*Official* College Basketball Thread

[Rex Hudler]

IF we win on Friday, I actually think we have one helluva shot to take out the ILLINI with Bracey. We lost by 12 last time without him and he brings us about 20 points to the table. We shall see.

 

I wouldn't go quite that far. Illinois losing today doesn't help anybody's chances of beating them on Saturday.

[YASNY]

I think Indiana's in, regardless.

[greasywheels121]

I'm not too concerned about the future rounds of the BTT. I just want to win that first game at the very least. The consensus on basically every website, etc. (believe me I've been to them all these past few bubble weeks), is saying that if we win Friday, we'll definitely be in.

[He_Gawn]

It doesn't work where you just add in his ppg to the score.

 

I'm not saying it does, but were a whole lot better with Bracey.

[Chisoxfn]

Personally I think it takes two wins for IU just like it would for the Hawkeyes. One of them will make it. If both go deep then who knows. It will be interesting.

[Cerbaho-WG]

IU has to win two games to get in, in my opinion. While I am a big Hoosiers fan, I'm also a realist, and losing to Northwestern and Charlotte really should not have happened.

[Chisoxfn]

If you look at RPI, which I think we all know the selection team does, you'll notice that Iowa's RPI is pretty good. I'm looking at a few sites and some have them in the 30 range, which is odd.

 

I know they had some huge wins early in the year and with Louisville and Texas (2 teams they beat) playing well it bodes well for them if they can come up with, like I say, 2 wins in the tourney.

 

Same goes for IU, imo, who in my mind gets hammered for the way they started the year.

[Rex Hudler]

I can't see you guys getting in with such a lousy non-conference record.  I realize you've played good basketball but you can't look past that awful start. 

 

As a Hawkeye fan I will say don't count the Hawks out.  They've won 3 in a row and there RPI is at 51, which is pretty bad, but two good wins in the tourney and that RPI takes off and they show they have recovered from the removal of Pierre Pierce. 

 

However, if they don't make it, Alfords oustered and that may be the best thing of all.

 

Jason, I don't think you can or the committee will focus solely on that part of the season. Granted the early part of the season won't help IU a ton, but at the same time, I don't think it will hurt as much as you might think. Beating Minnesota will be a must. Staying competitive against Illinois in the semis is important as well.

 

The committee looks beyond won-loss record. They look at how they finished the season. I do think the Charlotte game will at least be discussed. The fact they have consistently improved since December will help. IU's resume is not without flaws, so nothing is set in stone, but I don't think you can just look at the obvious and assume they won't get in. Alabama from last year is a perfect example. They got in at 16-13.

[danman31]

I think Indiana's in, regardless.

I don't think there is anyway Indiana should be in the tournament right now. They will have to make it to the finals of the BTT. Right now they have an ugly RPI of 69. 15-12 is not conference worthy either. Granted their SOS is pretty damn good at 16. They have 2 good wins: Michigan St. and Wisconsin, both at home. They lost @ Missouri which you could call a bad loss. They lost @ Northwestern, bad loss. They are 2-8 on the road this year. 6-4 in their last 10 isn't spectacular either.

 

If they make the BTT final with a win over Illinois that might be enough. Minnesota would be a decent win as both teams are on the bubble and then beating Illinois would probably be needed as well. At that point, if they lose the BTT final they would be 17-13, 7-3 in their last 10, and 6-2 in their last 8. The nice finish with the big win would get them in. I don't see how Indiana gets in without beating Illinois though. The rest of their resume is ugly, a strong finish would have to be the capper.

[Chisoxfn]

Jason, I don't think you can or the committee will focus solely on that part of the season.  Granted the early part of the season won't help IU a ton, but at the same time, I don't think it will hurt as much as you might think.  Beating Minnesota will be a must.  Staying competitive against Illinois in the semis is important as well. 

 

The committee looks beyond won-loss record.  They look at how they finished the season.  I do think the Charlotte game will at least be discussed.  The fact they have consistently improved since December will help.  IU's resume is not without flaws, so nothing is set in stone, but I don't think you can just look at the obvious and assume they won't get in.  Alabama from last year is a perfect example.  They got in at 16-13.

I agree that it won't be the only thing. But its gonna be hard for them to let in a team with as poor of a record, especially since they had a few rough losses to pretty poor schools.

 

Same can be said for Iowa so to speak. Hell, I think Iowa and IU are complete opposites. Iowa started the years as one of the better teams in the country and then sputtered in big ten play. However, they have came on again with there 3 game win streak and have some big wins.

 

In my opinion, if the Big Ten gets in an extra team it will be one of Iowa or IU and it will be the one that plays best in the tourney.

 

And if you want to talk close games, Iowa did send the Illini into OT on the road, which helps as well.

 

Its gonna be an interesting Big Ten tourney. You also have to think about who goes out if one of Iowa/IU gets in the tourney.

[Rex Hudler]

If you look at RPI, which I think we all know the selection team does, you'll notice that Iowa's RPI is pretty good.  I'm looking at a few sites and some have them in the 30 range, which is odd. 

 

I know they had some huge wins early in the year and with Louisville and Texas (2 teams they beat) playing well it bodes well for them if they can come up with, like I say, 2 wins in the tourney.

 

Same goes for IU, imo, who in my mind gets hammered for the way they started the year.

 

If I am looking at Iowa and Indiana and consider them to be close, there is no way in hell I would take Iowa. Sure they had big wins early, but they also had them with Pierce in the lineup. Without him they are a different team.

 

IU lost a lot early, but they did so against cream of the crop competition and with youth. They have done nothing but improve since. I think the committee would take a team on the upswing more so than a team that did their best work in December. Yes, they have to look at a teams complete body of work, but they don't ignore how they are playing now.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't think there is anyway Indiana should be in the tournament right now. They will have to make it to the finals of the BTT. Right now they have an ugly RPI of 69. 15-12 is not conference worthy either. Granted their SOS is pretty damn good at 16. They have 2 good wins: Michigan St. and Wisconsin, both at home. They lost @ Missouri which you could call a bad loss. They lost @ Northwestern, bad loss. They are 2-8 on the road this year. 6-4 in their last 10 isn't spectacular either.

 

If they make the BTT final with a win over Illinois that might be enough. Minnesota would be a decent win as both teams are on the bubble and then beating Illinois would probably be needed as well. At that point, if they lose the BTT final they would be 17-13, 7-3 in their last 10, and 6-2 in their last 8. The nice finish with the big win would get them in. I don't see how Indiana gets in without beating Illinois though. The rest of their resume is ugly, a strong finish would have to be the capper.

Well put Dan.

[Chisoxfn]

If I am looking at Iowa and Indiana and consider them to be close, there is no way in hell I would take Iowa.  Sure they had big wins early, but they also had them with Pierce in the lineup.  Without him they are a different team. 

 

IU lost a lot early, but they did so against cream of the crop competition and with youth.  They have done nothing but improve since.  I think the committee would take a team on the upswing more so than a team that did their best work in December.  Yes, they have to look at a teams complete body of work, but they don't ignore how they are playing now.

Ya, but Iowa seems to have rebounded from the Pierce lost. They did take out OSU the other day. Albeit it, it was a very close game as was the Michigan one.

 

All I'm saying is IU has a worse RPI and not that great of a resume. Hell, I think the better odds are that neither Iowa or IU gets in, but if one of them does, I'm gonna bet that its the one that plays better in the BTT.

[Rex Hudler]

I agree that it won't be the only thing.  But its gonna be hard for them to let in a team with as poor of a record, especially since they had a few rough losses to pretty poor schools.

 

Same can be said for Iowa so to speak.  Hell, I think Iowa and IU are complete opposites.  Iowa started the years as one of the better teams in the country and then sputtered in big ten play.  However, they have came on again with there 3 game win streak and have some big wins.

 

In my opinion, if the Big Ten gets in an extra team it will be one of Iowa or IU and it will be the one that plays best in the tourney.

 

And if you want to talk close games, Iowa did send the Illini into OT on the road, which helps as well.

 

Its gonna be an interesting Big Ten tourney.  You also have to think about who goes out if one of Iowa/IU gets in the tourney.

 

 

IU lost to Northwestern and has gone 10-5 since. Missouri is the only other "pretty poor school" they lost to and they did so on the road, without Bracey Wright for 3/4 of the game because he got his nose broken by an elbow. Missouri is also beating up on Kansas pretty good right now, (but it is early) for what that is worth.

 

They should have beaten Charlotte and that loss hurts, but only because of the clock situation, not because Charlotte is a bad loss. They are 21-6 and a lock for the tourney. IU's other non-conference losses came to North Carolina, UConn, Kentucky, and Notre Dame.

[Rex Hudler]

Ya, but Iowa seems to have rebounded from the Pierce lost.  They did take out OSU the other day.  Albeit it, it was a very close game as was the Michigan one.

 

All I'm saying is IU has a worse RPI and not that great of a resume. Hell, I think the better odds are that neither Iowa or IU gets in, but if one of them does, I'm gonna bet that its the one that plays better in the BTT.

 

I think you will find that RPI will play less a role this year than it has in a long time.

[YASNY]

I believe Indiana's 10 Big Ten wins and their recovery from the 5 or 6 game losing streak will get them over the hump. When IU lost all those games early, I thought you could stick a fork in them, but they've recovered nicely and are on the upswing. I believe they'll get in.

[Rex Hudler]

I believe Indiana's 10 Big Ten wins and their recovery from the 5 or 6 game losing streak will get them over the hump.  When IU lost all those games early, I thought you could stick a fork in them, but they've recovered nicely and are on the upswing.  I believe they'll get in.

 

I agree, IF they beat Minnesota.

[Chisoxfn]

Ok, lets look at Iowa's schedule. They also loss to NU, in OT in Evaston. There badloss was definately when they lost to Purdue on the road but that was just following the whole Pierce incident.

 

Lose @ Wisconsin by 3

Beat Indiana @ Iowa

Beat Minn @ Home

Beat OSU @ Home

Beat Iowa State (albeit ISU is much improved since then)

Wins against Texas/Louisville

 

Hell more I look at it, minus the poor stretch I think they deserve it as much as anyone else. Plus 19-10 and if they take at least one in BTT they are bubble, two and they are in.

[Rex Hudler]

Let's take a look at this from another angle and compare ONLY Indiana and Minnesota, who most experts feel is in already.

 

Minnesota is 20-9 and Indiana is 15-12. Both have the same Big 10 record and split their two games, both winning at home.

 

Minnesota beat the following non-conference teams....

 

Lipscomb

Furman - common opponent with IU

Holy Cross - solid team that should be in the Big Dance

Nebraska

Central Michigan

Chicago State

St. Francis PA

NC Greensboro

Coppin State

Loyola Marymount

 

Combined record of 144-133

 

IU beat....

Indiana State

Western Illinois

Ball State

Oral Roberts - compare to Holy Cross

Furman

 

Combined record 77-68

 

Their non-conference wins are pretty similar. The biggest two differences between the two are:

 

1. Minnesota played two extra games (and against easy competition)

2. Minnesota played and lost to Alabama and Oklahoma who are both very good teams. They lost to Florida State who is 11-18.

 

Indiana played two less games than Minnesota. They lost to UNC, UConn, Kentucky, Notre Dame, Charlotte and Missouri.

 

I can't for the life of me compare those two schedules and figure how Minnesota has a "better resume" other than the fact they have more wins by playing lesser competition and two extra games.

 

I can't see a team being rewarded for beating Chicago St, Lipscomb and Coppin St over a team that played Charlotte, Kentucky, Notre Dame, UConn and UNC. Is beating Coppin State better than losing by six at UCONN? I certainly don't think so. In fact, I would consider both teams to be about as even as they can be, considering they had different types of schedules.

[Rex Hudler]

Man, this time of year is fun!

[Gene Honda Civic]

Jason give it up... Iowa doesn't deserve to be in the tournament. In fact, any team that loses 4(?) in a row to Northwestern should be excluded next year as well. Making the tourney might be enough to save steve alford his job, and that would be a tragedy. If they do somehow make the tourney, and Alford keeps his job, I'm calling foul on Bob Bowlby in both instances.

[greasywheels121]

Man, this time of year is fun!

 

 

No doubt about it. Mike Davis had a really cool quote before the seniors spoke yesterday. "I know this isn't the record you guys wanted, but I know this is the team you wanted." Something to that effect, got a good response from the crowd.

 

It's not a place I always want to see us, but being on the bubble this year is kind of fun. It adds an extra level of excitement to these games. IU really hasn't had must-wins in a long time.

[Rex Hudler]

Ok, lets look at Iowa's schedule.  They also loss to NU, in OT in Evaston.  There badloss was definately when they lost to Purdue on the road but that was just following the whole Pierce incident.

 

Lose @ Wisconsin by 3

Beat Indiana @ Iowa

Beat Minn @ Home

Beat OSU @ Home

Beat Iowa State (albeit ISU is much improved since then)

Wins against Texas/Louisville

 

Hell more I look at it, minus the poor stretch I think they deserve it as much as anyone else.  Plus 19-10 and if they take at least one in BTT they are bubble, two and they are in.

 

From what I can tell Iowa has only won two games on the road this year. Minnesota just four. So none of the Big 10 bubble teams have impressed on the road.

 

Edit: Let me take that back. I didn't catch the win at powerhouse Drake early in the year, so make that three road wins for Iowa.

Edited March 6, 2005 by Rex Hudler

[He_Gawn]

Theres no way Iowa gets in without Pierce. They stand no chance of making any noise.

Edited March 6, 2005 by He_Gawn

[danman31]

In fact, any team that loses 4(?) in a row to Northwestern should be excluded next year as well.

It was 3 in a row for the record.

 

As for what Rex said about the Big Ten bubble teams, I agree and don't think any should get in.

 

Also, Missouri is running Kansas off the court right now. Does anybody want the #1 seed? Kentucky loses a week ago, then Ok. St. loses last night and today Kansas looks like they are going to lose their 4th in 6 games. Kentucky is also down 4 to Florida, lol. I wonder if Duke could squeek in for the #1 if they beat UNC. It would be hard to believe they could give 3 #1 seeds to one conference, but it's hard to believe Kansas, Kentucky, and Ok. St. keep f'ing up.

Edited March 6, 2005 by danman31