babybearhater Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I would agree with that theory if Adkins underwent a heavy workload this season and didn't have plenty of minor league experience in terms of innings under his belt. Had he pitched a vast amount more innings then any previous season or anything along those lines I'd agree with that. I do hope he turns out to be a good reliever, I just have my doubts. But I do think he could be a solid mop up guy. Minor league innings do not neccessarily translate to major league innings, nor the amount of games played in a row, or the extra training undergone when you have to pitch in the bullpen in different roles. It doesnt matter which sport it is, or what he did the year before, every rookie has trouble keeping their energy level up their first year in the big show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Minor league innings do not neccessarily translate to major league innings, nor the amount of games played in a row, or the extra training undergone when you have to pitch in the bullpen in different roles. It doesnt matter which sport it is, or what he did the year before, every rookie has trouble keeping their energy level up their first year in the big show I disagree when it comes to baseball because minor leauge baseball is supposed to help better prepare players to be ready for a full season of baseball. If we were talking about Mark Prior, who basically jumped straight from college to the bigs then I understand the fatigue factor. But Jon Adkins has had lots of minor league experience and that is professional experience. The total games in the minors is a little less, but Adkins has pitched in numerous levels. He had 4/5 full seasons in the minors which prepared himself for the majors. You can't give the excuse that he was rushed, in some instances being rushed is a perfectly good excuse and its something that happens way too often. Prospects are brought up to learn on the fly instead of learning the fundementals down below and because of it you see teams like the White Sox for example have problems with fundementals. The Twins seem to preach a different philosphy and its paid off well for them since for whatever reason their players tend to come up fundementally prepared. It could simply be the type of guys they draft. Instead of going after high ceiling guys they go after the ones that can play defense, handle the bat, although scouts will tell you they have limited potential. But its amazing what a smart player with some athletic ability can do. Adkins has played in 122 games over 5 minor league seasons, pitching a total of 590 innings. He made 50 appearances with the White Sox in 2004, which definately was a career high considering he has rarely been used primarily as a reliever. Hell, I begun this argument disagreeing with you on Adkins but in a sense considering the workload in terms of games pitched and him not being super used to the difference out of the pen I think you may just be onto something. Of course I still wonder what happened to Adkins fastball. Two years ago I saw him throw and he was as advertised, mid 90's, topping out around 96-97. Now the guns could of been a little off, but for at least parts of this season he was pretty much 90-91 although at othertimes you would see him around 93-94. Now he was much more poised on the mound and his mechanics seemed a little smoother. I remember reading something about him feeling he had a much better rhythm on the mound and it helped him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Munoz and Diaz both showed flashes of being servicable ML pitchers. It wouldn't surprise me at all if both ended up on the Sox roster to start 2005. The Sox did a very good job with managing the development of Adkins and Cotts in 2004 by working them is very fixed situations, and I could see them doing the same in 05 with Munoz and Diaz. If these guys make the team then our team will not win this year. I realize I am in the minority when I say both of these guys will not make it long term. That is my opinion. Munoz will hang longer due to the fact that he is a lefty. Good throw in for a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 You can name about 20 guys in the Sox system who are good throw ins for a trade, no revelation there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 You can name about 20 guys in the Sox system who are good throw ins for a trade, no revelation there. Agreed but if you actaully read the thread many feel good about these two chaps. Quite frankly they are wasting my fan time with there crappy pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Agreed but if you actaully read the thread many feel good about these two chaps. Quite frankly they are wasting my fan time with there crappy pitching. I see nothing in Diaz, his fastball is straight as an arrow. Munoz has promise but as a situational guy IMO. He's too small to start and his pitches start flattening out. The guy with the most live arm is Grilli, too bad his control is a mess. PS - Oh, and how many HR's did Rogowski have in the AFL, did you look that up? I'll bet you find it was the same number I quoted ... off the top of my head BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 If these guys make the team then our team will not win this year. I realize I am in the minority when I say both of these guys will not make it long term. That is my opinion. Munoz will hang longer due to the fact that he is a lefty. Good throw in for a trade. actually, I agree with you... i can see potential in Adkins. He has some great movement on some of his pitches at times. But he had a minor league ERA over 4.50... That's not a recipe for major league sucess.. Cotts did a great job avoiding the the HR in the minors, and that, specifically, has been his problem at the major league level. He had much better peripherals at the minors too. He's much more likely to succeed at the Majors. I really only see one of them panning out long term. so, if they are BOTH on the team, I agree with you, and say we're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I see nothing in Diaz, his fastball is straight as an arrow. Munoz has promise but as a situational guy IMO. He's too small to start and his pitches start flattening out. The guy with the most live arm is Grilli, too bad his control is a mess. Please lets not start praising grilli and sayign the sox should give him a chance. The guy will be a lifetime minor league player that will come up for an injured pitcher and pitch a few times a year. That's his role as far as I am concerned. The Sox have gone too many years without a fifth starter to start thinking about this guy now. Go and get yourself a major league pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Please lets not start praising grilli and sayign the sox should give him a chance. The guy will be a lifetime minor league player that will come up for an injured pitcher and pitch a few times a year. That's his role as far as I am concerned. The Sox have gone too many years without a fifth starter to start thinking about this guy now. Go and get yourself a major league pitcher. They should have a settled 1-5 rotation this offseason instead of leaving it to guesswork. Barring that ... bring in 3-4 candidates on minor league deals and see who rises to the top. I much prefer the first scenario, this has gone on too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 They should have a settled 1-5 rotation this offseason instead of leaving it to guesswork. Barring that ... bring in 3-4 candidates on minor league deals and see who rises to the top. I much prefer the first scenario, this has gone on too long. Oh yeah because garland will be traded rigth? ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Oh yeah because garland will be traded rigth? ! Doesn't matter if he is or isn't. Only thing that matters is if you've got a really good #1-5. Who cares if Garland is part of that, if so, fine, he's #5. That is if they're serious about winning. If Garland is traded, they need to sign two guys. Simple, assuming another pitcher doesn't come back in trade. You had the Chairman on the radio last week talking about the 5th starter spot, that should mean something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Doesn't matter if he is or isn't. Only thing that matters is if you've got a really good #1-5. Who cares if Garland is part of that, if so, fine, he's #5. That is if they're serious about winning. If Garland is traded, they need to sign two guys. Simple, assuming another pitcher doesn't come back in trade. You had the Chairman on the radio last week talking about the 5th starter spot, that should mean something. Agreed about the chairman. I think they will ahve a 1-5 prior to spring training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Agreed about the chairman. I think they will ahve a 1-5 prior to spring training Where will Konerko, Garland, Borchard, Ordonez, and Crede end up? I have your PM of what you thought would happen to a few guys, and since your insight is good, I was wondering if you could share it with the rest of the people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Borchard in Charlotte, as a throw in, or in Chicago as a reserve outfielder. Konerko will be in Chicago or Arizona, imo. Ordonez in New York, Baltimore, or San Francisco Crede in Chicago. Garland in Chicago, Arizona, Oakland, or Pittsburgh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Where will Konerko, Garland, Borchard, Ordonez, and Crede end up? I have your PM of what you thought would happen to a few guys, and since your insight is good, I was wondering if you could share it with the rest of the people here. Borchard will have to earn his way back to the Majors and once there will have to earn his playing time. Last year with Maggs down and Everett not being able to run there was no alternative for Ozzie to use from the right side. If Everett could have played OF I doubt Borch would have gotten nearly as many at bats. I like Joe Bo and wish him the best but he has a hard row to hoe now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 you know some people dont think munoz and diaz arent going to be any good in the major leagues... and as starters i agree with you especially in munoz's case but these guys both pitched well in the pen and i would love to have diaz in the sox pen next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I don't get all of these guys judging Diaz on a few starts he had when he was jerked around. The guy had a dominating year at AAA. The guy has talent and either out of the pen or maybe even beating out Grilli for a rotation spot the kid will be a big part of 05' in some form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Buddy our number 5 positon sucked for how many yrs. Look at the number. Kenny and ozzie are sick of that crap. Go for good starting pitching its time to get number 5 guy settled and get wins. No more losing games cause of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 We can only hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Diaz, Munoz, Grilli, etc are all very big question marks. We need to have the abyss aka the 5th starter filled and filled solidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I just read on whitesox.com that there are only 2 pitching spots open for the '05 season. The beat writer, Scott Merkin said that barring a trade those 2 spots figure to be filled by a combination of Grilli, Munoz, Diaz, and Bajaneru. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but that sounds like no plans for a FA signing? I don't have the link, but it's under The White Sox mailbag and the subtitle is something to the effect of Magglio being risky. The paragraph I just described is under the question about Ryan Meaux. I'm getting that sinking feeling again, and yes, I know it's only November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I just read on whitesox.com that there are only 2 pitching spots open for the '05 season. The beat writer, Scott Merkin said that barring a trade those 2 spots figure to be filled by a combination of Grilli, Munoz, Diaz, and Bajaneru. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but that sounds like no plans for a FA signing? I don't have the link, but it's under The White Sox mailbag and the subtitle is something to the effect of Magglio being risky. The paragraph I just described is under the question about Ryan Meaux. I'm getting that sinking feeling again, and yes, I know it's only November. Well, we know they've contacted Matt Clement's people and have also talked to Steve Boras about one of his pitchers, so they are exploring the FA angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Well, we know they've contacted Matt Clement's people and have also talked to Steve Boras about one of his pitchers, so they are exploring the FA angle. I heard on The Score yesterday I believe that The Indians are the front runner for Clement. Also, it was said that The Cubs have interest in Tony Womack, does that mean the end for Todd Walker. Womack would be a huge mistake, IMO, I hope The Cubs do sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I heard on The Score yesterday I believe that The Indians are the front runner for Clement. Also, it was said that The Cubs have interest in Tony Womack, does that mean the end for Todd Walker. Womack would be a huge mistake, IMO, I hope The Cubs do sign him. Clement did say the Indians were showing the most interest. That doesn't mean the Sox were not showing any. As for Womack, he had a damn good year in St. Louis and I suggested him a few weeks ago as a possibility for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Clement did say the Indians were showing the most interest. That doesn't mean the Sox were not showing any. As for Womack, he had a damn good year in St. Louis and I suggested him a few weeks ago as a possibility for the Sox. He had an excellent year for St. Louis. I just don't see him doing it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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