Steff Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hey bullwinkle, before you start naming all the whitesox players that made it,please stop yourself. I can name more htat didn't and the point being that the Sox have a mediocre farm system in which we really can't get overly excited about. Hey rocky.. the odds of you pulling a rabbit out of your hat are better then a prospect making it. You of all people should know that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 really, Why? He was so great. The Sox loved him.. Just loved him. Take yourself back to last June or July or whatever. They loved Reed too. But they traded him. Where were you on that, you were happy about that trade, yes? So was I, I was very happy with it, still am. They used the farm system to get major league talent, isn't that what you want them to do? So, the b**** is ... what again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hey rocky.. the odds of you pulling a rabbit out of your hat are better then a prospect making it. You of all people should know that... PRESTO!!! Exactly. That's why you draft and sign as many as you can, and beef up the presence in the baseball hot spots of the world. Increase your odds. And trade the guys your minor league honchos think won't make it. They did it right with Ring, didn't do it right with Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 It is ok to have skeptical down to an art form. That's what pro sports are all about. There are no guarantees. You have to deal in realities and one of the realities is stacking the deck with good minor league talent and hope (there's that word again) that some will pan out. It's a numbers game. Part of that numbers game is finances. This ownership group won't go into the hole. You and I are both angry about that and have been for years (despite your feeling that it's your idea alone). Reality says some guys have to be let go, and we get draft choices. It is up to the guys in charge to pick the best guys. Here is one thing I'm happy about, they signed like 19 of their first 20 picks in this years draft. I would be pissed if they collected these choices, picked guys, and didn't sign them. My b**** is they need better scouts or more scouts. I know the draft is a crapshoot. They are commited to the farm system, and they use the farm system to acquire major league ready talent (see Garcia). There's a balancing act there. They can't do it too much but must be willing to pull the trigger. Yes, all teams acquire talent every year. Some teams develop players better than others, that is my main b**** with the White Sox. If they did that better, it solves all the problems. That way, you've got major league ready talent constantly coming up, a lot of depth, and you can trade to fill holes without hurting yourself. You think they should just throw more money at it. They have thrown more money at it in certain years (2001) and the fans didn't come out. They have tried to renovate the ballpark. It's not as if they're sitting around doing nothing. I am not defending ownership here but I am not gonna be westsidebill, the guy who crybabies about how long he's been a fan and lives to complain. What a s***ty way to go through life ... yeah, "let's be miserable and all the other jackasses who like to feel miserable will bond with me and we'll all be a nice miserable group of White Sox fans." That to me is stupid. You, TQ, support the team big time. With your wallet. I try to do that as much as I can as well. If they didn't go out and get Garcia and Contreras and signed Buehrle etc. you would be mad and now you're mad because ... what, they have these guys?? It is November freaking 30th. I know Sox fans hate to hear that but the world does not revolve around our timeframes nor our personal wishes. They have done a bad job on several fronts but they've done some good things too. It is only fair to point out both. Unless of course, wallowing in b****ing is your cup of tea (speaking generally there). I have more but I don't want to be accused of stealing someone's ideas. Finally a post I agree with ...almost. The only exception to your post is you would think I would be pissed if they didn't get garcia or contraras or sign buehrle. You know I think the whitesox need to do one of two things. Spend 80 million and get the players now, or back up the truck and bite the bullet for two years. I would though keep beurhle because he is young enough. They boxed themselves in and now they are paying for it. Again, if you had a better minor league system we could be plugging more holes but we don't for the reasons I stated. Being in the middle is a horrible place to be. It gets you second place and doesn't provide building blocks. gotta go now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hey rocky.. the odds of you pulling a rabbit out of your hat are better then a prospect making it. You of all people should know that... the lovely one has joined us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Take yourself back to last June or July or whatever. They loved Reed too. But they traded him. Where were you on that, you were happy about that trade, yes? So was I, I was very happy with it, still am. They used the farm system to get major league talent, isn't that what you want them to do? So, the b**** is ... what again? I thought the trade was right. I am not agianst the trade. I used Reed as reference to my earlier point. We can't build and trade. We can build or we can trade. Doing both gets you nowhere. Ring is actaully a good point. Everyone here thought Ring was great. He pitched well in the minors and people were chastizing KW for trading him for Alomar. Ring hasn't made it. Good trade probably. Doesn't mean we draft well. We need to pick what we are going to be. We need to go for it or rebuild. Otherwise waiting to win on the cheap will get you one trip to the playoffs every 6- 10 years. Not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Finally a post I agree with ...almost. The only exception to your post is you would think I would be pissed if they didn't get garcia or contraras or sign buehrle. You know I think the whitesox need to do one of two things. Spend 80 million and get the players now, or back up the truck and bite the bullet for two years. I would though keep beurhle because he is young enough. They boxed themselves in and now they are paying for it. Again, if you had a better minor league system we could be plugging more holes but we don't for the reasons I stated. Being in the middle is a horrible place to be. It gets you second place and doesn't provide building blocks. gotta go now You think they're boxed in because you see holes on November 30th. So do I, I see the holes too. I think they have a better idea of what their holes are vs. last year at this time. The manager may be wrong but he knows what he wants. Suffice it to say, I think the manager knows more than we do. Whether the GM can get it done remains to be seen. You significantly lessen the chance of having problems by beefing up the minor league scouting, procurement, and player development. I don't care if they keep the kids or trade them for an established player, all I want is results as well. That's how things can get done, given the realities of this ownership group, which the last I checked we can't change ... no matter how much we b**** about it or no matter how some message board talks about the fans who "won't buy a ticket until ownership proves it to me" stuff. I will reserve my b****ing about what they've done and not done until right up to spring training. If I see the same holes, I will b**** too. They need 5 established starters, not just four and a prayer. That's been proven not to work. They need a veteran infielder and not go with 3 young guys who are largely unproven. Just my opinion here. They need a veteran catcher as a safety net for Davis. They need a power arm in the bullpen, a guy who can close games if Shingo somehow falls off. They need to not count on Carl Everett as an everyday RF. Maybe a few other small things but you get the drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I thought the trade was right. I am not agianst the trade. I used Reed as reference to my earlier point. We can't build and trade. We can build or we can trade. Doing both gets you nowhere. Ring is actaully a good point. Everyone here thought Ring was great. He pitched well in the minors and people were chastizing KW for trading him for Alomar. Ring hasn't made it. Good trade probably. Doesn't mean we draft well. We need to pick what we are going to be. We need to go for it or rebuild. Otherwise waiting to win on the cheap will get you one trip to the playoffs every 6- 10 years. Not good enough. It's not as black and white as that. Pro sports is not that way. You HAVE to do both, depending on the situation. Look at Texas, they weren't expecting to contend in 2004, oops, suddenly they did. You have to adapt and change at a moments notice. I don't want my GM and player personnel guys to pass on a young prospect type guy they're high on that's suddenly become available from another organization for whatever reason ... just because we aren't willing to give up the 10th or 11th pitcher on the roster. That's stupid. Flip side ... I don't want my GM not willing to trade a first rounder whose velocity has fallen off the map, just because he was a first rounder. Trading Ring was smart, they saw something they didn't like after they picked him and got a veteran they thought could help. I have zero problem with that. You must be willing, and able, to do both ... successfully. With convinction. If you make the wrong judgements too much in terms of player personnel, you get fired. That's how it should be. But this "black and white, it's gotta be one way or the other" stuff ... no. Talk about boxing yourself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 It's not as black and white as that. Pro sports is not that way. You HAVE to do both, depending on the situation. Look at Texas, they weren't expecting to contend in 2004, oops, suddenly they did. You have to adapt and change at a moments notice. I don't want my GM and player personnel guys to pass on a young prospect type guy they're high on that's suddenly become available from another organization for whatever reason ... just because we aren't willing to give up the 10th or 11th pitcher on the roster. That's stupid. Flip side ... I don't want my GM not willing to trade a first rounder whose velocity has fallen off the map, just because he was a first rounder. Trading Ring was smart, they saw something they didn't like after they picked him and got a veteran they thought could help. I have zero problem with that. You must be willing, and able, to do both ... successfully. With convinction. If you make the wrong judgements too much in terms of player personnel, you get fired. That's how it should be. But this "black and white, it's gotta be one way or the other" stuff ... no. Talk about boxing yourself in. Let me end this conversation with this. You believe in our managment and I am skeptical. So far this managment has not proven a damn thing to me. That's it in a nutshell.I want a winner. not a second place contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 This guy is having a good time this season, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 10:40 PM) This guy is having a good time this season, huh? There are soooooooo many posts worth quoting in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Since Reinsdorf and co bought the team the Dodgers, Cardinals, Orioles, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Twins, A's, Reds, Blue Jays, Braves, Yankees, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, and Red Sox have all won at least one World Series. Additionally the Brewers, Phillies, Padres, Giants and Indians have all appeared in at least one World Series. White Sox fans have earned the right to be both cynical and skeptical. The team is doing well because A Ozzie wanted to remake the team and B KW did a hell of a job getting him the players despite the financial constraints he has to work under. Now I will cross my fingers and hold my breath in the second half, hoping this is not just a mirage. Making the playoffs is great, but succeeding in them is like navigating a minefield, and having the best record in the regular season sometimes means diddly squat. This team has the best chance of any White Sox team since 1983 to actually WIN a World Series. I'm having heart palpations just typing this. White Sox fans have been battered and beaten over the years and have stayed loyal without getting all childish and syruppy like fans of that OTHER team on the North Side. Here's hoping for a great second half. 1959 was a long time ago, but it seems like yesterday. 1917 even I don't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 07:57 AM) Since Reinsdorf and co bought the team the Dodgers, Cardinals, Orioles, Tigers, Royals, Mets, Twins, A's, Reds, Blue Jays, Braves, Yankees, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, and Red Sox have all won at least one World Series. Additionally the Brewers, Phillies, Padres, Giants and Indians have all appeared in at least one World Series. White Sox fans have earned the right to be both cynical and skeptical. The team is doing well because A Ozzie wanted to remake the team and B KW did a hell of a job getting him the players despite the financial constraints he has to work under. Now I will cross my fingers and hold my breath in the second half, hoping this is not just a mirage. Making the playoffs is great, but succeeding in them is like navigating a minefield, and having the best record in the regular season sometimes means diddly squat. This team has the best chance of any White Sox team since 1983 to actually WIN a World Series. I'm having heart palpations just typing this. White Sox fans have been battered and beaten over the years and have stayed loyal without getting all childish and syruppy like fans of that OTHER team on the North Side. Here's hoping for a great second half. 1959 was a long time ago, but it seems like yesterday. 1917 even I don't remember. It's fine to have your doubts whether the sox will do anything in the offseason but what's ridiculous about this thread is that this guy went nuts in freakin November. NOVEMBER. Nobody makes moves in November, plus this guy made himself look and seem like a fair weather fan. As far as JR goes within the next 2 or so years our payroll is probably going to be around 90 mill, so he's putting money into the team, that argument is starting to get worn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 wow, what a self-fulfilling prophecy....it takes people spending money on the team and at the park to buy high-priced free agents, so lets all sit at home so we can b**** 5 months before the season is over when we have the best record in baseball....worst thread EVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 13, 2005 -> 10:40 PM) This guy is having a good time this season, huh? I know I am dense, I am not sure your point? What does going back a year have to do with now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 this thread rules. people were having heart attacks wondering if KW would make any moves. Guess he made some good ones, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Well, I know I'm not spending any money on the White Sox this year. We didn't get Pavano! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsox08 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Why didn't we get Randy, Pavano???? Damb we are too good.. This thread gives me a nice laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 They need 5 established starters, not just four and a prayer. That's been proven not to work. They need a veteran infielder and not go with 3 young guys who are largely unproven. Just my opinion here. They need a veteran catcher as a safety net for Davis. They need a power arm in the bullpen, a guy who can close games if Shingo somehow falls off. They need to not count on Carl Everett as an everyday RF. Maybe a few other small things but you get the drift. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They signed a 5th starter ... check. They signed Iguchi ... check. They signed AJ Pierzynski and later Chris Widger ... check They signed Hermanson ... check. They signed Jermaine Dye ... check. Wow, once in a while I AM right. Nice to know I didn't totally freak out on Novemberquickman30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 05:11 PM) They signed a 5th starter ... check. They signed Iguchi ... check. They signed AJ Pierzynski and later Chris Widger ... check They signed Hermanson ... check. They signed Jermaine Dye ... check. Wow, once in a while I AM right. Nice to know I didn't totally freak out on Novemberquickman30th. Your on shaky ground calling Hermanson a power arm but the rest is golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 10:11 PM) They signed a 5th starter ... check. They signed Iguchi ... check. They signed AJ Pierzynski and later Chris Widger ... check They signed Hermanson ... check. They signed Jermaine Dye ... check. Wow, once in a while I AM right. Nice to know I didn't totally freak out on Novemberquickman30th. We need a back-patting smilie for Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 We need a back-patting smilie for Jim. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzo2733 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 QUOTE(marsh @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) Your on shaky ground calling Hermanson a power arm but the rest is golden. That's what I was thinking. Maybe calling Iguchi not unproven too. But just nitpicking here. I have to admit I was one of those people who was really down before the season. I had my share of doomsday, woe is me type posts when I first joined in December. It's nice to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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