sox4lifeinPA Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Romans 1 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. just curious, but what part of that is favorable towards practicing homosexuals? I mean, it's clear that I'm the biggest bigot on the block... but what happens when we realize that God is one too? hmmm. yeah, that's right...he's "all-inclusive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 It may just be me but we don't really need to fire this one back up. People are at each other's throats already....let's just instead predict how well my first senior basketball jamboree will go tomorrow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Did I ever tell you that I think you're cute PA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Here we go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 If I thought you would listen I would maken an intelligent well thought out reply. Since you don't care about any views that aren't your own I see no point in attempting a dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Did I ever tell you that I think you're cute PA? *blushes* and I just thought you buffed your nails for sanitary reasons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Just want to make a post to make sure everyone is careful in this thread and that they stay away from personal attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 If I thought you would listen I would maken an intelligent well thought out reply. Since you don't care about any views that aren't your own I see no point in attempting a dialogue. I'd be interested in discussing how christians reconcile the sin that is homosexuality and Christ's call to reach out and love every person regardless of sin. I'd never suggest persecution of any group, but I will fight vehemently if someone tries to hijack what Christ's true intentions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I'd be interested in discussing how christians reconcile the sin that is homosexuality and Christ's call to reach out and love every person regardless of sin. I'd never suggest persecution of any group, but I will fight vehemently if someone tries to hijack what Christ's true intentions were. And I would still argue that biblically, homosexuality is no different than any other sin. Priests by their very nature are sinners. If we expected them to have no sins, there would be no elders. The focus on homosexuality dispite the other sins the church condones borders on herocy. The church now condones divorce despite the very obvious biblical verses against it. I honestly believe the schisms over the subject are taking away from God's ultimate message of love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I mean, it's clear that I'm the biggest bigot on the block...[/color] but what happens when we realize that God is one too? Go back to the drawing board and concoct another God, Silly. This time, let's give him the best of man's traits rather than the worst of them though, OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 This was by a Christian pal of mine: If we insist on placing ourselves under the old law, as Paul reminds us, we are obligated to keep every commandment of the law (Gal. 5:3). But if Christ is the end of the law (Rom. 10:4), if we have been discharged from the law to serve, not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6), then all of these biblical sexual mores come under the authority of the Spirit. We cannot then take even what Paul himself says as a new Law. The Bible sanctioned slavery as well, and nowhere attacked it as unjust. Are we prepared to argue today that slavery is biblically justified? One hundred and fifty years ago, when the debate over slavery was raging, the Bible seemed to be clearly on the slaveholders' side. Abolitionists were hard pressed to justify their opposition to slavery on biblical grounds. Yet today, if you were to ask Christians in the South whether the Bible sanctions slavery, virtually everyone would agree that it does not. How do we account for such a monumental shift? For Christians, Old Testament texts have to be weighed against the New. Consequently, Paul's unambiguous condemnation of homosexual behavior in Rom. 1:26-27 must be the centerpiece of any discussion. "For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." No doubt Paul was unaware of the distinction between sexual orientation, over which one has apparently very little choice, and sexual behavior, over which one does. He seemed to assume that those whom he condemned were heterosexuals who were acting contrary to nature, "leaving", "giving up" or "exchanging" their regular sexual orientation for that which was foreign to them. Paul knew nothing of the modern psychosexual understanding of homosexuals as persons whose orientation is fixed early in life or perhaps even genetically in some cases. For such persons, having heterosexual relations would be contrary to nature, "leaving", "giving up" or "exchanging" their natural sexual orientation for one that was unnatural to them. In other words, Paul really thought that those whose behavior he condemned were "straight" and that they were behaving in ways that were unnatural to them. Paul believed that everyone was "straight". he had no concept of homosexual orientation. The idea was not available in his world. There are people that are genuinely homosexual by nature (whether genetically or as a result of upbringing nobody really knows and it is irrelevent). For such a person it would be acting contrary to nature to have sexual relations with a person of the opposite sex. Likewise, the relationships Paul describes are heavy with lust; they are not relationships between consenting adults who are committed to each other as faithfully and with as much integrity as any heterosexual couple. That was something Paul simply could not envision. Some people assume today that venereal disease and AIDS are divine punishment for homosexual behavior; we know it as a risk involved in promiscuity of every stripe, homosexual and heterosexual. In fact, the vast majority of people with AIDS the world around are heterosexuals. We can scarcely label AIDS a divine punishment, since non-promiscuous lesbians are at almost no risk. And Paul believes that homosexual behavior is contrary to nature, whereas we have learned that it is manifested by a wide variety of species, especially (but not solely) under the pressure of overpopulation. It would appear then to be quite a natural mechanism for preserving species. We cannot, of course, decide human ethical conduct solely on the basis of animal behavior or the human sciences but Paul here is arguing from nature, as he himself says, and new knowledge of what is "natural" is therefore relevent to the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I'd be interested in discussing how christians reconcile the sin that is homosexuality and Christ's call to reach out and love every person regardless of sin. I'd never suggest persecution of any group, but I will fight vehemently if someone tries to hijack what Christ's true intentions were. Then, I would just like to point out that what the title of this thread implies: Romans. In my opinion Paul is talking about the ritualistic sexual/plain old sexual precedent that was set forth in the Ancient Greek (and later adopted by the Romans). This ritualistic sex between men was strongly associated with the pagan gods--who believed that love between two men was the highest of all (see Plato's Symposium for example). This type of sexual act bears nothing in common with what we now deam homosexuality (which, you certainly know is a modern term). I only agrue that here these sexual acts are tied as strongly to pagan tradition (and not relationships) as the food that Paul forbids Christians to eat if sacrificied to pagan gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Romans 1 just curious, but what part of that is favorable towards practicing homosexuals? I mean, it's clear that I'm the biggest bigot on the block... but what happens when we realize that God is one too? hmmm. yeah, that's right...he's "all-inclusive". See, the great thing about fiction is that you can say whatever you want to say. You don't need facts, truth, logic, or anything! Don't knock it, it kept Dr. Seuss in business for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 It may just be me but we don't really need to fire this one back up. People are at each other's throats already....let's just instead predict how well my first senior basketball jamboree will go tomorrow..... Better than your tennis performance this year I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 People can call it or believe it's fiction if they so choose. That's one of your constitutional rights in this nation. Conversely, people can also choose to believe in God, Jesus, the Bible and faith. That's my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.