beck72 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 The first move the Sox should do is sign FA 3B Corey Koskie. With Koskie signed, and Crede, Garland and PK as trading chips, the sox would have more flexibility via the trade route to fill their holes [which KW seems to prefer anyway]. With possible deals with Pitt, Oak, and Ariz, out there, the more chips the Sox have the better their chances of landing the player they really want, instead of settling for a lesser choice. Signing Koskie would then put the Sox in a better position to shore up their other holes, either by trade of free agency. A MN paper reports that the Twins have offered Koskie a 2 yr, $7 mill contract. And that despite some interest from a few teams, no other offers are on the table. The Sox could come in with a 3 yr offer, for say $10.5. That’s a decent contract for a guy like Koskie. He would give the Sox a LH bat that hits for a .280 avg, a good OBP, and solid defense. And provide a veteran for the IF to go along with Uribe and Harris [and possibly Gload if PK is traded]. It's even less than what they were going to give Vizquel. No doubt Crede has upside. Yet, IMO, Harris and Uribe have even more so. Yet all three are question marks going into 2005. And IMO, having an entire infield of unproven players is too big a gamble, esp. seeing how hard it would be to add players mid-season. We all saw what Uribe is capable of. And Harris was hitting over .300 in June, along with a solid OBP and the best speed on the club. Even in the minors Crede wasn’t a big OBP guy. He hit for avg, and power. But hasn’t hit for avg. in the bigs, a lot of K’s and even less OBP. Koskie’s solid production could be counted on in a day in day out basis. Signign Koskie would just be the start of various scenarios. Here are just two off the top of my head. Option 1 [my preference] The Sox go after Jason Kendall for leadoff. Word was that a deal was close with Pitt., Kendall + cash for Garland. Yet trading Garland, w/o filling the 4th starters spot, is very risky. I’d say that more than the money is the biggest hold up. Pitt. would probably take Crede + other lesser names for Kendall. They have solid pitching as it is and need cheap, young position players. That way Garland would still be on the Sox. Or if they wanted Garland, the sox would still have Crede and PK as valuable trading chips. The Sox would still have money for a #3 like Perez or Ortiz [Or could still pull out a deal for one the A’s pitchers]. Worst case scenario, the Sox keep Garland as the #4, and get a vet who makes $1 mill to come in and eat innings. Option 2- target RJ [with PK and Jon / Joe part of the trade. Leadoff would go to Harris, as the Sox couldn’t afford Kendall. Either Jon or Joe could then be traded to fill the remaining holes, at C, bullpen, or SP. The Sox shouldn't be held hostage by overpaying for mediocre fee agents or hoping the right players on other teams and free agents fall through. But by being a little proactive now, the sox could wait for things to sort themselves out later in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I was thinking the same thing the other day. I'm all for signing the scrappy 3B. I would love to send Crede in some package to get Aubrey Huff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 But doesn't signing Koskie lower any type of trade value Crede might still have? I mean if we sign a new 3B before we trade him then it's hard for us to sell to other GM's that we are giving them something worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I would think Crede has little to no trade value right now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I would think Crede has little to no trade value right now anyway. I am going with None for 200 ALex alex: and the answer is JOE Crede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I would think Crede has little to no trade value right now anyway. Right you are. He has regressed ever since he got here. Buy low, sell high. Can't trade Crede away right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 But doesn't signing Koskie lower any type of trade value Crede might still have? I mean if we sign a new 3B before we trade him then it's hard for us to sell to other GM's that we are giving them something worthwhile. Crede has value to the lower market teams in need of a 3b man. Esp, a team with a big contract they'd want to get rid of [like Danys Baez or Jose Cruz Jr. in TB]. The Sox could match up with a few teams this way--Milw, for bullpen help. Crede's value is in potential. Whether teams would have the Sox "over a barrel" remains to be seen. But the upside of the Sox to having to deal from a position of strength would outweigh the loss in terms of possible talent. IMO, there are many teams willing to jump at a bargain, even if it helps a team get out of jam. Think about how many teams looking for their FA 3B, who will still need to fill a spot when their guy signs elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 I would think Crede has little to no trade value right now anyway. You'd be wrong. If Crede was shopped, you'd be surprised what other teams would be willing to trade for him. Yet of the 3 young Sox IFers, though, Crede prob. has less upside. But the prospect of having a proven vet for 3B, who knows the AL Central, a winner, would be too much to pass up. Esp, if the added benefit was to "steal" him away from the Sox biggest rival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I agree getting Koskie would be excellent but I don't see many teams having interest in Crede. Only upside for Crede is he plays decent Dfens and has some power. Like I said... Little to no value. I am sure some team may try to fix him and hope he can produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Right you are. He has regressed ever since he got here. Buy low, sell high. Can't trade Crede away right now. I think it be easier for the Cubs to trade Sosa to somewhere with the 18 mil in 2006 than it is to trade away Crede. Lets jsut hope he can play a bit better and hope that this year #1 pick can come around by 07/08 time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I think it be easier for the Cubs to trade Sosa to somewhere with the 18 mil in 2006 than it is to trade away Crede. Lets jsut hope he can play a bit better and hope that this year #1 pick can come around by 07/08 time.. You have to be kidding...Sosa's Albatross is much harder to move! Many scouts have likened Joe Crede's struggles to that of Adrian Beltre. He could break out at any time. Alot of teams would take a chance on him and give up a decent amount to get him. With his demeanor and introverted behavior he has 'change of scenery' guy written all over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winning Ugly Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Option 2- target RJ [with PK and Jon / Joe part of the trade. Leadoff would go to Harris, as the Sox couldn’t afford Kendall. Either Jon or Joe could then be traded to fill the remaining holes, at C, bullpen, or SP. I still don't think RJ would approve a deal to come to us. However, a 3-way trade with the Yankees and us getting Vazquez, who has no veto power, would be doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 I think it be easier for the Cubs to trade Sosa to somewhere with the 18 mil in 2006 than it is to trade away Crede. I'm sure you're kidding about Sosa. Crede makes near the league minimum. And could give a team exactly what they need from his position-power and good defense. Think how many teams are in low budget, cutback mode then those who are increasing payroll. Crede should hit in the .270+ range easy. His avg was the only thing holding him back. I like Crede. But the Sox need to get more trading pieces in order to get the layers they really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 You have to be kidding...Sosa's Albatross is much harder to move! Many scouts have likened Joe Crede's struggles to that of Adrian Beltre. He could break out at any time. Alot of teams would take a chance on him and give up a decent amount to get him. With his demeanor and introverted behavior he has 'change of scenery' guy written all over him. I was trying to be sarcastic... I can see the Beltre comparison.. I just keep hope llike much of us do that one day something will clikc in his head and rememeber how to hit like he did in the minors. I think I figured if he would have gotten 30 more hits over the year thats about 1.25 a week that he could have had a .260 avg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 I still don't think RJ would approve a deal to come to us. However, a 3-way trade with the Yankees and us getting Vazquez, who has no veto power, would be doable. I think so too. But waiting on RJ and other teams to agree on a trade, while letting decent #3 SP's sign elsewhere is a recipe for disaster. Vazquez would be signed for 3 yrs, and would come with cash, to lessen his big contract. I'd like that option as well. Most likely it would take 2 big names like PK and Jon for the deal. That's why having a 3rd trading piece like Crede to fill other holes makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I still don't think RJ would approve a deal to come to us. However, a 3-way trade with the Yankees and us getting Vazquez, who has no veto power, would be doable. And I think very possible. Its no secret the Yankees don't have enough prospects to get the job done. The White Sox do. They have also done the 3 way dance with the Yankees before in the Bartolo Colon deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I think so too. But waiting on RJ and other teams to agree on a trade, while letting decent #3 SP's sign elsewhere is a recipe for disaster. Vazquez would be signed for 3 yrs, and would come with cash, to lessen his big contract. I'd like that option as well. Most likely it would take 2 big names like PK and Jon for the deal. That's why having a 3rd trading piece like Crede to fill other holes makes sense. I agree with you on the Vazquez thing, I would rather have him as our #3, it makes more sense in the long run. Randy is a god among men, but we are givein up allot for a risk IMO. I said a 3way deal involving Yankees, Diamondbacks and us AZI- Pauly, Garland, Grille Yankees- Randy Us- Vazquez and Matsui!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I agree with you on the Vazquez thing, I would rather have him as our #3, it makes more sense in the long run. Randy is a god among men, but we are givein up allot for a risk IMO. I said a 3way deal involving Yankees, Diamondbacks and us AZI- Pauly, Garland, Grille Yankees- Randy Us- Vazquez and Matsui!! I don't know what your smoking but no way in hell would anyone want Grilli. I doubt he can even win 4 games over a full year next season if we is in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I don't know what your smoking but no way in hell would anyone want Grilli. I doubt he can even win 4 games over a full year next season if we is in the rotation. Yes and Harris and Uribe are the answer to our INF right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I don't really think it's a good idea for us to aquire Johnson and send him to the Yankees. If we're trying to win a pennant, having RJ to compete with in the playoffs aren't the odds i'd like to face. If we make the playoffs... If we can't get him, keep him in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Yes and Harris and Uribe are the answer to our INF right?? Because of their great defense together, yes! However Willie needs to be a #9 hitter. We got Grilli as a give away. No one will want him. He's just not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Yes and Harris and Uribe are the answer to our INF right?? What does that have to do with anyone wanting Grilli? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Because of their great defense together, yes! However Willie needs to be a #9 hitter. We got Grilli as a give away. No one will want him. He's just not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 What does that have to do with anyone wanting Grilli? Its from another post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 got ya, my bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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