quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I think Qwerty and I, being a little younger, assume with Gload as a starting 1B Konerko would be gone, and bring a significant upgrade at another position. You and quick, being older and more jaded, assume the sox would recive nothing of value in return for konerko. By the way I totally respect yours and qwerty's comments. I really do. I think you guys are excellent posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 You and quick, being older and more jaded, assume the sox would recive nothing of value in return for konerko. Not so sure I agree with that. Actually I am generally more optimistic than many younger people on this board. I can name 4-5 posters who come on here to do nothing but spew continuous negativity, i.e. "Reisndorf blows" "Reisndorf is cheap" "KW sucks", etc. I may be a bit more jaded due to life experience but those things don't come out of me. As for Konerko, they can get something for him and it can be of value. There is not a huge market for him, complicated by Delgado and Sexson being on the FA market. His trade value is certainly higher than last year, but he's got only one year left on the contract so the higher value may be cancelled out by that fact. What will have to be done ... probably .... if they want to trade PK is they give a team a window of opportunity to sign him to an extension. There will be a few teams that want him, I mentioned Baltimore if they don't get either Sexson or Delgado. They'd rather have those two guys and aren't afraid to spend to get them. Funny how a little competition suddenly wakes the Orioles up. Sox management always preaches how they're somehow smarter than other teams by bringing in the Ross Gload types but the team never wins. This is not a knock at Gload, he is a good role player IMO but was miscast greatly by having him play RF. But that's the way it goes. They didn't have depth. Even Borchard, his problems aren't limited to that long swing. How many fly balls flew over his head? He's not a good OF in addition to looking way up at the Mendoza line. Not a good combo. Two bright spots here ... 1. It's November whatever. There is time. 2. KW is aggressive. He is dumb at times but he tries. Schueler was smug and sat on prospects who never panned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 No cheat, but please indicate what you think we will get in return. Jaded probably, wise, probably. I think the sox are cheap, and we get what we get. We will be close every year, and if all the pieces fall, nobody gets hurt and a couple of calls go our way we might win a division every 5 years. Not good enough for me' I would assume that Konerko being gone means a significant upgrade at P... either. RJ Buehrle Garcia Contreras whoever or Garcia Buehrle Actual #3 starter. Contreras Garland To me either of those two upgrades at SP is worth the small downgrade at 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I made a sweeping generalization, and I think you guys mayhave taken in the wrong way, but I love the conversation we're getting out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I made a sweeping generalization, and I think you guys mayhave taken in the wrong way, but I love the conversation we're getting out of it. kool so do I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Just want to chime in here, I dont really understand why the "3rd biggest market" rule applies to the Sox, when there ranked 21st in average attendence. Yes, having a winning team up's attendence, but we all know its a two way street. Why should JR spend if know one comes to the ballpark. Why should we go to the ballpark if JR doesnt spend........... Personally, I dont think JR is wrong by not shelling out 80Mil on a payroll when we dont break the 2 mil mark. I do go to the park, but I guess the case is that there is 7 million people within an hour of the park. Lots to draw from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I made a sweeping generalization, and I think you guys mayhave taken in the wrong way, but I love the conversation we're getting out of it. No, I was absolutely not offended by it in the least and echo quick's comments, you two guys are excellent posters IMO. I know we are just bantering ideas here. Here is the thing about the 1B situation: The Sox think they can get a Meinkiewoasdfapwe type performance out of Gload. Maybe, maybe not. I have a higher opinion of Konerko than quick does, but I'm not averse to trading anyone if it makes the team better. Look at the trade bait, who do other teams want? Let's face it, they're not lining up to take Konerko. 1B guys are easier to find, that's just how it is. Carlos Lee has more value, lots of teams would pay through the nose to get him. If Konerko goes, somebody goes with him, I can almost assure that. If you were giving up a really good starting pitcher, and you wanted Konerko, you'd want more. Like Garland. Or McCarthy. One big problem the Sox have that Hendry does not have ... cut the cord on certain prospects before they turn to bums. KW is in love with Borchard, bad move. Diaz has been at AAA for a while now, he can't make the jump. I do not want to depend on Felix Diaz. But like I said, it's early still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 No, I was absolutely not offended by it in the least and echo quick's comments, you two guys are excellent posters IMO. I know we are just bantering ideas here. Here is the thing about the 1B situation: The Sox think they can get a Meinkiewoasdfapwe type performance out of Gload. Maybe, maybe not. I have a higher opinion of Konerko than quick does, but I'm not averse to trading anyone if it makes the team better. Look at the trade bait, who do other teams want? Let's face it, they're not lining up to take Konerko. 1B guys are easier to find, that's just how it is. Carlos Lee has more value, lots of teams would pay through the nose to get him. If Konerko goes, somebody goes with him, I can almost assure that. If you were giving up a really good starting pitcher, and you wanted Konerko, you'd want more. Like Garland. Or McCarthy. One big problem the Sox have that Hendry does not have ... cut the cord on certain prospects before they turn to bums. KW is in love with Borchard, bad move. Diaz has been at AAA for a while now, he can't make the jump. I do not want to depend on Felix Diaz. But like I said, it's early still. man this sounds familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Quick, I know you go to the park. I also go, its not the members on this board that are the problem, its the casual fan that doesnt go to the park. There are numerous reasons why they dont go on a regular basis, #1 proably being based that there isnt a consistant winning team on the field. BUT, if you were a sharholder, you had $$$ in the team, would you "Break the Bank" on a team that didnt draw 2 mil the last season? Would they go if barry Bonds was on the team? Would they have gone if Sosa was on the team when he was hitting all those juiced home runs. Did they go in 93? Would they go Jeter or rodrigez was on the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Quick, I know you go to the park. I also go, its not the members on this board that are the problem, its the casual fan that doesnt go to the park. There are numerous reasons why they dont go on a regular basis, #1 proably being based that there isnt a consistant winning team on the field. BUT, if you were a sharholder, you had $$$ in the team, would you "Break the Bank" on a team that didnt draw 2 mil the last season? A lot of those shareholders are the problem. (the real ones, ha ha). They should be brought out into the open and asked THEIR opinion instead of hiding behind Reinsdorf all the time. He deserves a lot of the crap he takes but not all of it. He's the mouthpiece for those behind the scenes multimillionaires. The Sox don't lose money, that's the mandate down there. They run it like a business, period. Problem is, they won't go into the hole for even one year. They just won't. Casual fans ... they're almost all Cub fans out here. People are more transient, the deep loyalties to sports teams don't exist any more or as much anyways. Years ago you'd have never seen a Red Wings jersey on a kid ... I told a neighbor kid "no candy for you" at Halloween because he had a Red Wing jersey on But that is off topic. I think Mariotti is a major frontrunner and a windsock but I do like that he puts heat on the White Sox. He is an act, an entertainer. He acts like a prick to get attention, but his message holds some truth. He demands Reinsdorf to sell, either he's stupid or he's trying to appeal to the "common man" because I bet the rent he knows Reinsdorf can't sell, he doesn't have the authority. The White Sox need to understand they have to score big huge PR points in the offseason. They don't seem to get it. Reinsdorf was on the radio yesterday, in one sentence he says, "Boras drags things out, we aren't going to sit around and wait." Next sentence he responds to a caller saying why don't the Sox get going and make some moves by saying, "the season doesn't start until April." There is a lot of smugness down there which I do not like, but who am I, I am just a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 nice and I agree, plus there are alot of free agents who are not Boras free agents. Why are the sox not lining up for those? pavano comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 nice and I agree, plus there are alot of free agents who are not Boras free agents. Why are the sox not lining up for those? pavano comes to mind. Pavano has no desire to come here. He would prefer to stay on the east coast. Main teams that come to mind are, yankees, red sox, and the orioles. Marlins have basically given up any chance that they had of resigning him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Pavano has no desire to come here. He would prefer to stay on the east coast. Main teams that come to mind are, yankees, red sox, and the orioles. Marlins have basically given up any chance that they had of resigning him. qwerty point is there are many free agents out there that have players that would come to chicago, one of the greatest cities in the world, if we offered them money. Fans will come out for three reasons: 1) ballpark is fun and safe. 2) Superstars are playing. 3) Team is playoff bound and in the hunt. thats it. thats how you get fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Why are the sox not lining up for those? pavano comes to mind. Certain clubs signing FA's may open up opportunities for trades. Only legitimate excuse to explain KW sitting on his ass. Otherwise, why hold out if KW/JR know exactly what they're looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 qwerty point is there are many free agents out there that have players that would come to chicago, one of the greatest cities in the world, if we offered them money. Fans will come out for three reasons: 1) ballpark is fun and safe. 2) Superstars are playing. 3) Team is playoff bound and in the hunt. thats it. thats how you get fans. True, but alot of national league players do not like to come over because of the effect o n their stats. The difference between a 4.50 era and a 4 era is millions upon millions of dollars. I understand your points, and i guess i understand theirs. But yours should be more important, i think they would be for me if i was a player but i cannot say that for a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 True, but alot of national league players do not like to come over because of the effect o n their stats. The difference between a 4.50 era and a 4 era is millions upon millions of dollars. I understand your points, and i guess i understand theirs. But yours should be more important, i think they would be for me if i was a player but i cannot say that for a fact. yep I understand your point. Lets dream for a minute. Just this year. What if we signed; Nomar pavanno Randy johnson koskie acquired Chacon from Colorado gave up Garland, Konerko, crede, and whatever minor leauger. Do you think we would get fans to the park? Superstars plus Pitching. You see I think we would, but the sox won't for one minute take that chance, not even for one year. What if we would have picked up Irod last year. he is a superstar coming from a world series team making ten million. You see I think we would have the town with those guys on the team. We would be the buzz. But the sox don't act like that, not for one minute. so we get waht we get and we get third place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 If we got Nomar, Unit, and Pavano we would sell more tickets for sue. However, we wouldn't sell anough tickets in all likelihood to offset the costs of adding those guys. Look at AZ, they have a new franchise with a great park and they bring in terrifiec players and they sell a ton of tickets, and yet they bleed money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I was thinking the same thing the other day. I'm all for signing the scrappy 3B. I would love to send Crede in some package to get Aubrey Huff. Why would you wanna pay so much for a guy with stats similar than Crede's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 If we got Nomar, Unit, and Pavano we would sell more tickets for sue. However, we wouldn't sell anough tickets in all likelihood to offset the costs of adding those guys. Look at AZ, they have a new franchise with a great park and they bring in terrifiec players and they sell a ton of tickets, and yet they bleed money. Got that punch ,but here is my thought, you will get Johnson for two years tops, Nomar for three years tops, you will lose everett next year, that frees up money as well. main issue, we may have to bite the bullett for two years tops. After two years Johnson is off the books and possibly nomar. The buzz will be great and whitesox baseball back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Got that punch ,but here is my thought, you will get Johnson for two years tops, Nomar for three years tops, you will lose everett next year, that frees up money as well. main issue, we may have to bite the bullett for two years tops. After two years Johnson is off the books and possibly nomar. The buzz will be great and whitesox baseball back on. you can always re-evaluate after three years. You will most definately fill the park, I suspect 2.2-2.5 million fans. You would be in the playoffs and with that staff probably the world series. You will have superstars, fans, media, everything. Even if you took Koskie out of the mix and kept crede, you could still make a huge splash. All I am saying is make the splash. that is what will get people to the games. It will get media intot he sox corner, it will get other players wanting to come here. It will create a buzz in this town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Scott Gregor, the White Sox writer for the Daily Herald, is on right now. The usual stuff so far, nothing groundbreaking. Gregor seems to think if they can't get RJ they'll be after a #3 guy like Matt Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Why would you wanna pay so much for a guy with stats similar than Crede's Crede. YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 2004 144 490 67 117 25 0 21 69 34 81 1 2 .239 .299 .418 .717 Huff. YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 2004 157 600 92 178 27 2 29 104 56 74 5 1 .297 .360 .493 .853 If you were talking about koskie his career numbers are very solid. 5.04 162 554 87 155 36 3 20 87 76 128 13 7 .280 .373 .463 .836 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Got that punch ,but here is my thought, you will get Johnson for two years tops, Nomar for three years tops, you will lose everett next year, that frees up money as well. main issue, we may have to bite the bullett for two years tops. After two years Johnson is off the books and possibly nomar. The buzz will be great and whitesox baseball back on. Johnson only has one more year left on his contract and nomar only wants a one year deal so that he can get a big payday next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Johnson only has one more year left on his contract and nomar only wants a one year deal so that he can get a big payday next year. great even a better argument for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 great even a better argument for me. There is no reason that the do not go after nomar. He would be perfect here, i know people are scared with his injury riddled past but sometime you have to take chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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