*Official* College Basketball Thread

[SnB]

That sound like a statement from a person who has never watched a game before.

 

By the way, my wish is that Duke could be a 16 seed in Illinois' bracket, so finally this "undefeated" team could be put away and everyone will stop talking about them. They deserve it though, it's tough going through the rigors of the Big Ten

 

and duke deserves all the respect they get?

Oh yeah, that's right, your gonna say yes, you made that idiotic thread earlier in the year.

[WHarris1]

That sound like a statement from a person who has never watched a game before.

 

By the way, my wish is that Duke could be a 16 seed in Illinois' bracket, so finally this "undefeated" team could be put away and everyone will stop talking about them. They deserve it though, it's tough going through the rigors of the Big Ten

Yeah and when they had a chance to play a top ACC team they destroyed them.

I know it's hard dealing with the Dookies being down, but it's ok, we can get through this.

 

I'm sure Cincy, Gonzaga, MSU, Wiscy, Wake are all pus overs.

 

LMAO, Virginia Tech.

[Rowand44]

That sound like a statement from a person who has never watched a game before.

 

By the way, my wish is that Duke could be a 16 seed in Illinois' bracket, so finally this "undefeated" team could be put away and everyone will stop talking about them. They deserve it though, it's tough going through the rigors of the Big Ten

Butter, there is 0 chance Duke could beat Illinois in a NCAA tournament game. Illinois right now is the elite team in the nation while Duke isn't. I don't really feel like writing a whole paragraph on my thoughts about Redick but there are some people here who know exactly how I feel about him. Anyways go Duke

[Gene Honda Civic]

'Zona's quietly back in the mix of things this year.  They beat Washington 57-56 last night.  Last night's victory gave Lute Olson 304 wins in the Pac-10, tied with UCLA coach John Wooden for most wins ever in the league.

That was Washington State... It's sorta like the difference between beating Michigan and Michigan State. (sorry brian)

[Butter Parque]

and duke deserves all the respect they get?

Oh yeah, that's right, your gonna say yes, you made that idiotic thread earlier in the year. 

 

3 CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!

 

THATS HOW YOU EARN RESPECT

 

Come back when Illinois gets one!

 

Until Illinois proves that it deserves to be respected like basketball gods, why should they.

 

Sure a perfect record is unbelievable, especially when you've beaten some quality opponents, but your SOS is 48th, and you play in one of (if not), thee weakest major conference in college basketball. You haven't won your conference tournament yet, you haven't gone into the NCAA's yet, for all anyone knows, you could be this year's Stanford.

 

With Duke, everyone knows that they are going to be major players in the tournament. They've won 3 championships, and this year have beaten:

 

Michigan State

North Carolina

Wake Forest

Georgia Tech 2x

Virginia Tech

Miami

Oklahoma

North Carolina State

 

If Illinois came into the ACC, how many road games would they win, they'd be lucky just like everyone else in the conference, to stay at .500

[ZoomSlowik]

3 CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!

 

THATS HOW YOU EARN RESPECT

 

Come back when Illinois gets one!

 

Until Illinois proves that it deserves to be respected like basketball gods, why should they.

 

Sure a perfect record is unbelievable, especially when you've beaten some quality opponents, but your SOS is 48th, and you play in one of (if not), thee weakest major conference in college basketball. You haven't won your conference tournament yet, you haven't gone into the NCAA's yet, for all anyone knows, you could be this year's Stanford.

 

With Duke, everyone knows that they are going to be major players in the tournament. They've won 3 championships, and this year have beaten:

 

Michigan State

North Carolina

Wake Forest

Georgia Tech 2x

Virginia Tech

Miami

Oklahoma

North Carolina State

 

If Illinois came into the ACC, how many road games would they win, they'd be lucky just like everyone else in the conference, to stay at .500

 

The history of a school doesn't matter in a given year. That has no bearing on how good this team or in any way affect what they have done. By that logic UCLA and Indiana are teams to be reckoned with this year, and clearly they aren't. Just face the facts, Duke isn't as good as they normally are and Illinois has a very good team this year.

 

Several of those wins you are recounting aren't even that solid. Georgia Tech has been struggling all year and has an RPI of only 53. Miami is at 48, Virginia Tech is at a measly 89, and NC State is at a seriously unimpressive 111. Plus, all of their quality wins came at home, and they got swept by a Maryland team that hasn't done much other than beat Duke twice. Duke is far from the powerhouse they normally are, so unless the NCAA creates a new rule allowing Elton Brand and Shane Battier to play in the tournament this year, they're not going to beat Illinois on a neutral court.

[T R U]

The history of a school doesn't matter in a given year. That has no bearing on how good this team or in any way affect what they have done. By that logic UCLA and Indiana are teams to be reckoned with this year, and clearly they aren't. Just face the facts, Duke isn't as good as they normally are and Illinois has a very good team this year.

 

Several of those wins you are recounting aren't even that solid. Georgia Tech has been struggling all year and has an RPI of only 53. Miami is at 48, Virginia Tech is at a measly 89, and NC State is at a seriously unimpressive 111. Plus, all of their quality wins came at home, and they got swept by a Maryland team that hasn't done much other than beat Duke twice. Duke is far from the powerhouse they normally are, so unless the NCAA creates a new rule allowing Elton Brand and Shane Battier to play in the tournament this year, they're not going to beat Illinois on a neutral court.

 

and by the way things are looking Illinois is going to be in a home setting for all their tournament games

[ZoomSlowik]

and by the way things are looking Illinois is going to be in a home setting for all their tournament games

 

You're right, in Indianapolis and Chicago it will probably be heavily pro-Illini, and St. Louis isn't exactly a long trip either.

Edited February 26, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Butter Parque]

The history of a school doesn't matter in a given year. That has no bearing on how good this team or in any way affect what they have done. By that logic UCLA and Indiana are teams to be reckoned with this year, and clearly they aren't. Just face the facts, Duke isn't as good as they normally are and Illinois has a very good team this year.

 

Several of those wins you are recounting aren't even that solid. Georgia Tech has been struggling all year and has an RPI of only 53. Miami is at 48, Virginia Tech is at a measly 89, and NC State is at a seriously unimpressive 111. Plus, all of their quality wins came at home, and they got swept by a Maryland team that hasn't done much other than beat Duke twice. Duke is far from the powerhouse they normally are, so unless the NCAA creates a new rule allowing Elton Brand and Shane Battier to play in the tournament this year, they're not going to beat Illinois on a neutral court.

 

Obviously you didn't read prior posts. It said why would Duke be getting respect every year. It gets respect because of it's past and present. It's always a final four contender, whether they have the best talent or the worst talent becuase when it comes down to it, they just win.

 

As for your remark that Duke's quality wins have come at home. First, we beat Oklahoma at the Garden. We beat Georgia Tech both at home and on the road, we beat NC State on the road, we haven't played North Carolina on the road yet, and we only lost by 3, with a chance to win it, against Wake on the road. Those are called quality wins. It's not like we get to face Northwestern twice a year, or Penn State, or Michigan State, or Purdue, or Minnesoata, or Ohio State. It's damn near impossible for an ACC team to have a .500 conference road record.

[SnB]

Obviously you didn't read prior posts. It said why would Duke be getting respect every year. It gets respect because of it's past and present. It's always a final four contender, whether they have the best talent or the worst talent becuase when it comes down to it, they just win.

 

As for your remark that Duke's quality wins have come at home. First, we beat Oklahoma at the Garden. We beat Georgia Tech both at home and on the road, we beat NC State on the road, we haven't played North Carolina on the road yet, and we only lost by 3, with a chance to win it, against Wake on the road. Those are called quality wins. It's not like we get to face Northwestern twice a year, or Penn State, or Michigan State, or Purdue, or Minnesoata, or Ohio State. It's damn near impossible for an ACC team to have a .500 conference road record.

 

there is absolutely nothing illinois about playing those type of teams during conference play. They're stuck playing those games and they win them, decisively.

Their non-conference schedule was pretty damn good. There's reason why even Dick Vitale gives illinois its due this year.

[ZoomSlowik]

Obviously you didn't read prior posts. It said why would Duke be getting respect every year. It gets respect because of it's past and present. It's always a final four contender, whether they have the best talent or the worst talent becuase when it comes down to it, they just win.

 

As for your remark that Duke's quality wins have come at home. First, we beat Oklahoma at the Garden. We beat Georgia Tech both at home and on the road, we beat NC State on the road, we haven't played North Carolina on the road yet, and we only lost by 3, with a chance to win it, against Wake on the road. Those are called quality wins. It's not like we get to face Northwestern twice a year, or Penn State, or Michigan State, or Purdue, or Minnesoata, or Ohio State. It's damn near impossible for an ACC team to have a .500 conference road record.

 

No, you've been specifically talking about how this year's Duke team hasn't been getting respect and that they are great, not the prior Duke teams that actually were. And none of those road wins are quality wins. Beating ranked teams on the road are quality wins, which has not happened for Duke. Oklahoma on the road is the one solid road/neutral win, and they're not THAT good, especially since they played them before Oklahoma got on a roll. The Illini played Cinci at a neutral court and won at MSU and at Wisconsin, two of the toughest places to win. Not every team in the ACC is that good, there's a reason they're only going to get 4 or 5 teams in the tourney. Everyone's opinions concerning the strength of the ACC is clouded based on how much stronger UNC, Wake, and Duke are than everyone else. Clemson and Florida State are just as bad as the weakest teams in the Big Ten, and NC State and Virginia are pretty hapless too. If it wasn't for injuries and suspensions at Michigan and Iowa the Big Ten might have actually finished higher(or at least pretty close) in the RPI than the ACC. More importantly, the difference isn't that severe that you can logically say that a 4 loss team in the ACC is better than an undefeated team in the Big Ten, especially when Illinois has played stronger teams out of conference (their out of conference RPI is lower because of a couple of really bad teams in the one tournament, but they played 3 major teams in Gonzaga, Wake, and Cincinnati). Duke is probably the 3rd best team in the ACC and you're trying to make them the be all and end all of college basketball.

Edited February 26, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Spiff]

Actually, if you ever watched a college basketball game or ever heard anyone talk about JJ Redick, you would have learned or seen that he has become one of the best players in the country at driving to the basket and drawing fouls. Whe he gets to the line, it's automatic. You would have also learned that he has improved his defense dramatically, if you saw the UNC game, you saw that, just ask Rashad McCants.

With a statement like yours above, it shows just how little you know about college basketball, so before you make remarks, think. Should have known, coming from a Illinois fan. By the way, who was the last team to beat Illinois? Just a question.

 

 

You're right about Redick, he's drastically improved his offensive game in the last year or so. He's more than just a spot-up shooter.

 

Sometimes I really wonder if the statements some people make here involve any actual observation, or just regurgitated general opinion.

[Butter Parque]

No, you've been specifically talking about how this year's Duke team hasn't been getting respect and that they are great, not the prior Duke teams that actually were. And none of those road wins are quality wins. Beating ranked teams on the road are quality wins, which has not happened for Duke. Oklahoma on the road is the one solid road/neutral win, and they're not THAT good, especially since they played them before Oklahoma got on a roll. The Illini played Cinci at a neutral court and won at MSU and at Wisconsin, two of the toughest places to win. Not every team in the ACC is that good, there's a reason they're only going to get 4 or 5 teams in the tourney. Everyone's opinions concerning the strength of the ACC is clouded based on how much stronger UNC, Wake, and Duke are than everyone else. Clemson and Florida State are just as bad as the weakest teams in the Big Ten, and NC State and Virginia are pretty hapless too. If it wasn't for injuries and suspensions at Michigan and Iowa the Big Ten might have actually finished higher(or at least pretty close) in the RPI than the ACC. More importantly, the difference isn't that severe that you can logically say that a 4 loss team in the ACC is better than an undefeated team in the Big Ten, especially when Illinois has played stronger teams out of conference (their out of conference RPI is lower because of a couple of really bad teams in the one tournament, but they played 3 major teams in Gonzaga, Wake, and Cincinnati). Duke is probably the 3rd best team in the ACC and you're trying to make them the be all and end all of college basketball.

 

 

If you actually believe that the Big Ten is even close to as good even with Michigan and Iowa, then you have completely lost your mind. First off, bot have run crooked programs to put themselves in the positions they are in. 2nd off, the Big Ten isn't even half the conference that the ACC is.

 

If Georgia Tech, NC State, or Maryland was in the Big ten, I guarantee that they would have at least 20 wins by now. Like I said before, it's damn near impossible to win on the road in the ACC. This season in the ACC has been weird because good teams are just beating each other up and it's taken a toll on everyone's records. If these teams were separated from each other, it's obvious everyone's records would be much better.

 

The fact is, is that Illinois' SOS is 48th. Is it fair to Duke to have to play a tough non-conference schedule and then play a brutal conference shedule?

 

 

As for your 1st paragraph, I posted that res[ect thing a long time ago, this was regarding Duke getting the respect they always get over the years and Illinois wanting more respect. Duke deserves it for what they've done year after year. Illinois hasn't won anything.

[whitesoxfan99]

If you actually believe that the Big Ten is even close to as good even with Michigan and Iowa, then you have completely lost your mind. First off, bot have run crooked programs to put themselves in the positions they are in. 2nd off, the Big Ten isn't even half the conference that the ACC is.

 

If Georgia Tech, NC State, or Maryland was in the Big ten, I guarantee that they would have at least 20 wins by now. Like I said before, it's damn near impossible to win on the road in the ACC. This season in the ACC has been weird because good teams are just beating each other up and it's taken a toll on everyone's records. If these teams were separated from each other, it's obvious everyone's records would be much better.

 

The fact is, is that Illinois' SOS is 48th. Is it fair to Duke to have to play a tough non-conference schedule and then play a brutal conference shedule?

As for your 1st paragraph, I posted that res[ect thing a long time ago, this was regarding Duke getting the respect they always get over the years and Illinois wanting more respect. Duke deserves it for what they've done year after year. Illinois hasn't won anything.

 

Georiga Tech just isn't a very good team this year period. They almost lost to UIC (and should have if the officials didn't rob UIC). They lost their only two real non conference games to Gonzaga and then to Kansas who was without Simien. Maryland outside of beating Duke hasn't done a damn thing all year. Their non conference schedule was a joke and their biggest win was against a very mediocre Memphis team and they lost to Wisconsin and George Washington. Plus they have lost to Clemson twice. NC St. just isn't good either. They got hammered by a bad St. Johns team, got hammered by a mediocre West Virginia team struggled big time at home against Purdue and their only decent wins all year are against Georgia Tech and Maryland.

 

SOS is not a very good indicator of how difficult a schedule really is either. Look at Illinois and Ok. St. They have played the same amount of games vs. top 50 teams, Illinois is 7-0 Ok. St. 4-3. Illinois has played one more game against the 51100 ranked teams 8-0 vs. 7-0. They have also played the same amount of games vs. 101-200 ranked teams. However, because Illinois played terrible cupcakes 200+ their SOS falls to the 40s as opposed to Ok. St. who has the 3rd rank SOS. Not to mention, Illinois is 14-0 in road or neutral court games. They have twice as many wins in those games as Duke has.

 

Duke's non conference schedule.

Tenn-Martin W

Davidson W

NC Greensboro W

Michigan St. W

@ Valpo W

Toledo W

UIC W

Oklahoma W

Princeton W

Temple W

 

Illinois non conference schedule

Delaware St. W

Florida A&M W

Oakland W

Gonzaga (neutral court) W

Wake Forest W

@Arkansas (not Arkansas true home court admittedly) W

Chicago St. W

@Georgetown W

Oregon (Chicago I'll count this as a home game) W

Valpo W

Missouri (neutral court) W

Longwood (RPI killer) W

Northwestern St. (neutral court) W

Cincinnati (neutral court) W

 

Anyone who thinks Duke really played a tougher non-conference scheudle based on that is an idiot.

[ZoomSlowik]

If you actually believe that the Big Ten is even close to as good even with Michigan and Iowa, then you have completely lost your mind. First off, bot have run crooked programs to put themselves in the positions they are in. 2nd off, the Big Ten isn't even half the conference that the ACC is.

 

If Georgia Tech, NC State, or Maryland was in the Big ten, I guarantee that they would have at least 20 wins by now. Like I said before, it's damn near impossible to win on the road in the ACC. This season in the ACC has been weird because good teams are just beating each other up and it's taken a toll on everyone's records. If these teams were separated from each other, it's obvious everyone's records would be much better.

 

The fact is, is that Illinois' SOS is 48th. Is it fair to Duke to have to play a tough non-conference schedule and then play a brutal conference shedule?

As for your 1st paragraph, I posted that res[ect thing a long time ago, this was regarding Duke getting the respect they always get over the years and Illinois wanting more respect. Duke deserves it for what they've done year after year. Illinois hasn't won anything.

 

Your comments concerning the rules violations at Michigan and Iowa are way off base. The problems at Michigan and Iowa happened well before any of these current players were even enrolled in the school. That has nothing to do with the current team. Pierce and Horton are the ones that messed up, that has nothing to do with running a bad program. Everyone has problems with a player now and then. For instance, Duke had to forfeit the money earned from finishing second in 98 because Corey Maggette took money from an AUU coach. Even then, that has nothing to do with the rash of injuries that has affected other key players at Michigan. Both of those teams could easily be ranked if they had all of their players right now.

 

You're drastically overrating how hard it is to win on the road in the ACC. It's hard to win on the road in every conference, the ACC isn't really that special. And obviously it isn't "nearly impossible" to finish .500 on the road in the ACC when the top couple of teams do it every year, much like UNC, Wake, and Duke right now. The ACC is tougher, but it is not some kind of super conference. Hell, it isn't even the top ranked conference in the country because it doesn't have as much depth as the Big East. The 4 and 5th best teams are not going to switch conferences and magically fix all of their problems. Georgia Tech hasn't been the same team as last year and has struggled mightily since Elder went down. The way they played in their losses it won't matter if it's Virginia Tech or Minnesota. NC State sucks this year, outside of Hodge their team is a collection of mediocrity. They'll have their good games every once in a while, but they are not a 20 win team in any major conference. They're a Julius Hodge injury away from being worse than Northwestern. I'll give you Maryland, however, since they are probably going to finish with 17 wins maybe 18 as it is. Look at the win totals in both conferences though, there isn't really any difference. The Big Ten has 6 teams with 17 wins or more, the ACC only has the big 3. There's only like a 1 win difference for every team if you look at the standings for each conference. Apparently you don't watch enough non-ACC basketball, because teams like Minnesota, Ohio State, and Iowa before the Pierce incident have played pretty well. The two conferences are similar outside of the top 4 teams in each conference. The Big Ten has only one really good team while the ACC has three. That's the only real difference, every team in the ACC has 1 or two extra losses because few teams can beat Duke, Wake, and UNC. The rest of the conference is pretty much identical.

 

The numbers don't tell the whole truth concerning scheduling. Games like Florida A&M and Longwood are drastically dragging down Illinois' out of conference schedule. The fact is, they played 3 ranked teams and 4 other major conference schools. Duke didn't take on a whole lot of good teams, the current RPI structure just favors mid-majors because they play on the road more. They played one good team in MSU, a decent one in Oklahoma, and one pretty good mid-major in Davidson. Temple and Princeton look good for the computers but aren't really that tough. They had a bunch of cupcakes in there too, don't try to pretend that Tennessee Martin and UNC Greensboro are real games. Come on, Valpo, Toledo, UIC? Basically the computers that do strength of schedule think your cupcakes were tougher than Illinois'. That doesn't really mean anything.

Edited February 26, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[southsider2k5]

UK has had an incredible 2nd half to erase a 14 point deficit at Alabama in what is basically the early SEC title game. Sparks has gone 7-10 from 3 point range and Kentucky has shot over 70% in the 2nd half.

[southsider2k5]

Also Jim Boeheim wins his 700th career game as the Orange blow out Providence at Cuse. Congrats to Coach B.

[southsider2k5]

UK beats Alabama 78-71 in Birmingham

[southsider2k5]

Purdue is leading Minnesota by 12 just into the 2nd half in Gene Keady's final home game. This would really hurt the Gophers Big Dance chances.

[greasywheels121]

Purdue is leading Minnesota by 12 just into the 2nd half in Gene Keady's final home game.  This would really hurt the Gophers Big Dance chances.

 

I think this is the one last time you'll see me pulling for Purdue for a while. Keady's just class; I want to see him close his career at Mackey w/ a win.

[Brian]

It's Official! Salukis knock off Witchita State in Carbondale, 65-55, to clinch their 4th straight MVC conference title!!!!

[greasywheels121]

Minnesota got back in this real fast....

 

50-48 Minnesota w/ 6:15 left...

Edited February 26, 2005 by greasywheels121

[greasywheels121]

Ouch. Purdue just didn't have enough fire power to hold off Minnesota towards the end of the 2nd half. Minnesota wins 59-57, in Keady's final home game. Purdue had a couple shots in their last two possessions to take it into overtime or win it, but couldn't get it done. Rough game.

[Purdue129]

today was a perfect microcosm of Keady's last season

 

now he gets to have the s*** beat out of him by the Illini and Whisky

 

oh well...

[ZoomSlowik]

Awesome game on Fox Sports Net between Arizona and Washington. UW is up 4 with to 2:04 to go. Arizona has been killing them inside, but Washington has a big advantage from behind the arc.

 

Washington pulls it out 93-85.

Edited February 26, 2005 by ZoomSlowik