whitesoxfan99 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Just for the record what the fan originally did was assault. I'm not defending the fans though. They were the worst culprits in this whole thing but saying that Ron Artest was in the right by going and attacking the guy is ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It appeared to me that those two kids, the younger of whom was crying, there was a big fat guy who came over to comfort them, as if he was their father maybe... He was also the same guy who was taking cheap shots at Freddy Jones. Didn't notice that. Watching daddy pummel on NBA players is bound to emotionally scar the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Anyone else have any thought on who actually threw the cup? The guy in the blue shirt and gray hat has his hands in his pockets completely by the time Ron is in the stands. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Anyone else have any thought on who actually threw the cup? The guy in the blue shirt and gray hat has his hands in his pockets completely by the time Ron is in the stands. Thoughts? That was who Jim Gray said threw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'm not defending the fans though. They were the worst culprits in this whole thing but saying that Ron Artest was in the right by going and attacking the guy is ludicrous. Artest's unpredictable, unstable personality only fuels this debate. Would Karl Malone or David Robinson have jumped into the crowd in a similar situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It appeared to me that those two kids, the younger of whom was crying, there was a big fat guy who came over to comfort them, as if he was their father maybe... He was also the same guy who was taking cheap shots at Freddy Jones. Oh man, I just saw what you were talking about. The exact guy who sucker punched Freddy went over and comforted the two kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 That was who Jim Gray said threw it. Alright, I guess since he was there he would know, it just doesn't seem probable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Alright, I guess since he was there he would know, it just doesn't seem probable. I have no idea who threw it, but I know one thing, if I throw something at a crazey motherf***er like Ron Artest I'm going to act like I didn't do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'm not defending the fans though. They were the worst culprits in this whole thing but saying that Ron Artest was in the right by going and attacking the guy is ludicrous. I completely understand where you're coming from 99, however if you were getting s*** thrown at you, you think you would have done something different??? I'm postive I would have done the same thing as artest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I have no idea who threw it, but I know one thing, if I throw something at a crazey motherf***er like Ron Artest I'm going to act like I didn't do anything. It wasn't just acting like it, it's just the way he looked where he wouldn't have had time to throw and cup and them position himself the way he did. Should be a fun Christmas Day matchup...Although all of the players involved will probably not be playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I completely understand where you're coming from 99, however if you were getting s*** thrown at you, you think you would have done something different??? I'm postive I would have done the same thing as artest. Not if its a plastic cup with beer. I'm pretty calm under most circumstances and have been hit with a beer before by some drunk guy and I basically did just walk away. If I was drunk I might not have reacted quite differently though. In the case of a professional athlete who is making millions of dollars you just can't act that way though. You point the guy out to security have them deal with it and thats the end of it. Now if I am getting pelted as the Pacers were once the situation got out of hand, then I probably do act as Artest did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor..._ray&id=1927360 Plenty of blame to go around By Ray Ratto Special to ESPN.com Never mind all the apologies and acts of contrition you will hear over the next few days in the wake of Friday's Pacers-Pistons riot. They'll all be lies, every one of them. The fact is, every person involved in the horrendous brawl at The Palace at Auburn Hills is secretly proud of himself for not taking any stuff – from Ron Artest clocking the one fan in a Pistons jersey, to the louts who drenched Jermaine O'Neal on his way off the floor with every liquid item from the concession stands. They're all telling their friends what great people they are, and how many valuable lessons they imparted to all those other stupid people, whoever they might be. They all think this was a rite of passage, a test of manhood, and they all think they passed with flying colors. They are going to spend the next few days defending themselves for their behavior, and delegating blame left and right, everywhere but themselves. It's the players. No, it's the fans. No, it's lax security. And the one unifying theme is, "Hey, it wasn't me. I was just defending myself." And all of it is nonsense. Nothing's going to happen, not until someone gets shot, or stabbed, or crippled. Yes, we will all wring our hands and decry the looming end of civility in sports, but let us remind you that when Texas Rangers pitcher Frank Francisco threw a chair into the stands in Oakland, his suspension was brief and potential felony charges were not filed. And the same will happen here. Everyone will talk a good game, but in the end, the only thing the players, the league office, the Detroit management and the town in general will want is for it all to go away, and hope people will forget. Which, of course, they will. This makes for swell television, and fabulous round-table discussions, but in the end, it is an embarrassment that will be handled like most embarrassing situations – with as little talking and as much sleight of hand as needed to get people on to the next topic. What ought to happen is simple, and comprehensive. The Pacers involved get real suspensions – long, staggered and without pay. The Pistons get fined several million dollars for their security lapses, even though this was your basic unforeseeable situation. The teams play their next game in an empty arena, while paying all arena personnel as though they had worked that day, and then make sizable contributions to anti-violence charitable groups in their towns. And the fans involved are identified, found, stripped of their season tickets (if applicable) and charged with as much as the law will allow. Now guess how many of those will happen. Or better yet, let us answer that for you. Almost none of them. And while you're at it, guess which two other things won't happen. Beer sales will not be curtailed because the markup for beer is one of the great arena cash cows of all time. Beer at an arena has been elevated to a God-given right, and given that fans will cheerfully pay up to $12 for a bottle of imported, that's a God the league and its members recognize and worship devoutly. And the other is those courtside seats. They all seemed to bother the fellows on the NBA Shootaround studio so much, and yet, they aren't going anywhere either. They may be bolted down now, but like the beer, they generate way too much money from way too many high rollers to do anything but stay right where they are. Over the next few days, you will hear outrage, and disgust, and demands for retribution. Hey, they serve their purpose because they let everyone position themselves as victims and moralists. It's good anaerobic exercise, and everyone comes away feeling better for the experience. But don't buy the apologies, and don't buy the vows of punishment, or remedies. This, too, will pass because too many people want it to pass. And when nobody's looking, the Pacers and the fans will all be very proud of themselves for standing up to each other, for eagerly crossing the line that should never be crossed. Some day, though, someone will end up dead at courtside, or rinkside, or the sideline, or in the tunnel, and then we'll all wonder how it could have come to such a horrible end. And we'll remember this night, and how the worst riot in recent NBA history was "someone else's fault." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scwible Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'm not defending the fans though. They were the worst culprits in this whole thing but saying that Ron Artest was in the right by going and attacking the guy is ludicrous. agree 100% man. I was gonna write some rant about this but i gone leave it alone and quote you instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Not if its a plastic cup with beer. I'm pretty calm under most circumstances and have been hit with a beer before by some drunk guy and I basically did just walk away. If I was drunk I might not have reacted quite differently though. In the case of a professional athlete who is making millions of dollars you just can't act that way though. You point the guy out to security have them deal with it and thats the end of it. Now if I am getting pelted as the Pacers were once the situation got out of hand, then I probably do act as Artest did. Fair enough, agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Alright, I guess since he was there he would know, it just doesn't seem probable. Jim Gray was noticeably shaken during his assessment of the brawl. IMO, ESPN is essentially blaming an innocent man. The network should be in no position to judge the person responsible unless there's undeniable proof. What's worse is ESPN arrows the man in the white hat, but fails to mention the possibility Artest attacked an innocent fan. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Not if its a plastic cup with beer. I'm pretty calm under most circumstances and have been hit with a beer before by some drunk guy and I basically did just walk away. If I was drunk I might not have reacted quite differently though. In the case of a professional athlete who is making millions of dollars you just can't act that way though. You point the guy out to security have them deal with it and thats the end of it. Now if I am getting pelted as the Pacers were once the situation got out of hand, then I probably do act as Artest did. Artest was getting shoved by Wallace, and Wallace was continualy trying to get at Artest, throwing a towl at him. If you were in that situation, that'd get you going. Artest knows what people think of him, and what kind of situation he was in. He tried to stay away from it, laying down on the press table. However, the throwing of the beer didn't help. I guarantee if all those things were going against you, you'd done the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Fair enough, agree to disagree. See, I guess I'm just too rational. I'm not going to put myself or others at risk because I'm pissed someone threw a plastic cup at me. If it was something that could actually harm me or its the situation Jermaine O'Neal encountered as he was walking through the tunnel, thats a different situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scwible Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Artest was getting shoved by Wallace, and Wallace was continualy trying to get at Artest, throwing a towl at him. If you were in that situation, that'd get you going. Artest knows what people think of him, and what kind of situation he was in. He tried to stay away from it, laying down on the press table. However, the throwing of the beer didn't help. I guarantee if all those things were going against you, you'd done the same thing. artest was basically telling ben wallace to try an get me by laying on the table, inciting more pushing from wallace. If he would have moved away and not stayed 2 feet from wallace it might have calmed down faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 After watching that fight over and over and over and over again... It makes me wanna have a brew and beat up some wondering basketball player... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 artest was basically telling ben wallace to try an get me by laying on the table, inciting more pushing from wallace. If he would have moved away and not stayed 2 feet from wallace it might have calmed down faster. Okay....Artest was wrong for AVOIDING conflict with Wallace... Can the guy ever win....Good god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scwible Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Okay....Artest was wrong for AVOIDING conflict with Wallace... Can the guy ever win....Good god. he wasn't AVOIDING. AVOIDING would have been going to the bench, not laying on the press table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Review for anyone who still hasn't seen the video: Ron Artest fouled Ben Wallace pretty hard, so ben pushed him in the throat. The benches cleared and there was the obligatory pushing and posturing. Ron Artest removed himself from scene and lays down on the scorer's table. A cup of beer flies from the stands and hits Artest in the upper chest. Artest runs into the stands towards a guy who looks very amused and then very scared. Pounds said guy. Another fan throws a cup of something in Artest's face and is prompted punched in the face by Stephen Jackson. A battle royale starts with Artest getting punched from behind from some douche. Fred Jones, who entered the stands to break up the fight, is also punched from behind by some giant black guy (who may or may not be a security guard) Players get out of the stands, but some fans now enter the court. Pistons fan starts walking towards Artest with some threatening gestures. Gets nailed right in the face. Friend of Pistons Fan tried to help his friend and is rewarded with his own punch to the face courtesy Jermaine ONeal. TONS of s*** starts being thrown on the court. A ref is hit in the face with a bottle. A chair is thrown at Jermaine ONeal but hits some other dude. As the Pacers enter the locker room, they are tared and feathered with soda/beer and popcorn. QUALITY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 he wasn't AVOIDING. AVOIDING would have been going to the bench, not laying on the press table. Give me a break. He moved away from him and wasn't doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Give me a break. He moved away from him and wasn't doing anything. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 (edited) Okay....Artest was wrong for AVOIDING conflict with Wallace... Can the guy ever win....Good god. I think Artest was very wrong for charging into the stands but I thought he handled himself pretty well with Ben Wallace, but he would have fought Wallace given the opportunity to do so (i.e. not having teammates and coaches getting between them). That would have been justified though since he was actually the one being attacked. Edited November 20, 2004 by whitesoxfan99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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