, 3.06 ERA, 60K/57.3IP/17BB/42H. /and because you love it: 1.03 WHIP I think he will be a good pitcher never said otherwise but he is not the best starter on the team at this point. I still think it is a pretty fair thing to say that they have little to no starting pitching. I do like whip alot because it is one of the better ways if not the best way to evaluate a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 His era was in the 5's and 6's the majority of the year. I don't think he would be considered an up and coming star on any team while pitching like that. Dude, give him a break. The kid is only 22 and now has two years under his belt. Look at his numbers. His last years numbers were comparable and even better than Garlands and he has less experience with a younger age. Bonderman As you can see, he's been improving year after year. Not saying he's booked from an era under 3, but I'd take him at his salary, good stuff, and young age than half of the pitchers in the league (inc. Garland) any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 The key word there is expected. It was reported right after the press conference by ESPN Radio that Percival will be setting up. We will just have to wait and see. 6 million dollars a year is a lot of money for a setup man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Dude, give him a break. The kid is only 22 and now has two years under his belt. Look at his numbers. His last years numbers were comparable and even better than Garlands and he has less experience with a younger age. Bonderman As you can see, he's been improving year after year. Not saying he's booked from an era under 3, but I'd take him at his salary, good stuff, and young age than half of the pitchers in the league (inc. Garland) any day of the week. I have nothing against him, i just don't think he would or should be considered an up and coming star with an era in the 5's and 6's throughout the majority of the year. Is that an unfair thing to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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