greasywheels121 Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 A couple Big East games.... BC beats Seton Hall 70-58. #17 Pitt loses at home to #19 UConn 73-64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 lol way to go Iowa, a little too late in the game as far as getting to the Big Dance, but that first half was fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Knight's Texas Tech had a big misstep losing to Texas A&M 85-63, off a 31-6 run in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Your comments concerning the rules violations at Michigan and Iowa are way off base. The problems at Michigan and Iowa happened well before any of these current players were even enrolled in the school. That has nothing to do with the current team. Pierce and Horton are the ones that messed up, that has nothing to do with running a bad program. Everyone has problems with a player now and then. For instance, Duke had to forfeit the money earned from finishing second in 98 because Corey Maggette took money from an AUU coach. Even then, that has nothing to do with the rash of injuries that has affected other key players at Michigan. Both of those teams could easily be ranked if they had all of their players right now. You're drastically overrating how hard it is to win on the road in the ACC. It's hard to win on the road in every conference, the ACC isn't really that special. And obviously it isn't "nearly impossible" to finish .500 on the road in the ACC when the top couple of teams do it every year, much like UNC, Wake, and Duke right now. The ACC is tougher, but it is not some kind of super conference. Hell, it isn't even the top ranked conference in the country because it doesn't have as much depth as the Big East. The 4 and 5th best teams are not going to switch conferences and magically fix all of their problems. Georgia Tech hasn't been the same team as last year and has struggled mightily since Elder went down. The way they played in their losses it won't matter if it's Virginia Tech or Minnesota. NC State sucks this year, outside of Hodge their team is a collection of mediocrity. They'll have their good games every once in a while, but they are not a 20 win team in any major conference. They're a Julius Hodge injury away from being worse than Northwestern. I'll give you Maryland, however, since they are probably going to finish with 17 wins maybe 18 as it is. Look at the win totals in both conferences though, there isn't really any difference. The Big Ten has 6 teams with 17 wins or more, the ACC only has the big 3. There's only like a 1 win difference for every team if you look at the standings for each conference. Apparently you don't watch enough non-ACC basketball, because teams like Minnesota, Ohio State, and Iowa before the Pierce incident have played pretty well. The two conferences are similar outside of the top 4 teams in each conference. The Big Ten has only one really good team while the ACC has three. That's the only real difference, every team in the ACC has 1 or two extra losses because few teams can beat Duke, Wake, and UNC. The rest of the conference is pretty much identical. The numbers don't tell the whole truth concerning scheduling. Games like Florida A&M and Longwood are drastically dragging down Illinois' out of conference schedule. The fact is, they played 3 ranked teams and 4 other major conference schools. Duke didn't take on a whole lot of good teams, the current RPI structure just favors mid-majors because they play on the road more. They played one good team in MSU, a decent one in Oklahoma, and one pretty good mid-major in Davidson. Temple and Princeton look good for the computers but aren't really that tough. They had a bunch of cupcakes in there too, don't try to pretend that Tennessee Martin and UNC Greensboro are real games. Come on, Valpo, Toledo, UIC? Basically the computers that do strength of schedule think your cupcakes were tougher than Illinois'. That doesn't really mean anything. So basically what you are syaing is that Minnesota, Ohio State, Purdue, Northwestern, a healthy Michigan, Iowa, and Indiana could match up with Georgia Tech, Maryland, NC State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Virginia,and Miami? Your absolutely crazy if you honestly believe that. The only team that has really struggled is a young Florida State team. Going to Clemson can give you problems and I guarantee they could beat most teams on that list. Virginia Tech has had a dissapointing season and are the disgrace of the conference as far as I am concerned, but how can you say that these teams would lose to Penn State, Minnesota, Michigan, and Purdue. How can you say that the RPI takes a hit because Illinois has played bad Mid-Major Teams. What does that mean? Why doesn't Illinois think thy're good enough to beat a good mid-major? To have your RPI high, you have to play good teams, both from major conferences and mid-majors. You have to play teams like Davidson, Princeton, and Temple to keep your RPI up. You know that you have a good chance of winning those games, but if you don't show up, you could be going home with your tail between your legs. I think the most accurate examples of why the ACC is much better then the Big Ten shows up in November, when the Big ten/ACC Challenge takes place. Wake Forest 73 Illinois 91 Ohio State 73 Clemson 80 Virginia 48 Northwestern 44 North Carolina 70 Indiana 63 Michigan 68 Georgia Tech 99 Maryland 64 Wisconsin 69 Florida State 70 Minnesota 69 Michigan State 74 Duke 81 I rest my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) Wake Forest 73 Illinois 91 Yeah, they never beat good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 butter.....i don't think anyone's going to argue w/ you when you say the ACC is better than the big 10. so what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 That guy was saying that the Big Ten could hold it's own against the ACC, thats not even close to being true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) How can you say that the RPI takes a hit because Illinois has played bad Mid-Major Teams. What does that mean? Why doesn't Illinois think thy're good enough to beat a good mid-major? To have your RPI high, you have to play good teams, both from major conferences and mid-majors. You have to play teams like Davidson, Princeton, and Temple to keep your RPI up. You know that you have a good chance of winning those games, but if you don't show up, you could be going home with your tail between your legs. I think the most accurate examples of why the ACC is much better then the Big Ten shows up in November, when the Big ten/ACC Challenge takes place. Wake Forest 73 Illinois 91 Ohio State 73 Clemson 80 Virginia 48 Northwestern 44 North Carolina 70 Indiana 63 Michigan 68 Georgia Tech 99 Maryland 64 Wisconsin 69 Florida State 70 Minnesota 69 Michigan State 74 Duke 81 I rest my case Did you even look at my post and the example of Oklahoma St. who has the 3rd rank SOS vs. Illinois who has the 47th? They have the same amount of top 50 games, Illinois has one more 51-100 games, and they have the same amount of 101-200 games. The only difference is Illinois played a couple extra terrible cupcakes (mainly because of the Las Vegas Tourney) and their SOS is over 40 spots lower. And Princeton as a good team, LMFAO, their 4-6 in the powerhouse Ivy League. Temple was 4-6 in their non conference play. As for the ACC-Big 10 debate, the ACC is better but not by as much as you want to believe. The #1 ACC team struggled to beat a middle of the pack Big 10 team, Duke struggled in Cameron Indoor to beat MSU, a team that Illinois beat fairly easily on the road. And every game except for GT vs. Michigan and Illinois vs. Wake were decided by less than 10 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) Okay, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, and NC State haven't struggled at all. Usually when you are down around .500 you've struggled quite a bit. Not all of their loses came against quality competition. One could understand losing to UNC, Duke, and Wake, but when those teams keep trading games with each other that should tell you that none of them can really distinguish themselves. You've been comparing a team that now has 19 wins in Minnesota to teams that have 12-14 wins. There's a reason that teams have records like that, it's commonly known as not being very good. Illinois has had no problem playing good teams in the non-conference schedule, they just had to play a couple of really bad ones both leading up to the game against Cincinnati and early in the year in games they committed to while ago. Those couple games drastically affect your strength of schedule. As was pointed out earlier, Illinois' schedule is extremely similar to Oklahoma State's, which was ranked number 3 or 4 overall outside of a couple of very low ranked teams that Illinois played that OK St didn't. They played several good teams and several bad ones, there wasn't a whole lot of middle ground. Duke on the other hand played several mediocre teams instead, like the Princeton and Temple games you try to mention as quality competition (98 and 89 RPI respectively). You should go back and read that post, it outlined the situation pretty well. Overall, however, Illinois had several more challenging games than Duke. As for the ACC/Big Ten Challenge, you're really using some flawed logic if you are going to make a serious argument based on 8 games that occurred extremely early in the season, as opposed to the 20 odd other games per team, especially considering every other game was a hotly contested game outside of the Illini blowout and the Ga Tech blowout. Basically all of the other 6 games could have gone either way. Plus one of the better Big Ten teams at the time (Iowa) didn't even play. They were 16-5 before Pierce got suspended. More importantly, if your beloved Duke had played at the Breslin Center things might have gone differently. They needed almost 30 a piece from Redick and Ewing as it was. Illinois has beat every team they have played, and only 4 of those teams finished within 10 points of beating them. If you can't see that they are quite a bit better than your 4-loss Dukies that had a tough time beating St. John's today, you're beyond hope. There's definitely a reason one of the teams is the unanimous #1 team in the country and the other is just barely in the top 10. I'm done with this series of arguments, I'll let one of the other 5 or 6 people that's joined me in this position finish it. Edited February 27, 2005 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmatt Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Bottom line: ACC is better than the big 10 and Illinois is better than duke. If you dont like it you can kiss my ass right downtown an print it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Parque Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Overall, however, Illinois had several more challenging games than Duke. Illinois Challenging Games Gonzaga W 89-72 Wake Forest W 91-73 Cincinnati W 67-45 at Wisconsin W 75-65 at Michigan State W 81-68 Wisconsin W 70-59 at Iowa W 75-65 Minnesota W 89-66 at Georgetown W 74-59 Total=9 Duke Challngeing Opponents Michigan State W 81-74 Oklahoma W 78-67 at NC State W 86-74 at Miami W 92-83 Maryland L 66-75 at Wake Forest L 89-92 North Carolina W 71-70 at Maryland L 92-99 Wake Forest W 102-92 at Georgia Tech W 60-56 at North Carolina TBD Total=11 You could even throw in home against Iowa if you'd like since you just barely beat them. I left out home against Georgia Tech, away against Virginia Tech which we lost, I guess you could even throw in home gainst Miami since they have a good chance to make the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 09:45 PM) Illinois Challenging Games Gonzaga W 89-72 Wake Forest W 91-73 Cincinnati W 67-45 at Wisconsin W 75-65 at Michigan State W 81-68 Wisconsin W 70-59 at Iowa W 75-65 Minnesota W 89-66 at Georgetown W 74-59 Total=9 Duke Challngeing Opponents Michigan State W 81-74 Oklahoma W 78-67 at NC State W 86-74 at Miami W 92-83 Maryland L 66-75 at Wake Forest L 89-92 North Carolina W 71-70 at Maryland L 92-99 Wake Forest W 102-92 at Georgia Tech W 60-56 at North Carolina TBD Total=11 You could even throw in home against Iowa if you'd like since you just barely beat them. I left out home against Georgia Tech, away against Virginia Tech which we lost, I guess you could even throw in home gainst Miami since they have a good chance to make the tournament. He was talking about during the non conference part of the schedule. Reading comprehension is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 this discussion is dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Man, you go out of town for a day and you miss a s***load of mindless Butter Parque posts. You said "Illinois would be lucky to go .500 in the ACC" You want a statement that sounds like it came from someone who hasn't watched a game this year, this is it. BTW, saying the ACC is better than the Big Ten doesn't make Duke a better team than Illinois by any logic whatsoever. What a useless thread this has turned into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mplssoxfan Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) So basically what you are syaing is that Minnesota, Ohio State, Purdue, Northwestern, a healthy Michigan, Iowa, and Indiana could match up with Georgia Tech, Maryland, NC State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Virginia,and Miami? Your absolutely crazy if you honestly believe that. The only team that has really struggled is a young Florida State team. Going to Clemson can give you problems and I guarantee they could beat most teams on that list. Virginia Tech has had a dissapointing season and are the disgrace of the conference as far as I am concerned, but how can you say that these teams would lose to Penn State, Minnesota, Michigan, and Purdue. First of all, how are you possibly comparing the teams in bold? One of those four is head and shoulders above the other three, and it should be obvious which one it is. Is Minnesota the most consistent team in either the Big Ten or the country? Certainly not. Can they match up with the teams in italics above? I submit that they can. Minnesota is a far, far better team than the one that lost to FSU by two in December. Which Terps team would show up? The one who swept Duke or the one who was swept by Clemson? Illinois is better than Duke. The ACC, on balance, is better than the Big Ten. But just as Littlejohn and University Hall are tough places to play, no matter the quality of the home squad, so are Mackey and Williams. PS -- just rereading before I post. VT the disgrace of the season in the ACC? I'd say Virgnia or Maryland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) Can the crazy ass duke talk be split into another thread? If not i don't think it will ever end. Edited February 27, 2005 by qwerty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Feb 26, 2005 -> 10:36 PM) Can the crazy ass duke talk be split into another thread? If not i don't think it will ever end. dook sucks .... let them all b**** about it now. They're gonna finish the season with a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 The views and Expressions of Butter Parque and are in no way the same opinions as other Duke fans. We will now return you to your regularly scheduled College Basketball Thread. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Feb 27, 2005 -> 07:32 AM) The views and Expressions of Butter Parque and are in no way the same opinions as other Duke fans. We will now return you to your regularly scheduled College Basketball Thread. Thank you. Thanks........ I am hoping we can find a way to move on from this pointless argument. Hoosiers have a big date against the Spartans today at 11:00 (central) on CBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Feb 27, 2005 -> 03:58 AM) Thanks........ I am hoping we can find a way to move on from this pointless argument. Hoosiers have a big date against the Spartans today at 11:00 (central) on CBS. This is going to be fun; I plan on losing my voice for the week today.....IU has defeated Michigan State five of the past six times they've come to Bloomington as a ranked team...... Remember this game? MSU was #1 when they came to Bloomington that day... http://iuhoosiers.com/mensbasketball/resul...kr01-07-01.html Edited February 27, 2005 by greasywheels121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 God that was so awesome. Haston for threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 HOLY s***!!!! Bracey on FIRE!!!!!! Everything he is putting up is going in. 17 points with 10 minutes left in the 1st HALF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 Penn becomes the first team to qualify for the Big Dance with their clinching of the Ivy League title... Selection Sunday is two weeks away and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 MSU and Indiana in overtime. Wright has 29, 4 Spartans are tied at 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 BOOO YAHHH!!!!!! GO Hoosiers! Nice win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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