southsider2k5 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The Sox almost drew 2 million to USCF last season and the product didn't improve one iota from the previous couple of seasons. When JR and Co. take a legit shot at winning, I'll start paying to go to Sox games again. Until then, JR and Co. can go pound. I'm taking a page out of his "How to be Cheap and Count Your Hard Earned Money" book. The payroll increased over 20% from 2003-2004 and attendance was practically unchanged. In other words, the team did their part, but the fans didn't. People b**** about payroll, but haven't held up their end of the bargin. The team might not have preformed as expected, but the team put up $13 million more in payroll to try to make it happen. Players flopping is out of JRs control, as are the catastrophic injuries to their two marque players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Only in your wettest of wet dreams tool Why don't you PM a few of the others that are holding on to the notion that the Sox are gonna be big name players during the '04-'05 offseason and cover yourself in peanut butter while getting off on the prospect of obtaining a Pavano, RJ, or some other FA or player that might actually help this team instead of the cheapest option available. I dont even really care that much about them getting "big name" FA's in the offseason, because even with that strategy it is not always a winning formula. If I was to pick a dream senario with the sox it would of been not letting go of minor league talent, and actually developing players from within instead of trying to buy "big name players" and satisfy the casual fan. I enjoy my season tickets alot more when I can actually see the players try and play well other than a talented vet who is getting by on his rep, other than his work ethic. You have to admire teams like that , such as the twins, who consistantly bring up players that have been moved up through their farm system. That would be my senario. Im not going to b**** over and over about how we dont get players, and how they dont buy me an outfielder whose jersey I can wear for the three years he plays for the sox. We arent a large market team and so we wont operate as such. If you want to b**** about the management pick something that can actually be fixed, such as our minor league system, our draft-day errors, and the poor moves which always deplete our young talent OUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I dont even really care that much about them getting "big name" FA's in the offseason, because even with that strategy it is not always a winning formula. If I was to pick a dream senario with the sox it would of been not letting go of minor league talent, and actually developing players from within instead of trying to buy "big name players" and satisfy the casual fan. I enjoy my season tickets alot more when I can actually see the players try and play well other than a talented vet who is getting by on his rep, other than his work ethic. You have to admire teams like that , such as the twins, who consistantly bring up players that have been moved up through their farm system. That would be my senario. Im not going to b**** over and over about how we dont get players, and how they dont buy me an outfielder whose jersey I can wear for the three years he plays for the sox. We arent a large market team and so we wont operate as such. If you want to b**** about the management pick something that can actually be fixed, such as our minor league system, our draft-day errors, and the poor moves which always deplete our young talent OUT Good post, great sentiments. I LOVE to b**** about scouting and player development! The only thing I'd say in regards to payroll is, they should quit getting stuck in the middle. They should be more willing to go into the hole for a year or maybe two to really "go for it" instead of hoping and praying for everything to go right. For once, identify the needs and solve them with as reasonable a cost as possible. If it's a choice between going in the hole for a year but you've got your player personnel needs covered and some depth ... they oughta be willing to do that. They're not. And that's frustrating. That said, if they did a better job developing players, it could fill holes better. Bringing Takatsu in was a good first step in the international market. Per today's chat on BA, they're investing more in Latin America. Both good signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Good post, great sentiments. I LOVE to b**** about scouting and player development! The only thing I'd say in regards to payroll is, they should quit getting stuck in the middle. They should be more willing to go into the hole for a year or maybe two to really "go for it" instead of hoping and praying for everything to go right. For once, identify the needs and solve them with as reasonable a cost as possible. If it's a choice between going in the hole for a year but you've got your player personnel needs covered and some depth ... they oughta be willing to do that. They're not. And that's frustrating. That said, if they did a better job developing players, it could fill holes better. Bringing Takatsu in was a good first step in the international market. Per today's chat on BA, they're investing more in Latin America. Both good signs. HMMM, nice theory and one I completely agree with...for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 HMMM, nice theory and one I completely agree with...for some reason. Oh stop it, please. You know nothing about the minors for one. For two, paranoia is running deep again Stephen Stills, I've had that longstanding belief for 10 years at least. I'm tellin ya' ... you got the 'paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep' thing down pat. There are only about a million people who feel that way, you think it's your special patented idea, are you nuts or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Oh stop it, please. You know nothing about the minors for one. For two, paranoia is running deep again Stephen Stills, I've had that longstanding belief for 10 years at least. I'm tellin ya' ... you got the 'paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep' thing down pat. There are only about a million people who feel that way, you think it's your special patented idea, are you nuts or what? you must get some medical help. I need to bring a tape recorder every time we meet. Our conversations make there way to the boards quickly. You can beleive in somethign for ten years but it takes me to get it out of you. By the way other than the top three guys why should I follow our s***ty minor league system. The playrs will either be traded, dropped, quit, or there arms will fall off. Our minor league system is completely average and getting worse. That is all I need to know. I don't fall in love with 19 year old kids in single A ball. That is just plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 So, what does knowing or not knowing the minor league system have to do w/ purchasing tickets to the Sox this year again? I'd like to make time to go visit the Sox just for the memories of growing up and love of the game -- whether they were 10-100 or 100-10. Chicago is too far away to even think about season tickets, but maybe if JR needs a fly-by on a special occasion I can come on up for a game or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 some great points in the above 5 messages. seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 some great points in the above 5 messages. seriously. poor you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 you must get some medical help. I need to bring a tape recorder every time we meet. Our conversations make there way to the boards quickly. You can beleive in somethign for ten years but it takes me to get it out of you. By the way other than the top three guys why should I follow our s***ty minor league system. The playrs will either be traded, dropped, quit, or there arms will fall off. Our minor league system is completely average and getting worse. That is all I need to know. I don't fall in love with 19 year old kids in single A ball. That is just plain stupid. Send me to the same doctor you have, it seems to be helping you tremendously. Hey Captain Memorex ... who was the one talking about Casey Rogowski and getting a chubby about it, until I corrected you on the stats and his background? Oh, that's right, we don't remember do we? BTW, our minor league system is getting better by all accounts, except your expert minor league opinion of course. The 2004 draft added a lot of quality talent. Whether they make it or not, or get traded, who knows? But I'd rather have quality talent down there than not. You saw Sweeney at length last spring as did I. How much would you b**** if he gets traded? He is the real deal IMO. But now you'll be spouting this at our next lunch confab. We need to go somewhere other than Hooters, maybe you can concentrate on the conversation a little better instead of talking about peepholes, I'm serious. Embarassing, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 How about just giving each other a reach-around, calling it even and getting on with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Sometimes buying tickets for the upcoming season is based on hope. Some of that hope stems from whether you think your team has a chance, either immediately or in the near future. That, IMO, is what the state of the minors has to do with it. Call me naive but I believe in having hope. I like it when they bring in a lot of talent, like in this past draft. Tangential maybe, but it applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 How about just giving each other a reach-around, calling it even and getting on with it? Chill. There are good points being made, see my last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Sometimes buying tickets for the upcoming season is based on hope. Some of that hope stems from whether you think your team has a chance, either immediately or in the near future. The Sox as a team, organization and fan base have hope each and every year. Then July comes around.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The Sox as a team, organization and fan base have hope each and every year. Then July comes around.... That's fine. That's why we all have a choice, to buy tickets or not, isn't that great? I still have hope in lots of recent July's. Maybe not as much, but I should stop rooting and hoping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I still have hope in lots of recent July's. Maybe not as much, but I should stop rooting and hoping? Who is telling you what to do or what not to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Who is telling you what to do or what not to do? No one, didn't say anyone was. You commented on my statements about having hope, and I clarified, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 No one, didn't say anyone was. You commented on my statements about having hope, and I clarified, that's all. O....k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Send me to the same doctor you have, it seems to be helping you tremendously. Hey Captain Memorex ... who was the one talking about Casey Rogowski and getting a chubby about it, until I corrected you on the stats and his background? Oh, that's right, we don't remember do we? BTW, our minor league system is getting better by all accounts, except your expert minor league opinion of course. The 2004 draft added a lot of quality talent. Whether they make it or not, or get traded, who knows? But I'd rather have quality talent down there than not. You saw Sweeney at length last spring as did I. How much would you b**** if he gets traded? He is the real deal IMO. But now you'll be spouting this at our next lunch confab. We need to go somewhere other than Hooters, maybe you can concentrate on the conversation a little better instead of talking about peepholes, I'm serious. Embarassing, please. as far as rogowski what I said was my father in law was watching him in the AZ league. He said he looked good was a big guy and hit the ball well. That's it. so what. He will never make it. Sweeney looked good, that's nice, he will either be traded, injured, trip over his own shoe laces. The point is as a system they are compeltely average and will continue to be that way as long as they remain a team in the middle. hard to devleop your pitchers when they are all getting surgery. We heard about borchard for years, he sucks. No I do not get excited about minor league players until they actaully make it to the big leagues. That's what it is all about. Then I will get excited. Like I was with Crede, the second coming of 3b fantasy complete power hitting 3b. He blows. See what minor league excitement gets you. Oh wait Kris Honel... Arm surgery. Can't wait to see Felix diaz... oh we did. How about the great jeremy reed. We will actaully see him on a road trip. Any chance the great Corwin Malone will come through this year? How about the terrific catching prospects, and i was really high on Almonte (gone) and the great Josh Stewart (the next Mark Beuhrle) I realize we had some people make it, but my point is, why get hyped up on the minor league players, the majority never see a big league ballpark. Just the facts. I want results, not excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAF_11F4H Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ring is available in the Rule 5 draft. Time to bring back some of the traded away minor leaguers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Sometimes buying tickets for the upcoming season is based on hope. Some of that hope stems from whether you think your team has a chance, either immediately or in the near future. That, IMO, is what the state of the minors has to do with it. Call me naive but I believe in having hope. I like it when they bring in a lot of talent, like in this past draft. Tangential maybe, but it applies. every team brings in more talent each year. We just had more picks because we let our major league talent get away. If I am alive in five years, maybe I will see one or two of these guys play for the whitesox. maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ring is available in the Rule 5 draft. Time to bring back some of the traded away minor leaguers! really, Why? He was so great. The Sox loved him.. Just loved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Send me to the same doctor you have, it seems to be helping you tremendously. Gary over here gave me some dynamite pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 every team brings in more talent each year. We just had more picks because we let our major league talent get away. If I am alive in five years, maybe I will see one or two of these guys play for the whitesox. maybe. It is ok to have skeptical down to an art form. That's what pro sports are all about. There are no guarantees. You have to deal in realities and one of the realities is stacking the deck with good minor league talent and hope (there's that word again) that some will pan out. It's a numbers game. Part of that numbers game is finances. This ownership group won't go into the hole. You and I are both angry about that and have been for years (despite your feeling that it's your idea alone). Reality says some guys have to be let go, and we get draft choices. It is up to the guys in charge to pick the best guys. Here is one thing I'm happy about, they signed like 19 of their first 20 picks in this years draft. I would be pissed if they collected these choices, picked guys, and didn't sign them. My b**** is they need better scouts or more scouts. I know the draft is a crapshoot. They are commited to the farm system, and they use the farm system to acquire major league ready talent (see Garcia). There's a balancing act there. They can't do it too much but must be willing to pull the trigger. Yes, all teams acquire talent every year. Some teams develop players better than others, that is my main b**** with the White Sox. If they did that better, it solves all the problems. That way, you've got major league ready talent constantly coming up, a lot of depth, and you can trade to fill holes without hurting yourself. You think they should just throw more money at it. They have thrown more money at it in certain years (2001) and the fans didn't come out. They have tried to renovate the ballpark. It's not as if they're sitting around doing nothing. I am not defending ownership here but I am not gonna be westsidebill, the guy who crybabies about how long he's been a fan and lives to complain. What a s***ty way to go through life ... yeah, "let's be miserable and all the other jackasses who like to feel miserable will bond with me and we'll all be a nice miserable group of White Sox fans." That to me is stupid. You, TQ, support the team big time. With your wallet. I try to do that as much as I can as well. If they didn't go out and get Garcia and Contreras and signed Buehrle etc. you would be mad and now you're mad because ... what, they have these guys?? It is November freaking 30th. I know Sox fans hate to hear that but the world does not revolve around our timeframes nor our personal wishes. They have done a bad job on several fronts but they've done some good things too. It is only fair to point out both. Unless of course, wallowing in b****ing is your cup of tea (speaking generally there). I have more but I don't want to be accused of stealing someone's ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hey bullwinkle, before you start naming all the whitesox players that made it,please stop yourself. I can name more htat didn't and the point being that the Sox have a mediocre farm system in which we really can't get overly excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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