aboz56 Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Once again, Ben Wallace gets off the hook for his bulls*** overreaction to a foul that wasn't really that hard. And Jermaine O'Neal gets 25 games for punching an idiot who ran onto the floor? You've gotta be kidding me. If a fan runs on the floor, they deserve to be punched in the face. I can understand the Jackson suspension and I suppose the Artest suspension had to be done as well. If someone runs on the field at the Cell, you'd better believe they are going to be punched in the face, regardless of the situation. And who is really hurt in all of this? Pacers fan who now get to see a bulls*** product for the rest of the season. So much for really caring about the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 not only that, but now those other rappers can't call him soft... or challenge his toughness. Thug life. Muthaf***as gonna swell up then muthaf***as gonna get clocked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Once again, Ben Wallace gets off the hook for his bulls*** overreaction to a foul that wasn't really that hard. And Jermaine O'Neal gets 25 games for punching an idiot who ran onto the floor? You've gotta be kidding me. If a fan runs on the floor, they deserve to be punched in the face. I can understand the Jackson suspension and I suppose the Artest suspension had to be done as well. If someone runs on the field at the Cell, you'd better believe they are going to be punched in the face, regardless of the situation. And who is really hurt in all of this? Pacers fan who now get to see a bulls*** product for the rest of the season. So much for really caring about the fans. I agree. A perfect example is when the so-called "Sox fans" attacked the 1st base coach of the Royals. KC players were punching the fans, should they be suspended for their actions against the fans? Of course not, so how is it any different if a fan charges onto the court, and O'Neal hits the fan? Don't tell me that he wasn't threatened either? What is the reason for a fan to charge onto the court in a brawl like that? Obviously he was out there to start stuff with the players, and O'Neal defended himself. He should be suspended for throwing a punch, but I think 10 games would have been fair. I really hope that the fans involved are punished just as severely as the players have been. This kind of behavior has to stop, and if the fans just get a slap on the wrist, than they will continue to do stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Rex, we have already gone through this. I personally think you are bulls*** and totally disregard what you have to say. Ever since you showed your true self by attempting to personally attack me for no reason you proved that you are nothing more then a want to be thug yourself. You are making excuses for fans to act like thugs. You are an old time who has no grasp of reality in regards to current societal trends(ect). You are one of those people that I was refering to. One of those people with no personal experience playing a sport at a high level. The only perspective that you have a clue about is that of a fan, so that doesn't give you the right to accurately comment on this matter, since you lack the ability to understand the situation from the other perspective. As I mentioned before, I was involved in a similar situation. My college football team was playing our division rivals, and after the game, the fans started throwing things at us. I was struck in the eye with a rock and lost vision in my right eye for 3 days. Do you have that kind of experience that allows you to accurately comment on this type of situation from both perspectives? So please don't tell me that Artest wasn't threatened(when objects were thrown at his face), or that the players weren't in any danger, or that you would have the ability to take the high road and walk away from the situation(as always you have an elevated opinion of yourself that makes me want to puke). How do you know that the Pacers personal could have gotten the players of the floor? That is just like saying the security did a good job of preventing the situation from escalating. It took a matter of seconds for things to get out of hand, so please don't pretend that it was a guarantee that the Pacers would have had the ability to get off the court, or that the fans would have remained relatively calm. Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about. I wish you could come to some of our football games and see the type of abuse that players take from fans. You never hear about the 99.9% of things that fans do to player because often the players take the abuse, but the truth of the matter is that some of the things that are done would be grounds for fines and potential jail time. The fans get away with so many things that it is unbelievable(you couldn't even begin to comprehend). Sometimes fans cross the line, and they need to be held responsible for their actions. And please don't give me this, "let the police deal with that BS", because they get a slap in the wrist(if that). A message needs to be sent to the fans that this type of behavior will not be tollerated. Answer me this, would the incident have occured if that fan didn't throw a bottle at Artest's face? So how can you defend the fans for instigating the matter? How is it not self defense when a players personal health is put in danger? How is it not self defense when fans start charging the court and threating player? You have no clue what you are talking about. I think it is past your bedtime gramps. Stick to talk about the Great Depression and other events that occured when you had an accurate grasp of reality and society, because you sound like one of those old people talking about how stamps were 2 cents, politicians were noble, kids respected their elders, ect. What are you talking about? The NBA has received some of its highest ratings over the past couple of years. Once again you have no clue what you are talking about. Are you suggesting that fans should have the right to do whatever they please just because they bought a ticket? You sound like a typical fan who never had the athletic ability to play sports at a high level, but who feels that they have a right to comment and treat athletes as they please(even though they have no experience or understanding), but what else would I expect from you. You are always right. You always take the high road. Open your eyes to reality and take a good look in the mirror old man. With that said, the players deserve to be punished. However, I just don't think it is fair that the Pacers should take on most of the punishment for the Piston fans actions. I think the Pistons as an organization should be held responsible for their fans actions. I would almost go as far as to say that the Pistons should be forced to forefeit the remained of the season. The Pistons organization needs to be punished and severely, if you want to help prevent future outcomes. Maybe fans would think twice about their actions if they knew that the team that they rooted for would be punished. Because when you boil it down, the Pacers are essentially forefeiting because of the actions of the Piston fans. What is going to stop Pacer fans from doing the exact same thing to the Pistons when they come to town(besides class)? Knowing that the potential punishment that they face is minor(if any) and the consequences for the Pistons players is severe. Until a strict message is sent to fans that this kind of behavior is unacceptable, you will continue to see similar incidents. Rex, we have already gone through this. I personally think you are bulls*** and totally disregard what you have to say. Ever since you showed your true self by attempting to personally attack me for no reason you proved that you are nothing more then a want to be thug yourself. You are making excuses for fans to act like thugs. You are an old time who has no grasp of reality in regards to current societal trends(ect). You are one of those people that I was refering to. One of those people with no personal experience playing a sport at a high level. The only perspective that you have a clue about is that of a fan, so that doesn't give you the right to accurately comment on this matter, since you lack the ability to understand the situation from the other perspective. It doesn't sound like you disregard what I say because you take the time to type nice long responses to my posts. If that makes you feel smarter, then hey, type away. I won't get into my personal bio, other than to say you have no idea what you are talking about. I played Division I baseball and participated in an NCAA Regional. I have also been involved in higher level sports in ways you do not know about. I'll leave it at that, because I don't feel the need to explain things to you further. But if you want to match resumes in terms of personal involvement in higher level athletics regardless of your excellent accomplishments (note that is an legit compliment, no BS), you would lose. So call me all the names you want. Call me an old fogey. Call me out of touch with reality. Call me stupid if you want. I could not care less. Now, put down the gloves for a second and answer this. When you got hit, did you go into the stands after someone? Did any of your teammates? If so, what happened? If not, why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm really hoping that these suspensions get reduced a bit on appeal. It just doesn't seem right to me that Artest is suspended for more games than Kermit Washington was after the Tomjonavich incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Rex, we have already gone through this. I personally think you are bulls*** and totally disregard what you have to say. Ever since you showed your true self by attempting to personally attack me f......yada yada yada... Where did ya play football at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Stephen Jackson's first game back is January 27 at home against the Pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 It doesn't sound like you disregard what I say because you take the time to type nice long responses to my posts. If that makes you feel smarter, then hey, type away. I won't get into my personal bio, other than to say you have no idea what you are talking about. I played Division I baseball and participated in an NCAA Regional. I have also been involved in higher level sports in ways you do not know about. I'll leave it at that, because I don't feel the need to explain things to you further. But if you want to match resumes in terms of personal involvement in higher level athletics regardless of your excellent accomplishments (note that is an legit compliment, no BS), you would lose. So call me all the names you want. Call me an old fogey. Call me out of touch with reality. Call me stupid if you want. I could not care less. Now, put down the gloves for a second and answer this. When you got hit, did you go into the stands after someone? Did any of your teammates? If so, what happened? If not, why not. Sort of. The fans started to charging onto the field and my teammates and I kind of meet them half way. Fortunately the coaches and security did a pretty good job of keeping things seperated. There were still punches thrown by both sides. I feel that if any object is thrown at a player it becomes a threat to them, and has the potential to cause serious injury(in my cause it didn't cause any long-term damage luckily). Does that give them enough reason to go after fans? Probably not, but personal well being and the source(instigator) of the altercation needs to be taken into consideration when dealing out punishment. It is easy to sit back and say that I would have taken the high road and just walked away, but we can't begin to understand the emotion and circumstances that surrounded the incident, so I don't think we can accurately say either way what we would have done if we were in Artest's shoes. Furthermore, there is no possible way that you can guarantee that things would have no escalated if Artest didn't go into the stands. All it takes is one bold(stupid) fan, and the rest tend to follow. That was the case in my situation. One fan started it by throwing a bottle in the direction of my teammates and I, and we did nothing, but 20-30 seconds later dozens of fans started throwing anything they could find at us. There was certainly not enough time to get our team off the field, and I am guessing that a similar situation would have occured in the Pacers/Pistons incident. If I were in charge of dealing out punishment, than I would have given the following suspensions. Artest - 30 games - The entire season was too much and a result of past events(which isn't fair). He did a great job of not reacting to Big Ben(something that has been forgotten). You have to believe that his emotions were high(anytime someone comes that close to a fight their emotions rise), and that the slightest thing would set him off(as it would almost everyone). Since he was prevoked and threatened(something being thrown at a player is threating in my book), I think that needs to be taken into consideration. 30 games is still a very large punishment. That is almost half of the remaining season, and more then enough IMO. Jackson - 30 games - His actions were not warranted in any way. You can make the weak arguement that he was trying to defend Artest, but it was clear that he had intentions of getting into a fight. He wanted to get into a fight right after the Big Ben altercation, and directed his attentions at the fans. He was not provoked or threatened(unlike Artest). O' Neal - 10 games - I think his punishment was very unjust. I think it is somewhat comparable to the Gamboa incident. Fans ran onto the field and presented a threat to the players(in this case a coach). KC players responded by beating the s*** out of the two fans. Why were they not given suspensions for punching fans that were on the field? You can say that the fan didn't present any danger, but I think it is fair to say that when a fan charges the court/field like that he has the intent to injury/threaten someone. Why else would he charge the court? So I think self defense does come into play for O'Neal, since he didn't entire the stands and look for a fight, but defended himself when a fan confronted him on the court. You still need to be punished for punch a fan though, and 10 games seems fair in my book. Wallace - 15 games - I think his actions were similar to O'Neal. He threw a punch at a person(a player instead of a fan, but should that matter). He should get an extra 5 games because he instigated the entire situation. It is fair to say that if he doesn't overract to the foul, that this incident would have never escalated to point that it did. For that Wallace deserves an additional 5 games IMO. Finally, I think the fans need more severe punishment. It is obvious that the current punishment for incidents like this does not work, since we have seen similar cases were fans have thrown objects at players and started altercations. The punishment needs to be strict enough to make fans think twice about the potential consequences that fans would receive for their actions. I am getting tired of fans that think they can get away with anything just because they bought a ticket. I do think the fans are responsible for escalating the situation, and that they should be punished severely. I am sorry that I am getting worked up, but this topic hits me in a couple of ways. Having been in a similar situation I can understand the players reactions. I am also a Pacers fan who feels that the Pacers have been cheated out of a chance to win a Championship because of a few drunk Pistons fans, and I don't feel that is just. The Pacers players actions were not called for and should not be defended because of the Piston fans(as evidence of my personal suspensions for the Pacer players), however, it just doesn't seem fair and that equal/just punishment has been given. I played D2 football and baseball at Bryant College in RI to answer your question Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I got a question, has any of the material regarding this situation stated whether or not they might let Artest play if/when the Pacers make the playoffs? I personally think the suspension is more than harsh enough already, but making him sit through the playoffs while they try to make a run to the title would make it even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 One thing I didn't notice until now, is that when Artest charged into the crowd at that guy, he never actually swung at him. Stephen Jackson, for some reason, just came in and started flailing, and the guy in the Pistons warmup jersey who was holding Artest started punching Ron in the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I got a question, has any of the material regarding this situation stated whether or not they might let Artest play if/when the Pacers make the playoffs? I personally think the suspension is more than harsh enough already, but making him sit through the playoffs while they try to make a run to the title would make it even worse. That's a good question. I think they're gonna struggle just to get to the playoffs. They probably won't let him back even if they made it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Ben "Thug Life" Wallace.... :rolly It's unbelievable. Some of y'all obviously don't watch enough basketball...shoving matches take place all the freaking time. But Ben Wallace instigated it!!!! Come on, now. I've seen Jordan shove guys. I've seen Shaq going at it with Alvin Robertson, Charles Barkley, etc. I've seen Bird throwing punches. Nobody is above it. Seriously, I'm disappointed (edit: maybe disgusted was too strong of a word) with quite a few of you. I have come to expect better. Anyone who places any blame on Wallace should not be talking about basketball, period. Ben Wallace is not a thug. He's a quiet, unassuming, big teddy-bear of a man. Do some research on his character, lifestyle, etc. This is not a malicious individual. He is the anti-Artest. Sincerely: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I've seen Bird throwing punches. For the slightly uninformed amongst you, feel free to investigate this. Bird used to get in scuffles all the time. That's Larry "Thug Life" Bird, right there. :rolly Oh yeah, Robin Ventura is a thug too. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Seriously, I'm disgusted with quite a few of you. Anyone who places any blame on Wallace should not be talking about basketball, period. LOL :banghead Just for kicks, who's fault was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 LOL :banghead Is that it? Why should Ben Wallace have to pay just because some asshole decided to throw a cup of beer at a psycho? Who throws a cup of beer onto an NBA court? And how many NBA players other than Artest have Bipolar Disorder? Can't you read between the lines, man? This is just a freak, and I mean FREAK occurence. Those two aspects clashed, and all hell broke loose. It ain't Ben's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Those two aspects clashed, and all hell broke loose. And you can rest assured that nothing like this will ever happen again. I can't believe how ruthless David Stern is. I love it. Even though I have Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson on my fantasy team... I have lost any respect that I once had for both of those clowns. Jermaine didn't have to punch that poor idiot. And the way in which he went about it...what a complete pussy. And Stephen Jackson...oh my lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 And you can rest assured that nothing like this will ever happen again. I can't believe how ruthless David Stern is. I love it. Even though I have Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson on my fantasy team... I have lost any respect that I once had for both of those clowns. Jermaine didn't have to punch that poor idiot. And the way in which he went about it...what a complete pussy. And Stephen Jackson...oh my lord. I van take them off your hand for practically nothing if you like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I think the league went overboard. I hate when people attempt to take the high road, and say that they would have done nothing if they were in Artest's(the rest of the Pacers) shoes. The fact of the matter is that very few people understand the emotion and situation that occured that night, yet they pretend to be experts with all the answers, and it makes me sick. People who say that Artest was not in any danger don't know what they are talking about. I don't care what was thrown at his face, anything thrown at a persons face is a threat for serious injury(trust me I have personal experience in a very similar situation were I lost vision in my right eye for 3 days). Even if Artest didn't charge into the stands, the situation would have escalated. All it takes is one stupid fan, and the rest will follow. As I mentioned before, if that one fans gets away with hitting Artest in the face with a bottle, with no consequences, than others will follow(especially when drunk). When objects are being thrown at you, you are outnumbered by intoxicated people, and fans start charging the court, than it is an act of self defense. It makes me sick that fans can get away with this type of behavior, and the players become victims of an uncontrollable situation. Athletes are human, and I get sick of people attempting to put them on a higher level. Should Pacer fans start throwing things at Pistons players and charge the court, because I guarantee that the Pistons players(any other teams players) would react the same way the Pacers did. Yet that wasn't even taken into consideration as evidence by the suspensions. Would this situation have occured if Wallace didn't attack Artest? No. Would this situation have occured if the fans didn't throw things at the Pacers? No. Yet the Pacers are punished for the actions of Wallace and the Piston fans. The league(Stern) needs to put himself in that situation and understand that 99% of humans would have acted in a similar way. It is human nature. I am not saying that it is right for a player to go into the stands and attack fans. The Pacers players deserve to be suspended, but the league went overboard. The Pacers championship hopes have been thrown out the window because Piston fans attacked the Pacer players. Is that just? I hope that the Pacers as an organization takes up lawsuits against the Pistons, the people in charge of the Palace, and the fans involved. I only hope that the fans involved are prosecuted the fullest extent. I hope that some of them get to spend some time in jail. They should not be allowed into another sporting event for the rest of their lives. The league has attempted to send a strong message to the players, now it is time for a message to be sent to the fans, because to often they get nothing but a slap on the wrists(if that). It is unfortunate that Artest's previous actions were taken into consideration. I guarantee that if Garnett or Duncan would have done the same thing, that their suspensions would pale in comparison. I think Jackson's suspension was the only one that was fair. O'Neal's suspension was overboard, since fans were charging the floor. That is self defense no matter what anyone says. Furthermore, it is sickening that Wallace, who started the whole thing, despite his idiotic comments that he isn't to blame(I lost all respect for Wallace and we finally get to see the true Ben Wallace), gets a slap in the wrist by comparison. The league made a mistake. The only justice is that Pistons fans will be seen as the most disgraceful fans in all of sports. Nothing but white trailor trash. Ding Ding you hit it right on the head having played sports and having a couple of intese rivalry games, and he never hit the dude he went up to until he started getting beat on then he was defending himself at that point, 12 vrs 2,000 you hit everyone near you and sort it out later if you where not apart of it there was plenty of places to escape, its not like they where guarding the doors out of the place, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 And you can rest assured that nothing like this will ever happen again. I can't believe how ruthless David Stern is. I love it. Even though I have Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson on my fantasy team... I have lost any respect that I once had for both of those clowns. Jermaine didn't have to punch that poor idiot. And the way in which he went about it...what a complete pussy. And Stephen Jackson...oh my lord. he didnt even connect he slipped on beer that eas all over the court and fell, lucky for o'neal too he had a running start and would have probally killed the guy had he conected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 That's a good question. I think they're gonna struggle just to get to the playoffs. They probably won't let him back even if they made it though. They'll make the playoffs....The East still sucks enough, that a diminished Pacers team will at least make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Is that it? Why should Ben Wallace have to pay just because some asshole decided to throw a cup of beer at a psycho? Who throws a cup of beer onto an NBA court? And how many NBA players other than Artest have Bipolar Disorder? Can't you read between the lines, man? This is just a freak, and I mean FREAK occurence. Those two aspects clashed, and all hell broke loose. It ain't Ben's fault. If Wallace never got all his panties in a bunch, the fan would have never decided to throw something. And about your next post... Jermaine got the shaft. If you're a fan on the court, you're fair game. You deserve to get the s*** beaten out of you. The fan had no intentions of doing anything good. What was he doing on the court, trying to get to the other side? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Excerpt from Dan LeBatard... Dan LeBatard The Miami Herald It is lazy to say it is the responsibility of the athletes to remain rational, calm and professional in these instances. You might not remain so rational, calm and professional if someone came into your emotion-and-intensity-soaked workplace and hit you in the head with something. And you might not remain so rational, calm and professional if you saw an angry mob surrounding your scared friend in a fight, either. Don't make the rules different for the athletes than you would make them for yourself. You don't throw chairs and beer and ice and soda and garbage at athletes or anybody else. And, if you step on the court at any time, especially during an NBA fight, you deserve to get punched in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 FWIW Greasy, I'm voting Grant Hill not Ron Artest for the 2004-2005 All - Star Game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 FWIW Greasy, I'm voting Grant Hill not Ron Artest for the 2004-2005 All - Star Game. You can vote for 2 at the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 One interesting thing that I haven't seen anywhere is the Pistons response for these fans. Hopefully they are revoking all of their season tickets for people who were involved in this. Both the beer throwers and the people who ended up on the court violated the terms of their season tickets. I am curious if anyone else has heard anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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