LEBRON

[witesoxfan]

And when the Cavs are sitting at home watching the playoffs like last year they can talk about Lebron's double doubles all they want.  I don't mean it as a diss when I say he needs to work on his d.  But anybody who actually watches the games and doesn't just go by stats can see he's not very good defensively.  But if he wants to be the next Dominque Wilkins and score a lot of points and give up just as many then fine.  I don't think he'll take that approach though.

I see Cleveland in the playoffs.

 

I mean, I'm not a big NBA guy...but I see like 10 teams that could/will be playoff teams in the East. And I do not see Cleveland as a bubble team...they are better then the bubble teams. Cleveland could be like a 5 or 6 in the East, maybe even better.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I see Cleveland in the playoffs. 

 

I mean, I'm not a big NBA guy...but I see like 10 teams that could/will be playoff teams in the East.  And I do not see Cleveland as a bubble team...they are better then the bubble teams.  Cleveland could be like a 5 or 6 in the East, maybe even better.

They've pretty much got the same team they had last year minus Boozer and didn't make it. Gooden is playing well, will see if he can keep it up. But you're right, they could easily make it in a pathetic eastern conference. But it's not a slamdunk.

[hammerhead johnson]

He is the most gifted player to EVER play the game. 6'8 240 and a 45 inch vertical. Just amazing, no other word for him.

He's an amazing talent, no question.

 

Unfortunately, his height (6'8) and weight (240) at the SG position will prevent him from ever becoming a defensive monster. It's hard to play on-the-ball defense against your prototypical shooting guards when you're 2 to 5 inches taller and/or 30 to 40 pounds heavier than they are. You won't find too many guys at or around his height playing shutdown defense in this league out of the SG position.

 

When you go on those west coast trips, and you can't contain guys like Ray Allen, Peja Stoyakovich, Kobe Bryant, Jason Richardson, Michael Finley, Tracy McGrady, Latrell Sprewell, etc, you're most likely gonna lose. He matches up well with McGrady and Bryant, though. But you get the picture.

 

The thing about Lebron is that he's wise beyond his years. His court vision is second to none, and he ain't even turned 20 yet. And yes, he has forced close to 3.5 turnovers per game this year due to the fact that he's an opportunistic defensive player. He will never be confused for a 1st Team All NBA defender at the SG postion, though.

 

By the way, I think that Kevin Garnett blows everyone else out of the water if we're talking about the most gifted player in the league right now. Last I checked, Garnett was only a couple assists away from being in the Top 10 in the NBA. He's the only non-guard in the Top 25 right now, IIRC. Combine that with his rebounding skills (perhaps the best in the league), his 1st Team caliber defense, his ability to school most anyone on the offensive end, etc. We could also talk about his charisma and leadership skills. The list goes on and on and on.

[Palehosefan]

I disagree about Lebron's size hurting him when he guards 2G's. His size and length allows him to dominate 2G's if they try to take him inside, and his length combined with his quickness lets him play solid perimeter D. He will learn to stay in front of his man better as he ages, he has the natural ability to do it. Ron Artest is very similar in size and can guard 2G's pretty well also. I think their size actually benefits them, but I can see your point also.

 

Its gonna be interesting to see if Garnett or Lebron end up with higher assist totals and just how close they come to averaging a triple double, they are the only two in the NBA that can come close to Oscar Robertson's feats in the NBA.

[Texsox]

As great as he is on the offensive side of the court, he's becoming a better and better defensive player. What made Jordan the greates ever was his defense could match his offense. Jordan and Pippen where more amazing night after night playing defense than offense.

 

LJ could be the greatest ever. If he has half the Jordan touch and magic in the PR game, the NBA will be in good hands for a long time. If someone gets murdered in his house, the NBA is screwed again.

[hammerhead johnson]

I disagree about Lebron's size hurting him when he guards 2G's. His size and length allows him to dominate 2G's if they try to take him inside, and his length combined with his quickness lets him play solid perimeter D. He will learn to stay in front of his man better as he ages, he has the natural ability to do it. Ron Artest is very similar in size and can guard 2G's pretty well also. I think their size actually benefits them, but I can see your point also.

Well, I try to look at basketball as though I were a scout. Lebron is closer to 6'9, and Artest is closer to 6'6. Seriously, examine these guys. You can't compare the two. Also, it takes a certain amount of maliciousness to really play 1st team caliber defense. You knew that Artest had it right off the bat. Lebron just ain't cut out to play shutdown defense at the SG position.

 

"His size and length allows him to dominate 2G's if they try to take him inside"

 

This could never happen. A guy who is 30 to 40 pounds lighter and 3 to 5 inches shorter (your prototypical SG) would always have the inside step. And worst case scenario, he has to guard an Iverson type, or a Dwayne Wade type (both of whom are more cut out for the SG position). Sylvester would have a better chance of catching Speedy Gonzalez, nahmean?

 

I think that you know your basketball, but you're way off the mark on this one. I'm not trying to be an asshole...I'm just being honest. Thinking that Lebron could "dominate" 2G's if they try to take him inside is something that you'll never hear from pretty much anyone who studies the game. That is precisely his weakness, in fact.

 

To expand on my initial argument, I think that Lebron might be a 1st team caliber defender out of the SF position. But not out of the SG slot...it's just basic physics and mathematics.

[hammerhead johnson]

As great as he is on the offensive side of the court, he's becoming a better and better defensive player. What made Jordan the greates ever was his defense could match his offense. Jordan and Pippen where more amazing night after night playing defense than offense.

 

LJ could be the greatest ever. If he has half the Jordan touch and magic in the PR game, the NBA will be in good hands for a long time. If someone gets murdered in his house, the NBA is screwed again.

Scottie Pippen was actually the same height and 10 to 15 pounds lighter than Lebron...think of it like that. Pippen trying to guard SGs...there's just no way. If Lebron switched to Point Forward, he could be Pippen with a shot. Think of how scary that would be.

[Palehosefan]

Lebron is definitely not closer to 6'9 in my opinion, much closer to 6'7, he stood next to Rasheed during a game and Rasheed had atleast 3 inches on him and Rasheed has always been 6'11. But that doesn't really matter, 1 and a half inches doesn't mean much.

 

"And worst case scenario, he has to guard an Iverson type, or a Dwayne Wade type (both of whom are more cut out for the SG position). Sylvester would have a better chance of catching Speedy Gonzalez, nahmean?"

 

Ask yourself this, can ANYONE in the NBA stay in front of Wade and Iverson? I haven't found one yet, possibly Bruce Bowen, but I doubt it.

 

Lebron's proportions aren't that of a big man, he is just like a bigger version of a SG, you would never know he weighed 240 pounds by looking at him. He still has the quickness and skills of a smaller SG, you don't have to be faster than SG's to guard them, just have the ability to slide in front of them and Lebron has that quickness. I don't see Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Kobe, Paul Pierce, etc having superior quickness to Lebron. Just my opinion.

[hammerhead johnson]

Lebron is definitely not closer to 6'9 in my opinion, much closer to 6'7, he stood next to Rasheed during a game and Rasheed had atleast 3 inches on him and Rasheed has always been 6'11. But that doesn't really matter, 1 and a half inches doesn't mean much.

 

"And worst case scenario, he has to guard an Iverson type, or a Dwayne Wade type (both of whom are more cut out for the SG position). Sylvester would have a better chance of catching Speedy Gonzalez, nahmean?"

 

Ask yourself this, can ANYONE in the NBA stay in front of Wade and Iverson? I haven't found one yet, possibly Bruce Bowen, but I doubt it.

 

Lebron's proportions aren't that of a big man, he is just like a bigger version of a SG, you would never know he weighed 240 pounds by looking at him. He still has the quickness and skills of a smaller SG, you don't have to be faster than SG's to guard them, just have the ability to slide in front of them and Lebron has that quickness. I don't see Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Kobe, Paul Pierce, etc having superior quickness to Lebron. Just my opinion.

Rasheed is actually a hair under 7'0, but it doesn't matter. We're getting a tad too anal here.

 

We'll see how Lebron does guarding SG's in the long run, but I'd be absolutely shocked if he were to become a dominant defender.

[Texsox]

With his talent, I believe he may be rewriting how the pros define a 2G. This will be more an issue of the oppostiion not having anything to guard him, and that could be a bigger worry than who LJ guards.

[hammerhead johnson]

With his talent, I believe he may be rewriting how the pros define a 2G. This will be more an issue of the oppostiion not having anything to guard him, and that could be a bigger worry than who LJ guards.

You'll always find guys who come along and break the mold, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll rewrite how the pros define a certain position. Take Magic Johnson at the PG position, for instance. I'm sure that people were saying the same thing back then, but he didn't change the recipe (6'0 to 6'3, 170 to 210).

 

Magic never became a dominant defender because he was too big for the PG position. Opportunistic? Yes. Shutdown defender? Not quite. That's what I think will be the story of Lebron's career on the defensive end when all is said and done. However, I still think that he'll go down as one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA, just like Magic.

 

But Lebronski could never even begin to approach Jordan's level. That guy was voted the greatest athlete of the 20th century, period. He was the ultimate basketball player on both ends of the court.

[Jordan4life_2007]

But Lebronski could never even begin to approach Jordan's level.  That guy was voted the greatest athlete of the 20th century, period.  He was the ultimate basketball player on both ends of the court.

I won't say never, but he's a LONG way from gettin there. I think too many people jump on bandwagon's like these. I remember 5 or 6 years ago when Grant Hill was tearin up the league, everybody was sayin "He's the future goat." Or when Vince carter was goin strong, or when Kobe was on that 40 point streak. Now Lebron is the future "goat". Lebron is a STUD right now. Especially considering how old he is. But people need to chill out and let this kid grow and mature and actually accomplish something before dubbing him the future "goat."

[MurcieOne]

MJ > LJ

 

Just sayin